Gun to my head predictions...

[RF2044]

Duh

Then why did you respond? Confirming a point I was already making seems unnecessarily... pointless.

 

[RF2044]

I don't get an NBA team unless its Atlanta or Boston with 3 first round picks giving this kid a promise without seeing him in the 5 on 5.

I mean Malachi hasn't shown he can be a man to man defender. In the 5 on 5 atleast NBA teams could see him guard NBA caliber draft picks.
I mean its obvious he is gone but he had to be given a promise not to 5 on 5.

I could see Boston. Three first round picks, need a 2.

 

[Melancer46]

I don't get an NBA team unless its Atlanta or Boston with 3 first round picks giving this kid a promise without seeing him in the 5 on 5.

I mean Malachi hasn't shown he can be a man to man defender. In the 5 on 5 atleast NBA teams could see him guard NBA caliber draft picks.
I mean its obvious he is gone but he had to be given a promise not to 5 on 5.

Not necessarily. This reminds me of when Dion refused to work out for anyone and suddenly he started flying up draft boards as a result because everyone assumed it meant that he received a promise. Skipping the 5 on 5 generates more interest in him because it makes other teams think "Interesting; one of the other teams out there already loves him...we need to take a closer look".

At any rate, I'm hoping it isn't my team that's showing a lot of interest in him despite Milwaukee's need for shooting. I think he has some potential, but I don't really like him as a prospect.

In terms of Syracuse, I understand that losing his 3 point shooting ability could be a big deal, and it's a shame that we'll never get to see what he could have been for Syracuse, but it's not as if he was an efficient scorer, and he didn't really do anything else for us besides score. I don't think the freshman version of him is as irreplaceable as others believe and we simply don't know how much better if any the sophomore version of him would be.

 

[Briancuse]

Why would you root for one of our players to do poorly?

Who says I am rooting for him to do poorly?

 

[Knicks411]

I could see Boston. Three first round picks, need a 2.

Side note, Boston needs to start consolidating assets, right? They have like 5 second round picks plus the 3 first rounders.

 

[Knicks411]

Who says I am rooting for him to do poorly?

Aren't you hoping he does poorly at the combine so he comes back?

 

[Briancuse]

Aren't you hoping he does poorly at the combine so he comes back?

I am hoping that he is told he could use another year in school, thats not outright rooting for him to do poorly.

 

[Briancuse]

How would you enforce a two year college minimum? Suppose the player doesn't maintain high enough gpa to remain eligible and/or doesn't go to class, etc. Would they just have to sit ? I'm not disagreeing with the idea, just wondering how it would work if these types of issues arose.

Yes it would be on the player to do well in school, so they can remain eligible, just like they do in every other sport.

 

[RF2044]

Side note, Boston needs to start consolidating assets, right? They have like 5 second round picks plus the 3 first rounders.

Would think so. They have a roster of viable talent, but no transcendent star. They have 3 first rounders [and multiple second rounders] this year, two more first rounders next year.

At some point, they have to package some of this for not just players, but players who can get them to the next level. You obviously aren't expecting to draft those guys at #11 / #18 this year [possibly in the lottery, if they get into the top grouping.

 

[manleyzoo]

Then why did you respond? Confirming a point I was already making seems unnecessarily... pointless.

Your point was people don't understand the slot money. My point was they do. Your counter point was my confirming your point...that's a duh.

 

[Alsacs]

Not necessarily. This reminds me of when Dion refused to work out for anyone and suddenly he started flying up draft boards as a result because everyone assumed it meant that he received a promise. Skipping the 5 on 5 generates more interest in him because it makes other teams think "Interesting; one of the other teams out there already loves him...we need to take a closer look".

At any rate, I'm hoping it isn't my team that's showing a lot of interest in him despite Milwaukee's need for shooting. I think he has some potential, but I don't really like him as a prospect.

In terms of Syracuse, I understand that losing his 3 point shooting ability could be a big deal, and it's a shame that we'll never get to see what he could have been for Syracuse, but it's not as if he was an efficient scorer, and he didn't really do anything else for us besides score. I don't think the freshman version of him is as irreplaceable as others believe and we simply don't know how much better if any the sophomore version of him would be.

Dion was a lottery pick though. Most lottery picks don't do the 5 on 5 they just do interviews and tests.

Malachi is acting like a lottery pick or person with a promise skipping the 5 on 5 workouts. As I said he needs to show he can be a man to man defender. He played out of position as a Freshman in a zone.
I hope the kid succeeds in the NBA to help himself and our NBA brand but I don't want my team the Celtics to waste a pick on him.
They just drafted somebody like RJ Hunter last year and I like Hunter better as a prospect.

 

[Briancuse]

Dion was a lottery pick though. Most lottery picks don't do the 5 on 5 they just do interviews and tests.

Malachi is acting like a lottery pick or person with a promise skipping the 5 on 5 workouts. As I said he needs to show he can be a man to man defender. He played out of position as a Freshman in a zone.
I hope the kid succeeds in the NBA to help himself and our NBA brand but I don't want my team the Celtics to waste a pick on him.
They just drafted somebody like RJ Hunter last year and I like Hunter better as a prospect.

I have the feeling that Malachi isn't getting great advice from whoever is advising him on the process.

 

[Alsacs]

Side note, Boston needs to start consolidating assets, right? They have like 5 second round picks plus the 3 first rounders.

Celtics will trade atleast 3 2nd round picks or take a few stash players.

That 31st pick will have a lot of value I think.

Boston is targeting Jimmy Butler with their Brooklyn Draft pick and other assets from what I have heard.

 

[RF2044]

Your point was people don't understand the slot money. My point was they do. Your counter point was my confirming your point...that's a duh.

No, my point was people who don't understand the slot money always say "take the money" without recognizing the opportunity cost if one is drafted late in the first round or slips to the second round. When that happens, a player could make far less over three years even than a player who waits a year and improves their draft position could make in only two years. So staying and improving draft position even if it means temporarily foregoing money isn't always a bad strategy. Simple math, easy to calculate as a function of knowing what the slotted salaries all are.

Your response was that there is a percentage of variance that teams are able to negotiate above / below the salary slot.

My response was--so what? That's true of all teams across all the salary slots, so it is neither a significant advantage nor a disadvantage in terms of the numbers shifting.

Your follow up: "Duh."

Duh, indeed--seeing as how you mischaracterized my original position, if what's quoted above was your interpretation.

 

[Knicks411]

Would think so. They have a roster of viable talent, but no transcendent star. They have 3 first rounders [and multiple second rounders] this year, two more first rounders next year.

At some point, they have to package some of this for not just players, but players who can get them to the next level. You obviously aren't expecting to draft those guys at #11 / #18 this year [possibly in the lottery, if they get into the top grouping.

As Alsacs mentions, I'm sure they'll make a run at Jimmy Butler if he's really out there. Maybe Love? Going to have to dangle at least one of the Nets picks I would think if you're going to make that big splash.

 

[cuseguy]

Dude, if you're going to be a college ball fan, you have to wrap your head around this: it's about the kids - it's not about us. We should root for our guys to succeed at the next level - regardless of how long they are here. Kid probably just got a guarantee that he's going to be multi-millionaire in a few weeks. Let's be happy for him.

For me, it's become more about rooting for the uniform.

Most of the good players don't stick around long enough for me to build up any kind of emotional attachment. Notice I said most.


I think that's why the phrase "Next" has become most appropriate.

 

[reedny]

How would you enforce a two year college minimum? Suppose the player doesn't maintain high enough gpa to remain eligible and/or doesn't go to class, etc. Would they just have to sit ? I'm not disagreeing with the idea, just wondering how it would work if these types of issues arose.

Or they could just go to UK, and not worry about it.

 

[rrlbees]

I have the feeling that Malachi isn't getting great advice from whoever is advising him on the process.

If the NBA is telling him he doesn't have to do 5 on 5, then it must be an NBA team giving him advice.

 

[two3zone]

Why is just being a first round pick good enough?

Because you're going to get paid a guaranteed amount by just signing your name. Even if there is a 90% chance you can improve your stock there is still a 10% chance that you never get a check, to some that risk isn't worth it.

 

[reedny]

If the NBA is telling him he doesn't have to do 5 on 5, then it must be an NBA team giving him advice.

A promise would explain the 5/5 opt-out and his recent notice to staff that he's not returning.

 

[RF2044]

For me, it's become more about rooting for the uniform.

Most of the good players don't stick around long enough for me to build up any kind of emotional attachment. Notice I said most.


I think that's why the phrase "Next" has become most appropriate.

I'll add that it is frustrating to have the type of one-and-dones who don't seem to be program changers. I know, I know--we don't make the final four without Mali going off against UVa. Great game, it cements his legacy here no matter what. But otherwise, he was a semi-inconsistent wing who had his moments and also had lengthy stretches of inconsistency. He wasn't a transcendent talent, which is why so many are frustrated that he's bailing.

When LSU lands Ben Simmons, they know 100% that he's gone after one year, and they bring him in anyway understanding that, hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. At UK, they bring in a bunch of kids expecting to be one and done, knowing that they'll either excel, or they'll all be gone and replaced with the next crop who will hopefully do better.

We get guys like McCullough and Richardson and Donte Greene. Very solid prospects, very good players with lots of potential, but kids that don't take things to the next level [Ennis can be thrown into this mix, as well]. And then they're gone before we get the full benefit of having them come here in the first place.**




**I know that there will be someone who counters the above by saying that we DID "catch lightning in a bottle" from Richardson with the final four appearance. It's debatable, IMO, given that with him returning next year, we might be another #1 seed / final four contender. Winning that game was huge, and no doubt, without those 9 minutes of him being en fuego, we don't come back from that big deficit against UVa.

 

[longtimefan]

Malachi returns: 10%
Yurtseven commits: 85%
Mystery situation evolves: 15%
T Thompson wears Orange: 75%
Q Green wears Orange: 75%
Diallo reclassifies: 1%
Diallo wears Orange: 30%

What number did you have on Coyle?

 

[Knicks411]

I'll add that it is frustrating to have the type of one-and-dones who don't seem to be program changers. I know, I know--we don't make the final four without Mali going off against UVa. Great game, it cements his legacy here no matter what. But otherwise, he was a semi-inconsistent wing who had his moments and also had lengthy stretches of inconsistency. He wasn't a transcendent talent, which is why so many are frustrated that he's bailing.

When LSU lands Ben Simmons, they know 100% that he's gone after one year, and they bring him in anyway understanding that, hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. At UK, they bring in a bunch of kids expecting to be one and done, knowing that they'll either excel, or they'll all be gone and replaced with the next crop who will hopefully do better.

We get guys like McCullough and Richardson and Donte Greene. Very solid prospects, very good players with lots of potential, but kids that don't take things to the next level [Ennis can be thrown into this mix, as well]. And then they're gone before we get the full benefit of having them come here in the first place.**




**I know that there will be someone who counters the above by saying that we DID "catch lightning in a bottle" from Richardson with the final four appearance. It's debatable, IMO, given that with him returning next year, we might be another #1 seed / final four contender. Winning that game was huge, and no doubt, without those 9 minutes of him being en fuego, we don't come back from that big deficit against UVa.

Which I guess is kind of the problem of recruiting at the level we do. We usually aren't getting the elite of the elite, the guys who you know are one and dones. But we will get the next level guys, the guys who are often too good to be the 3 or 4 year guys, but usually (this year an exception I guess) aren't the guys who can take you to the final four on their back.

 

[stuckinbig11]

He wasn't all-ACC is a very good point. But these teams draft players based on "potential" as well as history. The UVA game was spectacular on a big stage. It counts.

I wish Mali all the best, but he did not show greatness much of the time. I once scored 43 points in a game in an Upstate Medical Center league (that did have some good players). If only an NBA scout had been there. I was in a zone for 32 minutes, not just 6 like Mali.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We recruit a bunch of guys ranked 20-50. They aren't good enough to necessarily carry a team as freshman or sophomores, but they're good enough to be mid to late first rounders as freshman or sophomores. Our teams are good, but they are a tad below elite because we don't have matured talent or we don't have a program changing one and done guys. It's pretty much the same cycle we've been stuck in the last 5 years.