Gun to my head predictions...

[CaptainJ]

As I said, the point of NBA draft position had been made ad nauseum, which you apparently agree with--"numerous past threads about NBA draft position." I don't recall anything being said about board content arbiter, cosmic significance, insight drip, smarmy or pedantic. If you're going to defend your posts, then defend them. If you can't, then don't.

I gave you a like for the use of that word(I hadn't followed the debate the post refers to). I think the only one to wrest the title of arbiter on here is my boy OttoInGrotto (and later myself, from his inspiration). However, our arbitrations were very defined and limited in their scope, and left open to public scrutiny.

 

[CaptainJ]

Malachi returns: 10%
Yurtseven commits: 85%
Mystery situation evolves: 15%
T Thompson wears Orange: 75%
Q Green wears Orange: 75%
Diallo reclassifies: 1%
Diallo wears Orange: 30%

Jake, I find your post(thread title) very disturbing.

Even with those percentages weighed against the team's current situation, I don't think you should have a gun against your head.

Even if things are bleak and seem devoid of hope in terms of reaching the level of excellence some of us desire, there are more pleasant ways to go. (I might get ***ned for posting them, but I am compassionate, and have put a decent amount of thought into it, so you can PM me if you want to know. Aldous Huxley would be one example). That aside, I prefer to talk you down instead.

 

[manleyzoo]

Again, who died and left you in charge of board content? Last time I checked, this was a message board. There's no need to "defend" any post I've made in this thread. Rather than responding to your smarmy tone in kind, I DID attempt to explain the post, to provide context that your original interpretation clearly lacked. Remember this?

Unfortunately, said context was ignored by you. Probably because--as previously described--you seemed hell bent on being argumentative and condescending to tell others what topics are acceptable for discussion.

Draft position HAS been discussed "ad nauseum" [your word], across many threads. And yet, numerous posters seem to not grasp nor integrate what the different salaries mean relative to being drafted higher into their perspectives. Not all, but some [this is evident when I see responses that discount the opportunity cost of being drafted in the second round or not being drafted at all in relation to a prospect improving their draft position by returning]. Hence, why I said: "...I don't think SOME understand how the slotted NBA draft salaries work in terms of outcomes for the players."

Whether you feel that this sentence yields earth shattering insight or has been discussed prior to this thread really doesn't matter much to me at all.

All clear now?

So you're saying your whole premise totters on the word "some." Hmm, now I get it.

 

[CaptainJ]

So you're saying your whole premise totters on the word "some." Hmm, now I get it.

Is it as bad as a sitting President who says "it depends on your definition of the word 'is'"? I dont mean that to be partisan at all, it's just part of the reality this society resides in at present and has for some time.

My antics aside, I hope the 2 of you can come to terms. You're good posters, good people, misunderstandings happen from time to time. Let's not pretend the other guy is a Duke/Kentucky/Georgetown fan, or a Canadian or something.

 

[Dave85]

Dude, if you're going to be a college ball fan, you have to wrap your head around this: it's about the kids - it's not about us. We should root for our guys to succeed at the next level - regardless of how long they are here.

Kid probably just got a guarantee that he's going to be multi-millionaire in a few weeks. Let's be happy for him.

Fans are important to every sport. Fans create the money base.

 

[Dave85]

Wasn't the NBA in talks about requiring college players to stay 2 years? Whatever happened to those rumors. Even one additional year would be a godsend. Until then... we should keep this handy when we get bent over...

I already paid my taxes once this year.

 

[Dave85]

Again, who died and left you in charge of board content? Last time I checked, this was a message board. There's no need to "defend" any post I've made in this thread. Rather than responding to your smarmy tone in kind, I DID attempt to explain the post, to provide context that your original interpretation clearly lacked. Remember this?

Unfortunately, said context was ignored by you. Probably because--as previously described--you seemed hell bent on being argumentative and condescending to tell others what topics are acceptable for discussion.

Draft position HAS been discussed "ad nauseum" [your word], across many threads. And yet, numerous posters seem to not grasp nor integrate what the different salaries mean relative to being drafted higher into their perspectives. Not all, but some [this is evident when I see responses that discount the opportunity cost of being drafted in the second round or not being drafted at all in relation to a prospect improving their draft position by returning]. Hence, why I said: "...I don't think SOME understand how the slotted NBA draft salaries work in terms of outcomes for the players."

Whether you feel that this sentence yields earth shattering insight or has been discussed prior to this thread really doesn't matter much to me at all.

All clear now?

Yes, I think so. Two questions. What determines a player's salary in the NBA? And what really does matter to you?

 

[RF2044]

So you're saying your whole premise totters on the word "some." Hmm, now I get it.

Nope. Wrong again.

 

[orangenirvana]

He was our 2nd best player this year behind Michael Gbinije and I hope he makes it the NBA.

Was he really, though?

 

[Knicks411]

PS--By the way, just to avoid any future confusion, I don't that that returning to school to improve draft position is a strategy that will work universally for all players. Some very good collegiate players just don't have an NBA skill [see: Fair, CJ]. Others have limited upside that will only get exposed by returning to school, and thus strike while the iron is hot [see: Ennis, Tyler]. But in some cases, a case can easily be made that returning would benefit their draft position [see: Grant, Jerami and McCullough, Chris and potentially Richardson, Malichi].

There are other relevant factors, as well--the potential for injury, family circumstances, academics, etc. Hence, why we have a message board to debate issues such as these.

Also, in the case of Malachi, we don't even know what his draft position is right now! Which makes it even more difficult to determine if another year in school would improve it or not.

Though I think if we're talking about a guy who will maybe go #20 (in what seems to be the best case scenario) then I think you can make a pretty compelling argument another year in school is going to help his draft stock.

 

[Alsacs]

Was he really, though?

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I could see an argument for Lydon because of his defense and shot making ability.
Lydon's PER was 20.2
Richardson's PER was 13.8
Cooney's PER was 13.7
Roberson's PER was 18.2 but he doesn't shoot the ball enough. His rebounding and shooting percentage are great.

I would say in IMO though our best players last year were 1. Gbinije. 2. Richardson 3. Lydon 4. Cooney 5. Roberson.

 

[Knicks411]

not sure of your point. reynolds was BE-ROY and the very 1ST AP not to be selected. how many college players (uninjured) who didn't make at least conference honorable mention in their leagues have been selected in the first 2 round of the NBA draft ?
that's gotta be a very short list and very long odds.

I was curious; just checked the last draft.

Justice Winslow went 10th, didn't make all ACC.
Myles Turner snuck on the third team Big 12 (in a smaller league), he went 11th last year.
Trey Lyles went one spot later, didn't make all SEC.
Kelly Oubre went 15th, didn't make all Big 12.

That was the top 20, didn't feel like doing anymore.

 

[Alsacs]

Also, in the case of Malachi, we don't even know what his draft position is right now! Which makes it even more difficult to determine if another year in school would improve it or not.

Though I think if we're talking about a guy who will maybe go #20 (in what seems to be the best case scenario) then I think you can make a pretty compelling argument another year in school is going to help his draft stock.

Chad Ford has him as his 20th best prospect. So he could go anywhere from late lottery 14th all the way to 30th.

Now I honestly don't think this kid would really ever be a top 10 draft pick unless he takes a giant leap so he might as well just go and get paid to develop. I still really haven't found a good NBA comp for the kid.

I don't think another year of college really helps him his NBA game it just gives him another year to physically develop and work on consistency issues. Playing at the top of the zone wouldn't help his NBA defense and he would be the number 1 option and would be the focus of the opposing defenses. Malachi is never going to be a number 1 option in the NBA so it wouldn't prepare for that goal. He is going like Ennis is going to protect his brand and strike while he is hot.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Chad Ford has him as his 20th best prospect. So he could go anywhere from late lottery 14th all the way to 30th.

Now I honestly don't think this kid would really ever be a top 10 draft pick unless he takes a giant leap so he might as well just go and get paid to develop. I still really haven't found a good NBA comp for the kid.

I don't think another year of college really helps him his NBA game it just gives him another year to physically develop and work on consistency issues. Playing at the top of the zone wouldn't help his NBA defense and he would be the number 1 option and would be the focus of the opposing defenses. Malachi is never going to be a number 1 option in the NBA so it wouldn't prepare for that goal. He is going like Ennis is going to protect his brand and strike while he is hot.

JR Smith

 

[Alsacs]

I was curious; just checked the last draft.

Justice Winslow went 10th, didn't make all ACC.
Myles Turner snuck on the third team Big 12 (in a smaller league), he went 11th last year.
Trey Lyles went one spot later, didn't make all SEC.
Kelly Oubre went 15th, didn't make all Big 12.

That was the top 20, didn't feel like doing anymore.

Good work.

I would say Winslow was way more consistent than Richardson. Turner was a higher rated recruit and wasn't staying 2 years when he started at Texas.

Lyles was stuck on a team with Karl Anthony-Towns and Wily Cauley-Stein playing the majority of the PF/C minutes.

Oubre showed not much at Kansas so I guess he was taken because of his size but Richardson was better than him this year.

 

[jgeorge322]

There is one thing to consider here. Maybe, just maybe, Mal is being really smart. He knows the 5-5 means your fighting for round 2 spots. So, if you are going to market yourself as a first rounder, you better act like one. Its comparable to dressing appropriately for a job interview.

Mal has not hired an agent. He probably feels the first round guarantee is going to be made based on his drills and personal workouts. Therefore, I wouldnt read too much into the 5-5 stuff. There is more risk than reward there.

As i said two weeks ago and got shot down by dasher and others, he wants the nba badly (who can blame him). Just read his instagram and twitter. Thats from his own mouth. It still remains to be seen if he will go round 1 however and that really is the key IMHO. But as i said before, i think hes a high upside late first rounder so i dont expect him back.

 

[Alsacs]

JR Smith

I honestly thought of JR Smith before saying Rodney Hood but I think Smith is such a dink it would be unfair to Malachi.
Malachi is a good kid unlike JR Smith who can be very dumb on the court.

 

[patcuse]

Was he really, though?

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Those stats are based on the whole year should only be looking at the 2nd half of the Virgina game.

 

[RF2044]

Also, in the case of Malachi, we don't even know what his draft position is right now! Which makes it even more difficult to determine if another year in school would improve it or not.

Though I think if we're talking about a guy who will maybe go #20 (in what seems to be the best case scenario) then I think you can make a pretty compelling argument another year in school is going to help his draft stock.

Considering I believe that his best case scenario is a much lower draft spot than #20, I agree across the board.

Very strange that Chad Ford is the only one who has him in this range. I'm thinking his BCS is in the Greene / McCullough range, with a more realistic landing spot in the Grant / Christmas range.

 

[Knicks411]

Considering I believe that his best case scenario is a much lower draft spot than #20, I agree across the board.

Very strange that Chad Ford is the only one who has him in this range. I'm thinking his BCS is in the Greene / McCullough range, with a more realistic landing spot in the Grant / Christmas range.

Just based off everything I'm reading, #20 sounds extremely generous, but I wanted to be optimistic for the sake of the argument.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Considering I believe that his best case scenario is a much lower draft spot than #20, I agree across the board.

Very strange that Chad Ford is the only one who has him in this range. I'm thinking his BCS is in the Greene / McCullough range, with a more realistic landing spot in the Grant / Christmas range.

I'm curious to pull out the posts about Dion Waiters and his draft odyssey. I'm sure no one had him going as high as #4. IIRC we were all very surprised. I'm not saying Malachi is going to go that high but I can see what the scouts like about him. He just might go higher than people expect.

 

[Alsacs]

Considering I believe that his best case scenario is a much lower draft spot than #20, I agree across the board.

Very strange that Chad Ford is the only one who has him in this range. I'm thinking his BCS is in the Greene / McCullough range, with a more realistic landing spot in the Grant / Christmas range.

See I agree with you but it makes no sense for Malachi to leave unless he has a promise in the first round.
McCullough had a promise from the Nets at 29.

Malachi has to have a promise to do this. The good thing is he still hasn't signed with an agent even though it is obvious he probably has the agent picked out.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I don't think Malachi is skipping the 5v5 without input from NBA teams. It's not a con to improve his draft status.

 

[rrlbees]

There is one thing to consider here. Maybe, just maybe, Mal is being really smart. He knows the 5-5 means your fighting for round 2 spots. So, if you are going to market yourself as a first rounder, you better act like one. Its comparable to dressing appropriately for a job interview.

From the sound of things the NBA did not require him to participate in the 5v5. That's why Giovany and Francis think that's good news for him and must have a promise.

 

[SC Orange]

From the sound of things the NBA did not require him to participate in the 5v5. That's why Giovany and Francis think that's good news for him and must have a promise.

Is it the NBA requiring players or the players choice do to the advice of individual teams? In the end the player always has the option correct?

I am not trying to get at anything, but a greater understanding of the process.