I ride with Dino...

[Briancuse]

I do not think we should fire Dino this year. Next year I can live with 3-9 given that we have our 2016-18 O back. But 5-7 with a 2019 like O and I will have lost faith.

To add to the red flags:

- The O has been a cluster F for the last 22 games. We never look sharp on O. There never seems to be a plan and the team consistently looks disorganized.
- His teams lay major eggs after bye weeks. Duke and Louisville are the worst teams on our schedule and we played the worst two games of the season with two weeks to prep. We have seen this in other years as well.

- The team lacks discipline and accountability. The penalties are a joke. How can anyone watch us play and say the are a well coaches team but just lack talent?

No one should live with 3-9 next year, that is not acceptable.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm convinced Dino will have another year, but here goes:

1. He got his OL injured again (yes, there is something wrong with strength & conditioning and they way they practice because this happens consistently).
2. He has no viable back-up QB (yes, he should have gotten Morgan & Markiewicz lots of reps in practice to make sure they were at least somewhat ready).
3. WR recruiting is lacking.
4. Insufficient run-stopper DTs.
5. W T F play calling (really? call a run with 10 seconds to go and no time outs?).
6. His record is 1 and 9 (Covid & all the related stuff is there on the other side of the field as well).

That being said, he gets another year to figure this out.

I appreciate the attempt and thought put into it, honestly thank you.

1. I don't think you can put this on him or S&C 100%. Sometimes, injuries blow up a position group. There are teams all over that deal with this. Our weird luck is that it happened 2 years in a row. And our position in the recruiting world can hamstring our depth a bit.

2. I think this one is the one I agree with the most. I think he's been too picky and they've missed on guys they thought they had. Chance leaving sucks. Fortin not picking us was bad for him and us. He'd have been better than Rex/Morgan for sure. That's on Dino.

3. I like our WRs, aside from Harris's attitude. Alford looks like a player. Queeley is steady. N. Johnson is ACC caliber.

4. We did ok vs NC State. I think this is more getting used to scheme than talent this season. I do agree that we could do better here overall.

5. I think play calling is almost always classic 20/20 hindsight stuff. That last sequence was insanely bad for all involved. But it was one game that didn't matter that much big picture.

6. Ok. Boiler plate asterisk stuff 1st: No camp, 2 new coordinators, pandemic + BLM, 2 best players opt out, playing 4 string freshman RB, like 7 Def Freshman, weird OL injuries, 1st string QB out, 3rd string QB out, mental load during COVID, etc.

Let's take all of that and add a focus on strength of schedule. This is the third hardest schedule we've faced in 46 years:

Year/HC	SoS (0 is avg)	Simple Rating System (0 is avg)	Record
1984/Mac	8.11	8.30	6-5
2001/Pasq	6.23	13.54	10-3
2020/Babers	5.86	-7.64	1-9
2017/Babers	5.80	1.96	4-8

 

[TheCusian]

While your chart is cute, I stand by what I said about Muschamp and Mason. Mason has been to TWO bowl games at VANDERBILT in the SEC. So yes, his overall record is worse than Dinos but what he accomplished at Vanderbilt in 7 years is more impressive than what Dino has done here in 5.

The difference between Harbaugh & Franklin to Dino is that those two actually lost multiple NFL players in addition to opt outs. Michigan had 10 draft picks in April. Penn State had 5 draft picks.

While obviously I don’t believe Dino to be at Greg levels in totality the fact of the matter is this season is GRob bad. You’re into charts - can I get an offensive comparison between 2005 and this year??

It's close enough between Mason/Muschamp/Babers to make your point moot.

We lost 2 NFL players due to opt outs this year. We don't recruit like Penn State and Michigan - so it's not all that different. The point was that this year is wacky and hard to judge anyone's career by. It's an asterisk year - always was.

Gerg's 2005 team was *way* worse with no asterisks, no pandemics, etc etc:

Year/HC	SoS (0 is avg)	SRS (0 is avg)	Yards per Play	Points per Game
2005/Gerg	2.87	-10.95	4.0	13.8
2020/Babers	5.86	-7.64	4.2	17.5

EDIT: Gerg has the third and fourth worst years in our history according to SRS. Dino's 2020 is at 8th.
EDIT x2: I originally had the chart mixed up. All fixed now.

 

[Cusefan69]

Interestingly Mason in the most competitive conference was given 7 years to make something happen.

 

[Acesn8s]

Anybody who takes the time to read and post on this site is obviously invested in the program and is a true fan IMO. But it baffles me to no end how anybody could possibly stick with Dino Barbers right now. The guy is in year 5!!!! We look ridiculous out there. Our recruiting is sub par, our high powered offense is a joke, and most importantly we are losing and losing a lot. This fan base was satisfied with Doug Marrone who was getting us to middle of the road bowl games. Dino looks out of his league 9 times out of 10. The cost of keeping him one more year to watch him lose , and fire him and start over right now is negligible. Dino will probably get one more year but he doesn’t deserve it and looking at next years schedule it doesn’t appear to me that it will be any better. I say fire him one minute after we get destroyed on Saturday.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Anybody who takes the time to read and post on this site is obviously invested in the program and is a true fan IMO. But it baffles me to no end how anybody could possibly stick with Dino Barbers right now. The guy is in year 5!!!! We look ridiculous out there. Our recruiting is sub par, our high powered offense is a joke, and most importantly we are losing and losing a lot. This fan base was satisfied with Doug Marrone who was getting us to middle of the road bowl games. Dino looks out of his league 9 times out of 10. The cost of keeping him one more year to watch him lose , and fire him and start over right now is negligible. Dino will probably get one more year but he doesn’t deserve it and looking at next years schedule it doesn’t appear to me that it will be any better. I say fire him one minute after we get destroyed on Saturday.

Money. People love to throw it around when it's not theirs.

I stick with him because he will be the head coach at Syracuse next year, pretty plain and simple. I also have been down this road before as most have too. Waiting to fire the current coach, hiring new coach, head coach doesn't know what the job really entails, being patient while they "get their guys", accusing them of not developing their guys and winning with previous coaches guys, can't recruit, can't win... waiting to fire current coach, wash rinse and repeat

 

[TheCusian]

Anybody who takes the time to read and post on this site is obviously invested in the program and is a true fan IMO. But it baffles me to no end how anybody could possibly stick with Dino Barbers right now. The guy is in year 5!!!! We look ridiculous out there. Our recruiting is sub par, our high powered offense is a joke, and most importantly we are losing and losing a lot. This fan base was satisfied with Doug Marrone who was getting us to middle of the road bowl games. Dino looks out of his league 9 times out of 10. The cost of keeping him one more year to watch him lose , and fire him and start over right now is negligible. Dino will probably get one more year but he doesn’t deserve it and looking at next years schedule it doesn’t appear to me that it will be any better. I say fire him one minute after we get destroyed on Saturday.

Dino and Doug actually match up quite well. Dougie had easier schedules and less resources, comparable results (bowls/wins/metrics). Dino has much harder schedules and more resources.

 

[Killdozer]

No - they view the team through whatever the opposite is and don’t get scrutinized enough. When they do, they say “you have orange glasses on” instead of actually doing the work of proving their point.

several lol

You didn't prove your point either...you just said we were all on "crazy sauce". I just don't have the energy to discuss with someone that will NEVER see another point of view. I realize there are huge Dino fans here that will never find fault with him, he is very charismatic. However, there are a few of us that wanted to see what he could do with his players as he has never done that with any of his coaching stops. I want SU to be successful no matter whom they have as head coach.

 

[Acesn8s]

Money. People love to throw it around when it's not theirs.

It’s funny you have brought this up before, the counter point is simple, big time college sports is a business. For better or worse it’s a business. And Also I would argue anybody, me included who use their $$$ and who makes donations and who buys season tickets regularly and makes even small investments in the University, which I do all of those those people have the right to give their opinion. You will have a real problem when a bunch of us small time people start adding up because the product isn’t worth the investments. That being said I will be honest, I will always be invested because I love it. I still went to games all throughout the Greg Robinson era so I will do it now as well. But when the University is paying Babers multiples of what they paid Grob and the product is just as bad that’s the issue.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You didn't prove your point either...you just said we were all on "crazy sauce". I just don't have the energy to discuss with someone that will NEVER see another point of view. I realize there are huge Dino fans here that will never find fault with him, he is very charismatic. However, there are a few of us that wanted to see what he could do with his players as he has never done that with any of his coaching stops. I want SU to be successful no matter whom they have as head coach.

Plenty of fault just think we gut it out at least one more year and see if we can't get things moving in a positive direction, there is a huge learning curve IMO to being coach at Syracuse and I don't wait to start over just yet. Call me crazy but I have seen this show before

 

[TheCusian]

You didn't prove your point either...you just said we were all on "crazy sauce". I just don't have the energy to discuss with someone that will NEVER see another point of view. I realize there are huge Dino fans here that will never find fault with him, he is very charismatic. However, there are a few of us that wanted to see what he could do with his players as he has never done that with any of his coaching stops. I want SU to be successful no matter whom they have as head coach.

You don't know me if you think I don't respond to a good argument and can be swayed.

To your "never built a team" comment - I think it's weak. "Look the guy did such a great job at his first two stops, he got promoted too quickly" is a rough start. 2018 doesn't happen if he doesn't bolster the roster around ED to make it work. And finally, HC's very rarely are around long enough to have their own roster. Guys like Clawson are an exception, not the rule.

 

[TheCusian]

It’s funny you have brought this up before, the counter point is simple, big time college sports is a business. For better or worse it’s a business. And Also I would argue anybody, me included who use their $$$ and who makes donations and who buys season tickets regularly and makes even small investments in the University, which I do all of those those people have the right to give their opinion. You will have a real problem when a bunch of us small time people start adding up because the product isn’t worth the investments. That being said I will be honest, I will always be invested because I love it. I still went to games all throughout the Greg Robinson era so I will do it now as well. But when the University is paying Babers multiples of what they paid Grob and the product is just as bad that’s the issue.

It's not been just as bad. This year is whacked and people keep trying to draw a comp to 2005 and it's silly

 

[Acesn8s]

Dino and Doug actually match up quite well. Dougie had easier schedules and less resources, comparable results (bowls/wins/metrics). Dino has much harder schedules and more resources.

I understand the sos has been harder, but you do not get to ride that into 6,7,8 years of job security. And you can’t tell me you think this team would have beat any of the Doug Marrone teams on the field. No way and especially Doug’s last year they would have beat this team by 30.

 

[Acesn8s]

It's not been just as bad. This year is whacked and people keep trying to draw a comp to 2005 and it's silly

Ok, take 2005 off the table does this 2020 team beat Grobs last team? The team that got him fired? No way.

 

[TheCusian]

I understand the sos has been harder, but you do not get to ride that into 6,7,8 years of job security. And you can’t tell me you think this team would have beat any of the Doug Marrone teams on the field. No way and especially Doug’s last year they would have beat this team by 30.

This team? No. But I don't have the energy to give the COVID-BOILER PLATE-ASTERISK again.

Doug's last team vs Dino's 2018 team would be something.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It’s funny you have brought this up before, the counter point is simple, big time college sports is a business. For better or worse it’s a business. And Also I would argue anybody, me included who use their $$$ and who makes donations and who buys season tickets regularly and makes even small investments in the University, which I do all of those those people have the right to give their opinion. You will have a real problem when a bunch of us small time people start adding up because the product isn’t worth the investments. That being said I will be honest, I will always be invested because I love it. I still went to games all throughout the Greg Robinson era so I will do it now as well. But when the University is paying Babers multiples of what they paid Grob and the product is just as bad that’s the issue.

I hear you but business is business but business during the covid pandemic is completely different. Choosing to ignore these circumstances is just not realistic and financially irresponsible. We also resigned Dino which brings on additional strain on finances ( with a heavy buy out) whether people want to come to grip with this stuff is up to them but it's all very real.

I wasn't aware that GROB beat Clemson in the dome or had a season with 10 wins. These do mean something whether people want to hear it.

And again, all of this falls on Dino, this has been a disaster of a year but I just think we have to give him at least one more year for a number of reasons and yes money being one as well in this current climate.

We are in same boat, I will always be around too and I am hoping that Dino can right the ship. I like the guy a lot and think he reps the University in a great manner but hey if we stink again next year it's worth a look for sure.

 

[TheCusian]

Ok, take 2005 off the table does this 2020 team beat Grobs last team? The team that got him fired? No way.

This year doesn't matter. It never did. Use last years as the bottom team of the Dino era.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Money. People love to throw it around when it's not theirs.

I stick with him because he will be the head coach at Syracuse next year, pretty plain and simple. I also have been down this road before as most have too. Waiting to fire the current coach, hiring new coach, head coach doesn't know what the job really entails, being patient while they "get their guys", accusing them of not developing their guys and winning with previous coaches guys, can't recruit, can't win... waiting to fire current coach, wash rinse and repeat

Yes, Dino will get another year.

Did you get today's email from SU's Development Office? SU has raised nearly $1 billion during this period, en route to their $1.5 billion goal. So, don't even start telling me money is problem.

 

[Acesn8s]

This year doesn't matter. It never did. Use last years as the bottom team of the Dino era.

It matters!!! The guy is making Millions of dollars this year!!!! He isn’t giving his salary back is he? Guys are getting fired across the country sent they? There will be a national title game, and a conference championship game.

 

[elimunelson]

I hear you but business is business but business during the covid pandemic is completely different. Choosing to ignore these circumstances is just not realistic and financially irresponsible. We also resigned Dino which brings on additional strain on finances ( with a heavy buy out) whether people want to come to grip with this stuff is up to them but it's all very real.

I wasn't aware that GROB beat Clemson in the dome or had a season with 10 wins. These do mean something whether people want to hear it.

And again, all of this falls on Dino, this has been a disaster of a year but I just think we have to give him at least one more year for a number of reasons and yes money being one as well in this current climate

yes to all of this. Dino is the guy in 2021. To me the schedule is set up for a great resurrection or a total flame out. Those first 4 games couldn't be an easier start to a schedule I can remember. This is not the Syracuse of the late 90s playing Tennessee At Michigan back 2 back.

If he can make the putt and put us 4-0 out of the gates (and the opponents are such that we should be HEALTHY) he can put together the 7-8 win season to propel the team back to where it should be. However if we start 2-2 i think there will be ALOT of pressure on JW to start the new coach weather machine.

 

[Acesn8s]

Yes, Dino will get another year.

Did you get today's email from SU's Development Office? SU has raised nearly $1 billion during this period, en route to their $1.5 billion goal. So, don't even start telling me money is problem.

Thank you, this like this 100000x

 

[Cusefan69]

It’s funny you have brought this up before, the counter point is simple, big time college sports is a business. For better or worse it’s a business. And Also I would argue anybody, me included who use their $$$ and who makes donations and who buys season tickets regularly and makes even small investments in the University, which I do all of those those people have the right to give their opinion. You will have a real problem when a bunch of us small time people start adding up because the product isn’t worth the investments. That being said I will be honest, I will always be invested because I love it. I still went to games all throughout the Greg Robinson era so I will do it now as well. But when the University is paying Babers multiples of what they paid Grob and the product is just as bad that’s the issue.

So if it’s a business and I would agree with you that for better or worse it is, let me ask you one question. The CEO of that business JW has already made the decision Dino is safe. He knows better than anyone what is going on up there on the hill and ALL the dynamics of the decision. So is your issue with Wildhack who is more informed than anyone on this board about what is going on?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Thank you, this like this 100000x

You guys just don't get it with this logic. Not worth debating. Do you think WIldhack has cart blanche access to that billion. Crazy.

 

[JRHEETER]

So if it’s a business and I would agree with you that for better or worse it is, let me ask you one question. The CEO of that business JW has already made the decision Dino is safe. He knows better than anyone what is going on up there on the hill and ALL the dynamics of the decision. So is your issue with Wildhack who is more informed than anyone on this board about what is going on?

Wildhack said he was safe with an asterisk.

He followed saying he was safe by also saying “but this is a results driven business”


however, I more than expect Dino to be back next season. And from the looks of our team we will be a 2 win maybe 3 win team at best

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yes, Dino will get another year.

Did you get today's email from SU's Development Office? SU has raised nearly $1 billion during this period, en route to their $1.5 billion goal. So, don't even start telling me money is problem.

Surely you can't be serious, again it's about financial responsibility as well among 10,000 other factors