Hypothetical

[IthacaMatt]

That’s ridiculous. How would you know what “most” people think?

This is very, very sad. Just google "a long way from break even" and you will find dozens and dozens of references to people having lost money, being far underwater on an investment, or a company has expenses that far outstrip revenues. That you feel the need to dispute this is pathetic, really. It's ordinary common English.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He’s been here 44 years as the head coach, he coached every game (except for a handful), he signed off on or helped recruit every player, he hired every assistant coach, the strategies are all his ideas, etc., etc. I have a hard time understanding what part of the SU basketball program he hasn’t affected.

This idea that there are fans of Syracuse but not of JB sounds phony to me, especially coming from non-Alums. It’s a justification used by constant critics.

Are you a fan of ANY other sports teams at all?

Do you stop being a fan when the coach is fired?

FFS, man, stop being such a fan boi. The dude is 100 years old and dragging the program down the drain.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Zelda, I admire your passion and effort on this. It’s a hell of an attempt to define the nature of fandom across multiple sports.

And I’ll agree that players, opponents and even coaches come and go. I was a huge Celtics fan for decades because of Auerbach and Russell, the Jones boys, Havlicek, Howell, Sanders, Cowan’s, Jo Jo White, Byrd, etc, etc.. But I don’t care about them now or the NBA in general.

I get it.

But the relationship between Boeheim and SU basketball is different qualitatively and quantitatively than that between Yaz and the Sawks. JB is more intertwined with the program. The degree to which his fingerprints have been on every decision and action over a 44 year period is almost unprecedented in sports, pro or college.

The relationship between an alum and the school’s teams is also different because it’s tied up with the entire experience of attending the school. For us, SU sports are are part and parcel of the classes, the profs, the friends, the parties and all that. For us, SU just isn’t the local substitute for a pro franchise the area doesn’t have and which helps the locals deal with cabin fever in an inhospitable climate.

Most of the criticism of JB on here occurs after a loss. It seems to me to be an unattractive combination of frustration and entitlement coupled with an “I can say anything I want because I’m a fan” attitude.

My guess is that those that think it’s Boeheim that has been holding the program back from the greatness to which the fan base is entitled or accustomed to are going to be unpleasantly surprised at the length and depth of the transition. Hiring new coaches is a crap shoot at best.

While SU was integral to the Big East, it’s a geographic and cultural outlier in the ACC. The big home crowds could easily shrink significantly if the apparently very high expectations of the fans aren’t met in even the short term.

We’ll see what happens.

Please stop. Many of us fans were alive when Roy Danforth took SU to its first Final Four. I remember the articles in Sports Illustrated, with Kentucky players mocking our team prior to our game. I remember watching them play at Manley and I remember their oh-so-rare TV performances in those days, before cable TV.

Of course you're scared of Boeheim leaving because you can't conceive of hoops here without him. But he's not God, man. He's just a coach. A great coach - based on his body of work - but an old coach, who doesn't work as hard as he used to, does things the same way, is kind of stuck in a rut.

Bobby Bowden coached Florida State into national prominence, but then overstayed his welcome. They replaced him and stopped the program's decline. Bobby Knight stayed too long at Indiana. They haven't had a coach as good since then, but other coaches have won there. When Dean Smith left North Carolina, they made a couple bad coaching hires, but then they got Roy Williams and bounced back, this season notwithstanding. UCLA had John Wooden, for chrissakes, and they had other coaches (more than 1) take them to subsequent Final Fours.

History and empirical evidence run counter to your man-myth of Jim Boeheim.

 

[Alsacs]

Please stop. Many of us fans were alive when Roy Danforth took SU to its first Final Four. I remember the articles in Sports Illustrated, with Kentucky players mocking our team prior to our game. I remember watching them play at Manley and I remember their oh-so-rare TV performances in those days, before cable TV.

Of course you're scared of Boeheim leaving because you can't conceive of hoops here without him. But he's not God, man. He's just a coach. A great coach - based on his body of work - but an old coach, who doesn't work as hard as he used to, does things the same way, is kind of stuck in a rut.

Bobby Bowden coached Florida State into national prominence, but then overstayed his welcome. They replaced him and stopped the program's decline. Bobby Knight stayed too long at Indiana. They haven't had a coach as good since then, but other coaches have won there. When Dean Smith left North Carolina, they made a couple bad coaching hires, but then they got Roy Williams and bounced back, this season notwithstanding. UCLA had John Wooden, for chrissakes, and they had other coaches (more than 1) take them to subsequent Final Fours.

History and empirical evidence run counter to your man-myth of Jim Boeheim.

I mean it’s fair to say Syracuse will likely be less successful from the golden age of SU hoops but since 2016 it’s not like the next coach can’t do that when JB retires.
Jim Calhoun made UConn a national power in the 90s and since he left they have sucked but they did a win a NC in 2014.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I mean it’s fair to say Syracuse will likely be less successful from the golden age of SU hoops but since 2016 it’s not like the next coach can’t do that when JB retires.
Jim Calhoun made UConn a national power in the 90s and since he left they have sucked but they did a win a NC in 2014.

Interesting to note that (F)UConn (67) and Syracuse (66) are neck and neck in the NET Rankings.

 

[Alsacs]

Interesting to note that (F)UConn (67) and Syracuse (66) are neck and neck in the NET Rankings.

Our fanbase just can’t be objective.
It’s a fact.
We can all appreciate what JB has done but I have given up on hoping for things to change.
I just now want a product that is fun to watch. Before this year the games were hard to watch. I had no expectations for the tournament this year so these losses don’t really bother me because I kept expectations lower.

It’s just we have Baghdad Bob’s in our fanbase who refuse to look at the situation and realize that our problems don’t get addressed quickly and nothing is going to change till Buddy graduates.

Players like Dion Waters and Brandon Triche couldn’t play 35MPG but lesser players since then are all marathon men.

I wish Waiters played 38MPG imagine that. An NBA talent playing that many minutes.

 

[721Comstock]

Please stop. Many of us fans were alive when Roy Danforth took SU to its first Final Four. I remember the articles in Sports Illustrated, with Kentucky players mocking our team prior to our game. I remember watching them play at Manley and I remember their oh-so-rare TV performances in those days, before cable TV.

Of course you're scared of Boeheim leaving because you can't conceive of hoops here without him. But he's not God, man. He's just a coach. A great coach - based on his body of work - but an old coach, who doesn't work as hard as he used to, does things the same way, is kind of stuck in a rut.

Bobby Bowden coached Florida State into national prominence, but then overstayed his welcome. They replaced him and stopped the program's decline. Bobby Knight stayed too long at Indiana. They haven't had a coach as good since then, but other coaches have won there. When Dean Smith left North Carolina, they made a couple bad coaching hires, but then they got Roy Williams and bounced back, this season notwithstanding. UCLA had John Wooden, for chrissakes, and they had other coaches (more than 1) take them to subsequent Final Fours.

History and empirical evidence run counter to your man-myth of Jim Boeheim.

Actually no. There are a LOT more examples of post HOF flameouts, than successes.

Indiana and UCLA have never gotten back to the elite level they were at w/ the HOF coach.
Crean's record at IU was barely above .500. Seriously.
In spite of the handful of good seasons he had.

And they've had like another half dozen other guys since then too.
All have basically sucked.

St John's post-Louie = wandering in the wasteland.

UConn - Ollie won that Natty w/ Calhoun's guys, and now - here we are.
Psycho Hurley on the sideline, and how many straight losing seasons?

UNC had 2 bad coaches before they finally lured Ol Cryin Roy back from Kansas.

Maybe we can do that too? Suck for a decade, then hire Hop?
That sounds awesome.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Actually no. There are a LOT more examples of post HOF flameouts, than successes.

Indiana and UCLA have never gotten back to the elite level they were at w/ the HOF coach.
Crean's record at IU was barely above .500. Seriously.
In spite of the handful of good seasons he had.

And they've had like another half dozen other guys since then too.
All have basically sucked.

St John's post-Louie = wandering in the wasteland.

UConn - Ollie won that Natty w/ Calhoun's guys, and now - here we are.
Psycho Hurley on the sideline, and how many straight losing seasons?

UNC had 2 bad coaches before they finally lured Ol Cryin Roy back from Kansas.

Maybe we can do that too? Suck for a decade, then hire Hop?
That sounds awesome.

Indiana and UCLA were never going to win multiple championships under the new guy. Only a few handful of coaches EVER have done that.

Kelvin Sampson had a 43-15 record in his 2 seasons at Indiana, made the NCAA tourney both years, won the Big 10 regular season title once and was ranked in the Top 10 at Indiana before he was caught cheating and fired.

Saying that Crain was barely a .500 coach there is doing him a disservice. Indiana went on probation, their best 2 players left and the roster was a dumpster fire for 3 years (going 28-66) until he signed Cody Zeller and Victor Oladipo. Then he went 138-69 and made 3 Sweet 16s in 5 years. Not at all bad.

UCLA had Jim Harrick lead them to an Elite 8 and another championship. When Harrick was abruptly fired for recruiting violations, Steve Lavin was hired. Lavin got them to 5 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years (only Coach K did better during that time period), and was hauling in great recruits, but was perceived to be underachieving with all that talent, and got canned. Then came Ben Howland, who "only" got them to three straight Final Fours. So, UCLA did better than about 95% of all of college basketball post-Wooden.

St. John's and UConn are not proper comps because neither one has the facilities that we do. They both play in crap arenas. They are both essentially commuter schools.

As for UNC, after Dean Smith, I think Bill Guthridge only coached for 2 years, and I believe Matt Doherty only lasted for 2 years as well, before Droopy Dog came back to save them.

So, no, unless we make a string of terrible decisions, I don't expect to suck for a decade - unless you are already counting time on that in these final years under Boeheim.