I ride with Dino...

[HRE Otto IV]

Absolutely. My thread starter was more about the end game and how JW will handle a putrid start to 2021 (a 0-2 with a loss to Rutgers). That will heat the water around here to levels that will be tough to escape. I am just VERY curious how JW is going to handle this situation. Everything that was considered an excuse seems to have been mitigated by JW and the school.

My bigger existential issue is the ACC and how we are situated in it. The conf did us zero favors with the divisional alignment. We're fishing in a pond that is truly deep for our abilities IMO. Not saying we can't compete but to play both FSU and Clemson yearly (talking historically) is a tough ask. We sometimes get seduced by our bowl performances against the southern heavy weights but I tend to think we punch above our weight against schools unhappy about the bowls they are in when they face us.

Anyway, this season is a breakfast ball, in golf parlance. No one with a brain can hold this against Dino. I'm just worried about next year when you can start to question the coaching at this level in this conference. He came in with a philosophy that may not work in the ACC with our personnel. If he can't revise on the fly, he's going to be a former HC at some point in 2021

Our schedule is fine. Currently there is a 6 year ACC cycle where we will play every Coastal team once and ND twice. SO using that as a template:

Yearly FCS and 2 yearly G5s I will be conservative here and say we should go 16-2 over that 6 year cycle vs these teams.

Yearly Clemson plus 2 games vs ND while think one win is possible over a 6 year span, I will be conservative and say 0-8. So now we are 16-10.

Yearly vs FSU we should be able to get 2 wins over the next 6 years. They are easily a few years away from being a Top 25 team again and further from being a Top 10 team. That is assuming they have the right guy as HC. So I think 2-4 is realistic and gets us to 18-14 overall.

Then we have 6 games (3 home and 3 away) yearly vs the rest of the ACC. Is it really asking too much to go .500 against Louisville, NC State, Wake, BC, Pitt, Coastal teams? But let's be conservative. At home we should easily be able to achieve 2-1 each year (12-6 over 6) so that is 30-20 overall. For the road games let's say we win one game 2/3 of the time. Which is 4-14 over 6 years getting our total to 34-34.

That leaves 4 games vs an OOC P5. If we schedule light here we should be able to go .500 but even being conservative we should go 1-3. Bringing our final 6 year total to 35-37. That will get us to a Bowl 2/3 of the time.

So being conservative a HC over the 6 year cycle should be pretty close to .500 here even with Clemson every year. That is how Wake, BC, and to a lessor extent NC State have been able to make Bowls consistently. Also this is assuming that divisions do not go away which would certainly help us.

 

[CousCuse]

I would live for the H0T Takes on this board if Syracuse ever hires Lance Leipold and the majority of posters find out he’s a former D3 coach and brought half his D3 staff to coach with him in Buffalo.

His record at the D3 level has to be among the greatest ever compiled at any level of football or sports for that matter. Then he backed it up with his UB transformation.

 

[PatMark]

On the money thing and buyouts, people keep intimating that it won't work because SU is generally poor when it comes to this stuff.

Mentioned this on another thread but this line “we can’t afford the buyout“ is a very 1990s way of thinking. We are getting a 25-35 million dollar check from the ACC YEARLY now. There are creative ways to leverage this if you need capital now. We’ve also seen Wildhack cultivate new major donors in his short time back. If JW thinks it’s time, he finds the money.

 

[TheCusian]

Sorry, but there are several fans that don't view the team through orange color glasses.

No - they view the team through whatever the opposite is and don’t get scrutinized enough. When they do, they say “you have orange glasses on” instead of actually doing the work of proving their point.

several lol

 

[TheCusian]

Absolutely. My thread starter was more about the end game and how JW will handle a putrid start to 2021 (a 0-2 with a loss to Rutgers). That will heat the water around here to levels that will be tough to escape. I am just VERY curious how JW is going to handle this situation. Everything that was considered an excuse seems to have been mitigated by JW and the school.

My bigger existential issue is the ACC and how we are situated in it. The conf did us zero favors with the divisional alignment. We're fishing in a pond that is truly deep for our abilities IMO. Not saying we can't compete but to play both FSU and Clemson yearly (talking historically) is a tough ask. We sometimes get seduced by our bowl performances against the southern heavy weights but I tend to think we punch above our weight against schools unhappy about the bowls they are in when they face us.

Anyway, this season is a breakfast ball, in golf parlance. No one with a brain can hold this against Dino. I'm just worried about next year when you can start to question the coaching at this level in this conference. He came in with a philosophy that may not work in the ACC with our personnel. If he can't revise on the fly, he's going to be a former HC at some point in 2021

What southern team have we played in a bowl in the last 20 years? KState? WVU x2? Minnesota?

 

[NineOneSeven]

WE RIDE NORTH

 

[All4SU]

Thats the national perception of our program and it is similar to all the sane fans on this forum. You and your pro Baber’s buddies aren’t going to win this one just like the pro coach P, GR, SS guys didn’t win. The writing is on the wall, I can’t help it if you can’t read.

How did all of those changes work out for you?

 

[TheCusian]

I would live for the H0T Takes on this board if Syracuse ever hires Lance Leipold and the majority of posters find out he’s a former D3 coach and brought half his D3 staff to coach with him in Buffalo.

Guy is good. He’s not a D3 coach anymore. He’s a MAC coach with a good HC resume.

 

[TheCusian]

Mentioned this on another thread but this line “we can’t afford the buyout“ is a very 1990s way of thinking. We are getting a 25-35 million dollar check from the ACC YEARLY now. There are creative ways to leverage this if you need capital now. We’ve also seen Wildhack cultivate new major donors in his short time back. If JW thinks it’s time, he finds the money.

It’s dumb to fire your coach in an asterisk year. There’s no way to truly analyze his performance this year. We can say “not good” and I’m sure Wildhack would agree. But it’s been so far from normal and the buyout is so large, it’s not gonna happen.

 

[TheCusian]

In all honesty, to the pro-fire Dino guys:

How is his job performance this year proved to you that he can’t do the job? Show your work.

 

[All4SU]

I know the reality of the situation. Dino is getting next year and I hope he figures it out but I don’t think he will. Looking at the schedule and the guys I think we are losing are to much. Next season has disaster written all over it once again.

Also coach P had to go. I can’t help it that SU hired the worst possible fit for the position at the worst possible time. That’s on SU.

I don’t want to turn this into a Coach P thread. But man! If SU had invested in facilities and salaries when P was here I am completely confident Coach P would have cycled the program back up. The guy was and is a football coach who was great for this program. We would have saved an awful lot of angst over the last 20years if we had not bailed on P. He was the victim of the expectations that he set.

 

[CousCuse]

I don’t want to turn this into a Coach P thread. But man! If SU had invested in facilities and salaries when P was here I am completely confident Coach P would have cycled the program back up. The guy was and is a football coach who was great for this program. We would have saved an awful lot of angst over the last 29 years if we had not bailed on P. He was the victim of the expectations that he set.

If they made that investment when Marrone was the coach, SU would be at the top of the ACC. Instead they make him out to be an arrogant jerk because he dug in his heals.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

In all honesty, to the pro-fire Dino guys:

How is his job performance this year proved to you that he can’t do the job? Show your work.

I'm convinced Dino will have another year, but here goes:

1. He got his OL injured again (yes, there is something wrong with strength & conditioning and they way they practice because this happens consistently).
2. He has no viable back-up QB (yes, he should have gotten Morgan & Markiewicz lots of reps in practice to make sure they were at least somewhat ready).
3. WR recruiting is lacking.
4. Insufficient run-stopper DTs.
5. W T play calling (really? call a run with 10 seconds to go and no time outs?).
6. His record is 1 and 9 (Covid & all the related stuff is there on the other side of the field as well).

That being said, he gets another year to figure this out.

 

[PatMark]

It’s dumb to fire your coach in an asterisk year. There’s no way to truly analyze his performance this year. We can say “not good” and I’m sure Wildhack would agree. But it’s been so far from normal and the buyout is so large, it’s not gonna happen.

Dumb? South Carolina & Vandy just fired coaches that were more successful at their schools than Dino has been at Cuse.

Its an asterisk year for everyone - not just Cuse - and yet teams across the country have been night and day more prepared and better coached than this team.

Cisco got hurt after contemplating opting out in August. He only contemplates that because he knows we stink. Trill opts out because we stink. Adams and Jarveon opt out but really do they win us more games? Tucker may be better than them and has been great. Injuries are going to happen every year but the fact remains Dino has no recruited an ACC caliber roster.

There is a way to analyze his performance and that is looking like 1-10 for the first time since 2005 in GROB’S FIRST SEASON...

 

[StLouisCuse]

In all honesty, to the pro-fire Dino guys:

How is his job performance this year proved to you that he can’t do the job? Show your work.

Oh boy. Have you been watching at all? Not going to bother. My goodness.

 

[Sudano]

I will start worrying about Wildhack if he doesnt fire Babers in the coming weeks. This lines up perfectly... for a chance for Matt Patricia to return home

What has Patricia done to warrant a P5 Head Coaching job. He was terrible in Detroit. Just his assistant work in NE?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I'm convinced Dino will have another year, but here goes:

1. He got his OL injured again (yes, there is something wrong with strength & conditioning and they way they practice because this happens consistently).
2. He has no viable back-up QB (yes, he should have gotten Morgan & Markiewicz lots of reps in practice to make sure they were at least somewhat ready).
3. WR recruiting is lacking.
4. Insufficient run-stopper DTs.
5. W T play calling (really? call a run with 10 seconds to go and no time outs?).
6. His record is 1 and 9 (Covid & all the related stuff is there on the other side of the field as well).

That being said, he gets another year to figure this out.

I do not think we should fire Dino this year. Next year I can live with 3-9 given that we have our 2016-18 O back. But 5-7 with a 2019 like O and I will have lost faith.

To add to the red flags:

- The O has been a cluster for the last 22 games. We never look sharp on O. There never seems to be a plan and the team consistently looks disorganized.
- His teams lay major eggs after bye weeks. Duke and Louisville are the worst teams on our schedule and we played the worst two games of the season with two weeks to prep. We have seen this in other years as well.

- The team lacks discipline and accountability. The penalties are a joke. How can anyone watch us play and say the are a well coaches team but just lack talent?

 

[syrBossHogg]

No one is switching conferences. It's a foolish thought. We are paid for our geography in the ACC and the TV sets we deliver (or i guess IP addresses at this point). I'm just saying we are certainly not in the Big East anymore.

Oh I agree with you, I was just responding to the Radio host comment that said we should move to the AAC

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I'm convinced Dino will have another year, but here goes:

1. He got his OL injured again (yes, there is something wrong with strength & conditioning and they way they practice because this happens consistently).

4. Insufficient run-stopper DTs.

5. W T play calling (really? call a run with 10 seconds to go and no time outs?).

That being said, he gets another year to figure this out.

1. You think Dino is intentionally kneecapping his players with a pipe wrench?

4. When was the last time we had a great run stopping DT? Ted Gregory?

5. It was 40 SECONDS, not 10.

 

[TheCusian]

Dumb? South Carolina & Vandy just fired coaches that were more successful at their schools than Dino has been at Cuse.

Its an asterisk year for everyone - not just Cuse - and yet teams across the country have been night and day more prepared and better coached than this team.

Cisco got hurt after contemplating opting out in August. He only contemplates that because he knows we stink. Trill opts out because we stink. Adams and Jarveon opt out but really do they win us more games? Tucker may be better than them and has been great. Injuries are going to happen every year but the fact remains Dino has no recruited an ACC caliber roster.

There is a way to analyze his performance and that is looking like 1-10 for the first time since 2005 in GROB’S FIRST SEASON...

SEC $ ain't ACC $
SEC fanbases are notoriously bad at this

Muschamp did a slightly better job than Mason and Babers, but not by much. Dino is better than Mason by quite a bit:

HC	Record	SRS (0 is average)	SoS (0 is average)
Will Muschamp	28-30 (.483)	1.25	3.84
Derek Mason	27-55 (.329)	-4.31	3.01
Dino Babers	24-35 (.407)	-0.17	3.38

You think Harbaugh and Franklin suck? How are they having horrible years? This is what I mean by folks wearing the opposite of orange glasses on. Look around! Lots of uneven, unprepared horrible years for guys we'd consider good coaches at good programs. It's an asterisk year. Like. I. Have. Been. Saying.

So your theory appears to be "the best players opted out because they'd knew we stink" ... it's weak unless you got it from them showing their state of mind. I'd bet it was more "2020 is crazy and playing does nothing to add to my resume because it's an asterisk year"

If you think Dino is as bad as Gerg, I can show you a chart to blow that to bits

 

[orange79]

If they made that investment when Marrone was the coach, SU would be at the top of the ACC. Instead they make him out to be an arrogant jerk because he dug in his heals.

If they had made that investment while Marrone was coach, he would still have jumped to the NFL.

And would still be an arrogant jerk.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

1. You think Dino is intentionally kneecapping his players with a pipe wrench?

4. When was the last time we had a great run stopping DT? Ted Gregory?

5. It was 40 SECONDS, not 10. That

1. Really? That was ridiculous - it's pretty obvious there is something wrong because we consistently have trouble getting a serviceable OL together because of injury.

4. If you move to 3 - 3 - 5, you need DTs.

5. You are really going to argue that the last 40 seconds was brilliant play calling and time management? Go right ahead.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

1. Really? That was ridiculous - it's pretty obvious there is something wrong because we consistently have trouble getting a serviceable OL together because of injury.

4. If you move to 3 - 3 - 5, you need DTs.

5. You are really going to argue that the last 40 seconds was brilliant play calling and time management? Go right ahead.

No. I'm going to argue with your ridiculous claim that Dino called for a designed run on 3rd down with 10 seconds left on the clock.

 

[orange79]

5. You are really going to argue that the last 40 seconds was brilliant play calling and time management? Go right ahead.

So, 30 seconds of game time calling for a run makes no difference. OK, got it.

 

[PatMark]

SEC $ ain't ACC $
SEC fanbases are notoriously bad at this

Muschamp did a slightly better job than Mason and Babers, but not by much. Dino is better than Mason by quite a bit:

HC	Record	SRS (0 is average)	SoS (0 is average)
Will Muschamp	28-30 (.483)	1.25	3.84
Derek Mason	27-55 (.329)	-4.31	3.01
Dino Babers	24-35 (.407)	-0.17	3.38

You think Harbaugh and Franklin suck? How are they having horrible years? This is what I mean by folks wearing the opposite of orange glasses on. Look around! Lots of uneven, unprepared horrible years for guys we'd consider good coaches at good programs. It's an asterisk year. Like. I. Have. Been. Saying.

So your theory appears to be "the best players opted out because they'd knew we stink" ... it's weak unless you got it from them showing their state of mind. I'd bet it was more "2020 is crazy and playing does nothing to add to my resume because it's an asterisk year"

If you think Dino is as bad as Gerg, I can show you a chart to blow that to bits

While your chart is cute, I stand by what I said about Muschamp and Mason. Mason has been to TWO bowl games at VANDERBILT in the SEC. So yes, his overall record is worse than Dinos but what he accomplished at Vanderbilt in 7 years is more impressive than what Dino has done here in 5.

The difference between Harbaugh & Franklin to Dino is that those two actually lost multiple NFL players in addition to opt outs. Michigan had 10 draft picks in April. Penn State had 5 draft picks.

While obviously I don’t believe Dino to be at Greg levels in totality the fact of the matter is this season is GRob bad. You’re into charts - can I get an offensive comparison between 2005 and this year??