I love JB and it's why this year has to be it

[chugg21]

This is order of magnitude, so don't kill me if the # is slightly off.

But I saw a stat that indicated that over the first 38 years of JB's career at SU, his teams won 76% of their games.

Over the last 8 years [not including this year], that winning percentage had dipped to 59%.

JB had lost 13+ games only 4 times in his 1st 37 years. He's now managed to hit that mark in 8 consecutive full seasons.

Not including the shortened '20-'21 season.

 

[RF2044]

JB had lost 13+ games only 4 times in his 1st 37 years. He's now managed to hit that mark in 8 consecutive full seasons.

Not including the shortened '20-'21 season.

Another sobering data point...

 

[IthacaMatt]

Two more years apparently. No idea if that's in writing or just a handshake agreement. But if he's just 'whatever' after losing to Colgate there's nothing to suggest he'll suddenly wake up one morning and think otherwise, even if this another losing season.

Well that's a terrible idea. It's over.

 

[KaiserUEO]

He needs to be shown the door NOW!!!

 

[Millhouse]

Another sobering data point...

It's not that sobering. The guy was great and now he's not as great. Everyone knows this. I'm saying that people should've been prepared for this. When a guy gives you a thousand wins, it's hard to can him when things aren't so good

 

[Millhouse]

I love my Daughters and family. I dont love JB.

i love doritos and watching people falling down stairs too.

I WILL ONLY USE THE WORD LOVE TO DESCRIBE MY WIFE AND CHILDREN is weird

 

[RF2044]

It's not that sobering. The guy was great and now he's not as great. Everyone knows this. I'm saying that people should've been prepared for this. When a guy gives you a thousand wins, it's hard to can him when things aren't so good

You're dismissing the trend too easily, given the magnitude of the decline, IMO. I also don't agree that the line of demarcation for a successful vs. unsuccessful season should be getting our head above .500 , which lowers the bar to an unacceptable degree of tolerated performance.

Information like this should inform what happens next, if the season unfolds the way I expect it to. This isn't "canning" someone as a knee jerk reaction to one subpar season, it's coaxing an 80 year old man who's holding the program hostage to move along so that the program can seek to recover.

JB probably should have been "canned" after the program was put on probation for the second time under his jurisdiction. When you combine that with him reneging on the documented succession plan, and the program being on the decline for an extended period of time rapidly approach a decade, culminating in a losing season last year, his ability to have full autonomy over how things unfold from this point forward should be at an end.

At some point, JB will be out of rope. I'm guessing that will happen if we have a second consecutive losing season.

Will he be canned outright? Doubtful -- but I'm guessing that the AD will push him out, allowing him to save face by "retiring."

My fear is that JB won't move on, making things even uglier and necessitating more direct pressure.

 

[Millhouse]

You're dismissing the trend too easily, given the magnitude of the decline, IMO.

I also don't agree that the watermark for a successful vs. unsuccessful season should be getting our head above the .500 watermark, which lowers the bar to an unacceptable degree of tolerated performance.

Information like this should inform what happens next, if the season unfolds the way I expect it to. This isn't "canning" someone as a knee jerk reaction to one subpar season, it's coaxing an 80 year old man who isn't performing at the previous level over an extended period of time rapidly approach a decade, and who's holding the program hostage, to move along so that the program can seek to recover.

At some point, JB will be out of rope. I'm guessing that will happen if we have a second consecutive losing season. Will he be canned outright? Doubtful -- but I'm guessing that the AD will push him out, allowing him to save face by "retiring."

My fear is that JB won't move on, making things even uglier and necessitating more direct pressure.

I want him coaxed to hang it up by his family. I really don't want SU to fire him or push him out. JB won't care about saving face, he'll tell everyone he got canned if that's what they do

 

[RF2044]

I want him coaxed to hang it up by his family. I really don't want SU to fire him or push him out. JB won't care about saving face, he'll tell everyone he got canned if that's what they do

On that, I agree 100%.

He's more inclined to make this ugly versus be cooperative if things don't go his way.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's not that sobering. The guy was great and now he's not as great. Everyone knows this. I'm saying that people should've been prepared for this. When a guy gives you a thousand wins, it's hard to can him when things aren't so good

The game has changed. Steph Curry changed everything.

If you have to guard shooters out to 25 feet, the gaps in a zone are just too big to defend.

It's science. It's geometry. It's attributable to ever-increasing shooting skill levels among players. EVERYONE can shoot a three nowadays.

The game has changed. The coaching strategy has NOT. It really is that simple.

 

[Millhouse]

The game has changed. Steph Curry changed everything.

If you have to guard shooters out to 25-28 feet, the gaps in a zone are just too big to defend.

It's science. It's geometry. It's attributable to ever-increasing shooting skill levels among players. EVERYONE can shoot a three nowadays.

The game has changed. The coaching strategy has NOT. It really is that simple.

Youtube

JB used to have Tim the Target Sullivan teach his kids or come to the clinics, now you can watch the guys mentally crazy youtube videos at home. Dave Hopla, Ryan Razooki or whatever his name is, lots of great stuff out there. Can watch anything slow motion and figure it out yourself Two fingers equally heightened, shouder by lip, finish elbow above the eyebrow

all the old people like us had to figure stuff out on our own for the most part. so inefficent, i'm so jealous of kids

 

[Scooch]

The game has changed. Steph Curry changed everything.

If you have to guard shooters out to 25-28 feet, the gaps in a zone are just too big to defend.

It's science. It's geometry. It's attributable to ever-increasing shooting skill levels among players. EVERYONE can shoot a three nowadays.

The game has changed. The coaching strategy has NOT. It really is that simple.

I'm not convinced a very well-played zone D can't work in today's college game.

However, the term "well-played" is doing a lot of work.

We haven't had the necessary combo of size up top, athleticism on the wings, and shot-erasing ability down low for a long time. Plus, that all needs to come together quickly given how players rapidly cycle through the program in this era.

So I think the zone *could* be an effective defense if we deployed it in the right circumstances. But given our recent recruiting and the incredible amount of SU roster turnover, I don't know if *we* can play zone effectively as a defense deployed 90%+ of the time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Youtube

JB used to have Tim the Target Sullivan teach his kids or come to the clinics, now you can watch the guys mentally crazy youtube videos at home. Dave Hopla, Ryan Razooki or whatever his name is, lots of great stuff out there. Can watch anything slow motion and figure it out yourself Two fingers equally heightened, shouder by lip, finish elbow above the eyebrow

all the old people like us had to figure stuff out on our own for the most part. so inefficent, i'm so jealous of kids

Excellent point. YouTube videos provide great feedback to shooters.
Everyone can literally film their own motion, post it and analyze it these days.

 

[chugg21]

Youtube

JB used to have Tim the Target Sullivan teach his kids or come to the clinics, now you can watch the guys mentally crazy youtube videos at home. Dave Hopla, Ryan Razooki or whatever his name is, lots of great stuff out there. Can watch anything slow motion and figure it out yourself Two fingers equally heightened, shouder by lip, finish elbow above the eyebrow

all the old people like us had to figure stuff out on our own for the most part. so inefficent, i'm so jealous of kids

Sully was from Batavia. Used to be there as an adult fighting with us kids in pickup games at the Y when I was like 13.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not convinced a very well-played zone D can't work in today's college game.

However, the term "well-played" is doing a lot of work.

We haven't had the necessary combo of size up top, athleticism on the wings, and shot-erasing ability down low for a long time. Plus, that all needs to come together quickly given how players rapidly cycle through the program in this era.

So I think the zone *could* be an effective defense if we deployed it in the right circumstances. But given our recent recruiting and the incredible amount of SU roster turnover, I don't know if *we* can play zone effectively as a defense deployed 90%+ of the time.

It would be ugly basketball on offense, but we could absolutely play a nasty zone with Edwards and Hima protecting the rim, some combo of Benny, Bell, Brown and Taylor on the baseline, and Mintz, Torrence and Copeland up top.

 

[Millhouse]

Excellent point. YouTube videos provide great feedback to shooters.
Everyone can literally film their own motion, post it and analyze it these days.

i didn't see my golf swing on video until high school and the horror was like watching someone behead my grandma - this is what i've been doing this whole time?!? no wonder i suck

all the old baseball swing cliches are so stupid after watching slow motion video, i'm in the middle of all of it with young kids trying to figure stuff out.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

My favorite it's not actually my favorite part of all of this is that JB can't get recruits to come in now for next year.

That's not getting better for the 2024 class.

A Weitsman miracle might not even make it happen.

 

[Millhouse]

Sully was from Batavia. Used to be there as an adult fighting with us kids in pickup games at the Y when I was like 13.

i didn't know him, good friend played with him at notre dame and has tried to help him out over the years

he's got videos of him working with wes, mcw, young jimmy, hops kid. pretty funny. the video of him making a million 3s in a row at JB's camp is bananas

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Youtube

JB used to have Tim the Target Sullivan teach his kids or come to the clinics, now you can watch the guys mentally crazy youtube videos at home. Dave Hopla, Ryan Razooki or whatever his name is, lots of great stuff out there. Can watch anything slow motion and figure it out yourself Two fingers equally heightened, shouder by lip, finish elbow above the eyebrow

all the old people like us had to figure stuff out on our own for the most part. so inefficent, i'm so jealous of kids

You don't even need YouTube. Tik Tok has it all. I finally learned a nasty cross over keyed off the defender's front foot position as a fat 40 year old thanks to a dude I follow.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I'm not convinced a very well-played zone D can't work in today's college game.

However, the term "well-played" is doing a lot of work.

We haven't had the necessary combo of size up top, athleticism on the wings, and shot-erasing ability down low for a long time. Plus, that all needs to come together quickly given how players rapidly cycle through the program in this era.

So I think the zone *could* be an effective defense if we deployed it in the right circumstances. But given our recent recruiting and the incredible amount of SU roster turnover, I don't know if *we* can play zone effectively as a defense deployed 90%+ of the time.

I agree

Having the zone as a base defense still works, even our 2015-2019 teams were still among the best defensive teams in the country.

I think you can't play *only* zone defense anymore, but it still works as a base

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I'm not convinced a very well-played zone D can't work in today's college game.

However, the term "well-played" is doing a lot of work.

We haven't had the necessary combo of size up top, athleticism on the wings, and shot-erasing ability down low for a long time. Plus, that all needs to come together quickly given how players rapidly cycle through the program in this era.

So I think the zone *could* be an effective defense if we deployed it in the right circumstances. But given our recent recruiting and the incredible amount of SU roster turnover, I don't know if *we* can play zone effectively as a defense deployed 90%+ of the time.

But we shouldn't need it to be an effective D. That wasn't SU BBall. We would outscore people and only used the Zone to mask good athletic O players who weren't as good on D. It forced teams to take lower % shots without having good defenders.

We used to try to score 80 while hoping the Zone could hold our opponents under 70. Then JB got into trying to hold teams under 65 and hoping to score more than that. Then he got a bunch of shooters and became 3 pt happy, but those players weren't athletic enough to play any D.

 

[CuseTG2003]

And we have had the pleasure of seeing winning teams for decades that so many teams never get to experience with said regularity. But when you look at the winning % over the last two decades, it's pretty clear.

View attachment 222216

A trendline would take that viz to the next level.

 

[IthacaMatt]

My favorite it's not actually my favorite part of all of this is that JB can't get recruits to come in now for next year.

That's not getting better for the 2024 class.

A Weitsman miracle might not even make it happen.

What 5 star wants to be a savior on a losing team, and have to play a defense that's mostly designed to fail?

 

[richard levy]

i didn't see my golf swing on video until high school and the horror was like watching someone behead my grandma - this is what i've been doing this whole time?!? no wonder i suck

all the old baseball swing cliches are so stupid after watching slow motion video, i'm in the middle of all of it with young kids trying to figure stuff out.

In MLB, players go back to the dugout and watch themselves on an IPad to analyze what just happened

 

[KaiserUEO]

What 5 star wants to be a savior on a losing team, and have to play a defense that's mostly designed to fail?

What 1 star wants to come to a team that can’t beat Colgate???

Fire JB.