Hate To Be That Guy, But...

[Symphony Steve]

...we were initially told that the reason for the general lack of early commits was b/c we had fewer available scholies this cycle and that we were being much more selective as a result.

We've now had several commits in the last couple of weeks. I don't in any way mean to be negative about those who have committed, always appreciate it when someone commits to the 'Cuse.

But the recruits we've signed don't scream 'super selective' to me. And we HAVE offered a lot of top-notch targets.

I'm ready to be proven wrong (again). And I DO trust Dino. But our class so far at least suggests that perhaps we've regrouped a bit when it comes to our targets. Not trying to be negative, but I'd like to get a sense from those more knowledgeable than me as to how they see our recruiting so far this cycle.

 

[DocFlanders]

Sorry bro, you just became that guy...

 

[P Vasiloff]

Syracuse just had young Mr. Nunn verbally commit and he had offers from the who's who of college football. Those who have committed thus far are very very good gets. What we should all hope for is that they stay committed to Syracuse and the remaining big fish that are to this point remain uncommitted chose Syracuse.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Gotta trust camp offers.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Mr. Nunn had great offers. The others, not so much. You say the commits 'are very very good gets'. Not based on their offers. Which admittedly isn't everything. But it also doesn't follow the meme of 'selectivity' that we were fed.

I getcha, Otto. But we've both been through cycles where we've talked about trusting the coaches' decisions. Turns out they weren't all worthy of the trust we placed in them. Over time, I've become more skeptical. Hope it's not healthy skepticism.

 

[sdhall01]

I think all of our commits, other than Luke Benson and Geoffrey, have other power 5 offers. Benson and Geoffrey were camp offers, so I’m not worried about it.

 

[chugg21]

Syracuse just had young Mr. Nunn verbally commit and he had offers from the who's who of college football. Those who have committed thus far are very very good gets. What we should all hope for is that they stay committed to Syracuse and the remaining big fish that are to this point remain uncommitted chose Syracuse.

Uh huh.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Don't wish to belabor the point. Red had no other Power 5 offers. Rondi had one-Rutgers.

OK, I've belabored it. I just would like to see some of the real recruitniks tell me that I'm off-base, and tell me why.

 

[PAcuse]

Camp offers > any recruiting website.
Our coaching staff is better then any recruiting site.
Plus tons of kids don't catch the eye of the recruiting sites until after then pick up a ton of offers or commit to a P5 school.

 

[MSOrange]

Mr. Nunn had great offers. The others, not so much. You say the commits 'are very very good gets'. Not based on their offers. Which admittedly isn't everything. But it also doesn't follow the meme of 'selectivity' that we were fed.

I getcha, Otto. But we've both been through cycles where we've talked about trusting the coaches' decisions. Turns out they weren't all worthy of the trust we placed in them. Over time, I've become more skeptical. Hope it's not healthy skepticism.

I think it's a very valid discussion point and it's not like you have a history of being constantly negative . I trust Dino but that doesn't mean I don't wish our commits had attracted the interest of other Power 5 programs.

 

[Orijinal]

...we were initially told that the reason for the general lack of early commits was b/c we had fewer available scholies this cycle and that we were being much more selective as a result.

We've now had several commits in the last couple of weeks. I don't in any way mean to be negative about those who have committed, always appreciate it when someone commits to the 'Cuse.

But the recruits we've signed don't scream 'super selective' to me. And we HAVE offered a lot of top-notch targets.

I'm ready to be proven wrong (again). And I DO trust Dino. But our class so far at least suggests that perhaps we've regrouped a bit when it comes to our targets. Not trying to be negative, but I'd like to get a sense from those more knowledgeable than me as to how they see our recruiting so far this cycle.

Your first problem was you bought the company line that Babers and company were sitting back to be selective. That was never the case. That will never be until we bring in a couple top 25 classes. You don't get a chance to sit back and be selective coming off back to back 4-8 seasons.

HOWEVER, these are quality commits. Nunn is an example. C Jackson is an example. Cole is an example. You don't accept Plan B recruits in June when you have until the first week of February to recruit and fill out your class.

If these coaches saw them in camp, these guys will contribute

 

[kcsu]

Camp offers are as good as it gets. You have the entire staff getting a read.

 

[TheCusian]

Being selective can mean:

A) waiting on a big name with lots of offers (see: Nunn)

B) waiting till camp churns something up to good to pass up (kid from Canada, super smart super fast big kid from PA)

C) not taking b listers you’ve seen and thought hmmm - or b listers you’ve not seen and are not completely sold on

 

[721Comstock]

Psst! You’re that guy.

 

[PhatOrange]

Mr. Nunn had great offers. The others, not so much. You say the commits 'are very very good gets'. Not based on their offers. Which admittedly isn't everything. But it also doesn't follow the meme of 'selectivity' that we were fed.

I getcha, Otto. But we've both been through cycles where we've talked about trusting the coaches' decisions. Turns out they weren't all worthy of the trust we placed in them. Over time, I've become more skeptical. Hope it's not healthy skepticism.

2 or 3 of the 7 kids don’t have great offers. It’s june. Seems pretty normal. I think Jackson, Nunn, and Cole have good offers. I can make a case for Rondi, Red and the Canadian. I can only assume benson kid killed it at camp which is a good thing; same as Red and the Canadian. Oakdale st Thomas more and CB West are traditional power house Hs programs.

 

[OrangeDW]

I hear you. But it’s so early that I’m going to be positive and assume these are guys the staff really, really likes.

They’ve gotten the highest ranked QB and OL I can remember us getting in 20 years, plus stud transfers from Oklahoma and Mich. St., so they’ve got the benefit of the doubt from me at this point.

 

[TheCusian]

I hear you. But it’s so early that I’m going to be positive and assume these are guys the staff really, really likes.

They’ve gotten the highest ranked QB and OL I can remember us getting in 20 years, plus stud transfers from Oklahoma and Mich. St., so they’ve got the benefit of the doubt from me at this point.

This x 1000

 

[Ish88888]

Your first problem was you bought the company line that Babers and company were sitting back to be selective. That was never the case. That will never be until we bring in a couple top 25 classes. You don't get a chance to sit back and be selective coming off back to back 4-8 seasons.

HOWEVER, these are quality commits. Nunn is an example. C Jackson is an example. Cole is an example. You don't accept Plan B recruits in June when you have until the first week of February to recruit and fill out your class.

If these coaches saw them in camp, these guys will contribute

Ok, i will bite, but are we looking for contributors or impact players? I agree whole heartedly that camp offers carry more weight as I trust the in person evaluation ability of our staff. That said, i see how some, including me would like other P5 staffs having the same thoughts. I get it.

 

[leftytg]

Speaking in generalities here:

Big, fast, and productive = 4*/5* and lots of offers (they are obvious).

For many reasons, Syracuse's place in the recruiting hierarchy is such that it isn't going to pull loads of 4*/5* recruits.

Being in Syracuse's position, of big, fast, and productive - you can get two of the three, but not all three.

Shafer so prioritized productive and minimized big, but also too often compromised on fast.

Dino is dialed in on fast but also locks in on big. That means you gotta give on productive. This isn't exclusive, and to be sure some of the recruits are all three (and those are usually big recruiting wins over bigger schools, and we love Dino for it).

These camp commits seem to be big and fast, but for a variety of reasons aren't productive yet (i.e. from Canada, or the TE kid who had like 300 yards receiving last season).

Given the landscape, I'm 100% on board with taking chances on kids who are big and fast but haven't been ultra productive (yet!) in high school. Some kids are late bloomers. Some kids are in systems that are bad fits. Some kids just have bad coaching and haven't learned good technique. Some kids have untalented teammates and are gameplanned around to a crazy degree. It could be any number of things. To be fair, it could also be because the kid is a space cadet, or lacks the drive/focus/whatever that allows one to translate athletic ability to success on the field.

I'll take the raw big and fast kid over the small and slow, but high motor well coached kid who is ultra productive. Shafer's camp offers often sucked because, so far as I could tell, he was overly influenced by the hard nosed, gritty kind of kid that coaches love and naively believed that the small, slow, but gritty kid with heart would win in the end. College football isn't a Disney movie, and I'm glad Dino seems to value the right things.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Speaking in generalities here:

Big, fast, and productive = 4*/5* and lots of offers (they are obvious).

For many reasons, Syracuse's place in the recruiting hierarchy is such that it isn't going to pull loads of 4*/5* recruits.

Being in Syracuse's position, of big, fast, and productive - you can get two of the three, but not all three.

Shafer so prioritized productive and minimized big, but also too often compromised on fast.

Dino is dialed in on fast but also locks in on big. That means you gotta give on productive. This isn't exclusive, and to be sure some of the recruits are all three (and those are usually big recruiting wins over bigger schools, and we love Dino for it).

These camp commits seem to be big and fast, but for a variety of reasons aren't productive yet (i.e. from Canada, or the TE kid who had like 300 yards receiving last season).

Given the landscape, I'm 100% on board with taking chances on kids who are big and fast but haven't been ultra productive (yet!) in high school. Some kids are late bloomers. Some kids are in systems that are bad fits. Some kids just have bad coaching and haven't learned good technique. Some kids have untalented teammates and are gameplanned around to a crazy degree. It could be any number of things. To be fair, it could also be because the kid is a space cadet, or lacks the drive/focus/whatever that allows one to translate athletic ability to success on the field.

I'll take the raw big and fast kid over the small and slow, but high motor well coached kid who is ultra productive. Shafer's camp offers often sucked because, so far as I could tell, he was overly influenced by the hard nosed, gritty kind of kid that coaches love and naively believed that the small, slow, but gritty kid with heart would win in the end. College football isn't a Disney movie, and I'm glad Dino seems to value the right things.

This is a pretty interesting take.

 

[OrangeDW]

This is a pretty interesting take.

I read it twice. I like it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Syracuse recruiting is syracuse recruiting. All these kids are exactly the type of kids we will continue to recruit and have in the past. It comes down to the staffs ability to develop this raw talent.

I see winning improving things some but not what most think it will. I see no path for top 25 recruiting classes at Syracuse anytime in the foreseeable future regardless of staff or record. Facilities will never be a huge sell and I’m Ok with that.

We do this dance every year. We will always have 30%-40% or so of developmental prospects here. The bigger recruits I am sure they are waiting on. Always like the camp kids, this I know

 

[CuseLegacy]

Class of 2019 - Recruits and Offers

Total 2019 Commits (7)

Courtney Jackson- WR (Verbal)
Rivals Rating at Commit Date ** 4/27/18; Current Rating 4/27/18 **
Major (6)- SU, WVU, BC, Kentucky, Northwestern, Baylor
Mid Major (12) - Akron, Army, BGSU, Buffalo, CMU, ECU, EMU, Howard, Memphis, Robert Morris, Temple, Toledo
Class of 2019 - WR Courtney Jackson (PA) COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE


Joe Rondi- DT (Verbal)
Rivals Rating at Commit Date *** 6/13/18; Current Rating 6/13/18 ***
Major (2)- SU, Rutgers
Mid Major (4) Buffalo, Cincinnati, Kent St, Temple
Class of 2019 - DT Joe Rondi (NJ) COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE

Anthony Red- OT (Verbal)
Rivals Rating at Commit Date NR 6/17/18; Current Rating 6/16/18 NR
Major (1) SU
Mid Major (3) Buffalo, Temple, UMass
Class of 2019 - OL Anthony Red Jr (CT) COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE

Geoffrey Cantin-Arku -LB (Verbal)
Rivals Rating at Commit Date NR 6/22/18; Current Rating 6/22/18 NR
Major (1) SU
Class of 2019 - LB Geoffrey Cantin (QC) COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE


Cornelius Nunn -S (Verbal)
Rivals Rating at Commit Date ***6/23/18; Current Rating 6/23/18 ***
Major (14) SU, Alabama, Auburn, BC, Baylor, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Miami, Nebraska, NC St, Oklahoma, Pitt, Tenn
Mid Major (11) BGSU, Buffalo, Cincy, FAMU, FIU, FAU, Marshall, UMass, USF, Southern Miss, UAB
Class of 2019 - S Cornelius Nunn Jr (FL) COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE

Adrian Cole-CB (Verbal)
Rivals Rating at Commit Date NR 6/23/18; Current Rating 6/23/18 NR
Major (5) SU, Kansas, Kansas St, Pitt, Duke
Mid Major (6) BGSU, Buffalo, FAU, Marshall, USF, Toledo
Class of 2019 - CB Adrian Cole (FL) COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE

Luke Benson -TE (Verbal)
Rivals Rating at Commit Date NR 6/24/18; Current Rating 6/24/18 NR
Major (1) SU
Mid Major (21) Army, Brown, Bucknell, Colgate, Columbia, Delaware, Fordham, Harvard, Holy Cross, Indiana St, JMU, Lafayette, Monmouth, Penn, Princeton, Richmond, Temple, Towson, Villanova, Yale, YSU
Class of 2019 - TE/DE Luke Benson (PA) COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE


These are just the offers listed on Rivals.

 

[CuseLegacy]

...we were initially told that the reason for the general lack of early commits was b/c we had fewer available scholies this cycle and that we were being much more selective as a result.

We've now had several commits in the last couple of weeks. I don't in any way mean to be negative about those who have committed, always appreciate it when someone commits to the 'Cuse.

But the recruits we've signed don't scream 'super selective' to me. And we HAVE offered a lot of top-notch targets.

I'm ready to be proven wrong (again). And I DO trust Dino. But our class so far at least suggests that perhaps we've regrouped a bit when it comes to our targets. Not trying to be negative, but I'd like to get a sense from those more knowledgeable than me as to how they see our recruiting so far this cycle.

Lesson #1. Never believe everything posters post on a fan forum.
I don't recall seeing any statements from the coaching staff that there would be less scholarships this year or that they were being "more selective"...whatever that means. The coaches are going to evaluate and offer the prospects they think best fit the system, have good academics and can qualify and will help the team win. And I agree, why don't we wait and see how this class fills out and finishes.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Dabo: "You're not going to last very long if you're making evaluations from a 7-on-7 tape" - FootballScoop

Then Dabo used 5-11, 195lb Tampa Bay Bucs wide receiver Adam Humphries as an example. Coming out of high school, Humphries was a two-star corner out of South Carolina and had just 1 offer – Clemson. At Clemson, Humphries made the move to wide receiver and ended up starting 27 games, appeared in 53 games total, and caught just three touchdowns. At Clemson’s Pro Day, he ran a 4.53 and later signed a free agent deal with the Bucs. Last year he carved out a pivotal role and finished the year with 61 receptions for 631 yards as a productive NFL wide receiver.

“That’s why the Adam Humphries of the world are playing in the NFL, because they get overlooked by the combine stuff and recruiting rankings and all that. At the end of the day you’ve got to be a football player. So I look way more into that – what type of player are they? Sometimes guys have a lot of measurables but they’re not very good football players. Some people don’t have very good measurables, but they’re very good football players.”

“At the end of the day, it’s one thing to catch that ball over the middle when the guy is out there with a t-shirt on, it’s another thing when he has some pads on. It’s a different mindset.”


Some wise words from Dabo. Now don't @ me gbo