I ride with Dino...

[orange79]

Yes, Dino will get another year.

Did you get today's email from SU's Development Office? SU has raised nearly $1 billion during this period, en route to their $1.5 billion goal. So, don't even start telling me money is problem.

You don't understand how colleges (particularly private colleges) work, do you?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Yes, Dino will get another year.

Did you get today's email from SU's Development Office? SU has raised nearly $1 billion during this period, en route to their $1.5 billion goal. So, don't even start telling me money is problem.

Yes. $1 billion in SCHOLARSHIP funds for Newhouse or Whitman students.

Asking people for money for academic pursuits is never a problem.

Asking people for money for new jock straps always is.

Priorities.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yes. $1 billion in SCHOLARSHIP funds for Newhouse or Whitman students.

Asking people for money for academic pursuits is never a problem.

Asking people for money for new jock straps always is.

and then using jock strap money to fire a coach and pay him $15 mil while other programs will get cut etc etc.

 

[Acesn8s]

So if it’s a business and I would agree with you that for better or worse it is, let me ask you one question. The CEO of that business JW has already made the decision Dino is safe. He knows better than anyone what is going on up there on the hill and ALL the dynamics of the decision. So is your issue with Wildhack who is more informed than anyone on this board about what is going on?

No, my issue isn’t with Wildhack. He is way more informed then I am of course. JW did not give a ringing endorsement for Dino let’s be clear. ADs all over the country say the same thing. He is in a tough spot. He gave an extension to a coach to a coach who clearly isn’t doing what needs to be done to make this football team a consistently good program. Listen here is my final thought I have owned several businesses in my life and there is always one constant you will always have to make some tough choices. Do I fix something now or do I replace it all together, do I invest in latest technology now knowing I’m going to do it three years down the road anyway or do I make the best of what I got and hold off? Well I’m telling you now that’s all we are talking about with Babers. Do we rip off band aid now or do we hold out then do it in a year or 2?

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Yes. $1 billion in SCHOLARSHIP funds for Newhouse or Whitman students.

Asking people for money for academic pursuits is never a problem.

Asking people for money for new jock straps always is.

Priorities.

Oh! And somehow they found $100 million to renovate the Dome, an ATHLETIC FACILITY.

 

[Cusefan69]

Wildhack said he was safe with an asterisk.

He followed saying he was safe by also saying “but this is a results driven business”


however, I more than expect Dino to be back next season. And from the looks of our team we will be a 2 win maybe 3 win team at best

Of course its results driven and his first words on the matter were he is safe. Certainly that can change as all people have the right to change their position upon additional data. Maybe he does find money...maybe the last game was the straw and just maybe if the AD of a P5 school tells us that this year has been crazy and Dino is safe that his his position. Again he knows all the dynamics of what is going on here better than anyone. Period. I trust JW because there is no reason to not trust his thinking on the matter. That doesn’t mean people can’t question but hearing the same people question it every single day just gets tiresome. For most of us, we get it. We all want a successful program. The AD has spoken...barring him changing his mind the decision has been made.

 

[Cusefan69]

and then using jock strap money to fire a coach and pay him $15 mil while other programs will get cut etc etc.

Then pony up another $5 to $6m for the new staff and HC.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Oh! And somehow they found $100 million to renovate the Dome, an ATHLETIC FACILITY.

Investing in a facility that'll last 40 years makes a helluva lot more sense than buying out one losing coach just to replace him with another losing coach who'll get fired in 2025 anyways.

I suppose you'll be making the rounds with your hat in hand asking for money for that as well in a few years.

 

[Acesn8s]

Investing in a facility that'll last 40 years makes a helluva lot more sense than buying out one losing coach just to replace him with another losing coach who'll get fired in 2025 anyways.

I suppose you'll be making the rounds with your hat in hand asking for money for that as well in a few years.

The idea is to win! So ideally you just keep a coach who knows how to win, not replace him in 2025.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

I appreciate the attempt and thought put into it, honestly thank you.

1. I don't think you can put this on him or S&C 100%. Sometimes, injuries blow up a position group. There are teams all over that deal with this. Our weird luck is that it happened 2 years in a row. And our position in the recruiting world can hamstring our depth a bit.

2. I think this one is the one I agree with the most. I think he's been too picky and they've missed on guys they thought they had. Chance leaving sucks. Fortin not picking us was bad for him and us. He'd have been better than Rex/Morgan for sure. That's on Dino.

3. I like our WRs, aside from Harris's attitude. Alford looks like a player. Queeley is steady. N. Johnson is ACC caliber.

4. We did ok vs NC State. I think this is more getting used to scheme than talent this season. I do agree that we could do better here overall.

5. I think play calling is almost always classic 20/20 hindsight stuff. That last sequence was insanely bad for all involved. But it was one game that didn't matter that much big picture.

6. Ok. Boiler plate asterisk stuff 1st: No camp, 2 new coordinators, pandemic + BLM, 2 best players opt out, playing 4 string freshman RB, like 7 Def Freshman, weird OL injuries, 1st string QB out, 3rd string QB out, mental load during COVID, etc.

Let's take all of that and add a focus on strength of schedule. This is the third hardest schedule we've faced in 46 years:

Year/HC	SoS (0 is avg)	Simple Rating System (0 is avg)	Record
1984/Mac	8.11	8.30	6-5
2001/Pasq	6.23	13.54	10-3
2020/Babers	5.86	-7.64	1-9
2017/Babers	5.80	1.96	4-8

I'm staying out of the fray on the should he stay or should he go argument. Had to chime in on the SRS though as its a very weak analytical tool and there are so many better advanced statistical models. I think you know that though based upon prior conversations we've had regarding the same. Using it to bolster or undermine and argument isn't quite the hammer someone may think. Its actually quite weak.

For clarity though, SOS is already built into the SRS rating so posting both statistics is duplicative and doesn't add anything to the SRS rating.

You should have at least posted the disclaimer that SRS (if you've used the most common model) has Cincinnati and Buffalo as the #3 and #4 teams in the country right now. Not sure what one would say about that using this "rating" system.

 

[PatMark]

It's close enough between Mason/Muschamp/Babers to make your point moot.

We lost 2 NFL players due to opt outs this year. We don't recruit like Penn State and Michigan - so it's not all that different. The point was that this year is wacky and hard to judge anyone's career by. It's an asterisk year - always was.

Gerg's 2005 team was *way* worse with no asterisks, no pandemics, etc etc:

Year/HC	SoS (0 is avg)	SRS (0 is avg)	Yards per Play	Points per Game
2005/Gerg	2.87	-10.95	4.0	13.8
2020/Babers	5.86	-7.64	4.2	17.5

EDIT: Gerg has the third and fourth worst years in our history according to SRS. Dino's 2020 is at 8th.
EDIT x2: I originally had the chart mixed up. All fixed now.

Thank you for making my point. Dino's Year 5 on offense is comparable to Greg's Year 1. That's a sad state of affairs.

Also your point about "this year's schedule is the toughest!" is also moot. Of course it is, we don't have a FCS and/or MAC school on the schedule and are playing only our conference peers. Take the conference only schedules since we've been in the ACC and then you'll have an accurate comparison.

Look, I know realistically Dino won't be fired this year. But there is certainly a case to be made. We can't keep moving the goalposts by saying this year is weird when plenty of other teams have gone through the same kind of changes (including two just down the road from us) and have been WAY more competitive and prepared than the 2020 Syracuse team. You can't debate that part.

 

[gmoney44]

yes to all of this. Dino is the guy in 2021. To me the schedule is set up for a great resurrection or a total flame out. Those first 4 games couldn't be an easier start to a schedule I can remember. This is not the Syracuse of the late 90s playing Tennessee At Michigan back 2 back.

If he can make the putt and put us 4-0 out of the gates (and the opponents are such that we should be HEALTHY) he can put together the 7-8 win season to propel the team back to where it should be. However if we start 2-2 i think there will be ALOT of pressure on JW to start the new coach weather machine.

I guess I don’t interpret our schedule the same as you next year. Even with decent improvement across the board for us I see a 2 - 4 win team next year. I hope like hell Im wrong and Dino pulls a rabbit out of his hat.

 

[CousCuse]

If they had made that investment while Marrone was coach, he would still have jumped to the NFL.

And would still be an arrogant jerk.

Well from what I've gathered by reading tea leaves, since nothing is opaque with the football program, he asked for raises for his assistant coaches because they were being paid way below the P5 rate and he would not be able to keep a staff together. They said no, he left and those same coaches went with him to the Bills and they got substantial raises. If they had said yes he would have stayed. I believe he's perceived to be a jerk because he demanded facility upgrades, which were way over due, in order to compete in the ACC. It's really a he said, she said situation.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I guess I don’t interpret our schedule the same as you next year. Even with decent improvement across the board for us I see a 2 - 4 win team next year. I hope like hell Im wrong and Dino pulls a rabbit out of his hat.

A mediocre team can easily have an 8-5 record next year with this schedule. The question is how far away from mediocre are we? If we are close then we can pull it off. If we are far then a losing season is a given.

 

[Finwad32]

JW absolutely loves Dino.

 

[oldpinepoint]

These posts are hilarious, yes the school is hurting for money. Even more so now that the dome is finished and it isn’t generating any revenue. Endowments doesn’t go to the athletic budget. The funds are earmarked for education. IB has made many valid points and I get the disappointment on the season. But if you want a new coach I suggest you raid your trust funds, brokerage accounts and whatever else and donate to the university.

a few things I worry about firing a coach this year
1. Perception to any prospective coaches- this has been a horrible year, everything bad that could happen, did happen. If I were a coach looking to come to Syracuse would you want too? No support during one of the worst periods ever in modern history? Besides all the bad luck, it would have been a crap season. I would rather show support for another year and if he doesn’t have significant improvement then you look elsewhere. Only thing that is desirable about Syracuse is it’s a P5 program, that’s it. We are a bottom 10 program and have been for 20 years. I don’t want to hear anything about our history, yes we were good in the 50’s and early 60’s and for a decade in the nineties but it’s called history for a reason. Most outside of our fans don’t give a sh_it.
2. We have none, and you would
Need to raise at least $20mm, this isn’t coming out of our general fund. We need every dollar going to the program to maximize its value. Spending $20mm is not a wise choice of funds. Your best option is waiting another year and seeing how it goes. Also gives time for the University to raise some funds if they do decide to move in.
3.Recruiting, by all accounts this is a better class but we have all heard that before. I would not want to try and salvage a recruiting class during the pandemic. No visits except on your own, extended quiet Periods, forget it. The pandemic has actually helped our class by limiting visits, summer camps etc. a new staff could set us back even further.

bottom line: smart money is to wait at least a year and see if things can get turned around. But Dino will Need to hit the transfer portals hard. It worked for Rutgers and they are having themselves a much better season. I need to see some adjustments and some thought out into the off-season, because whatever we are doing now and have been for the last two years isn’t working.

 

[Briancuse]

JW absolutely loves Dino.

Does he love going 1-10 and being embarrassed?

 

[bigmike]

Money. People love to throw it around when it's not theirs.

I stick with him because he will be the head coach at Syracuse next year, pretty plain and simple. I also have been down this road before as most have too. Waiting to fire the current coach, hiring new coach, head coach doesn't know what the job really entails, being patient while they "get their guys", accusing them of not developing their guys and winning with previous coaches guys, can't recruit, can't win... waiting to fire current coach, wash rinse and repeat

Hooked me with the first line, classic.

 

[Finwad32]

Does he love going 1-10 and being embarrassed?

I don’t know, you should ask him if you’re wondering.

 

[Alsacs]

Just put a functioning division 1 offense on the field next year.

I don’t care if we have Lamson, and DeVito back we need another QB.

I am sick of going into the season thin at QB.

If we had a superstar it would make some sense but we don’t.

Invest in a good technical OL coach.
We need an improved OL.

The defense will be okay.
Dino gets 1 more year.

You can’t have 1 bowl season in 6 years and keep your job.

 

[JeremyCuse]

These type of arguments always happen when a coach is nearing the end. They happened back in the day with P, with Grob, Shafer his last year was full of posts like this (go back and take a look if you have a few hours to burn and now again with Babers. We all know that he will be back next year (mostly because of money concerns but not only that) and it's also clear barring a major turn around (which is possible by the way), that he may be out of a job a year from now. Wildhack is an extremely smart person and AD who knows how to do his job. He is getting an earful across the board about the fball program and it was no conincidence there was a change at both coordinator spots last season. Either the record and the team show major improvement next season or the hammer drops its as simple as that.

 

[TheCusian]

It matters!!! The guy is making Millions of dollars this year!!!! He isn’t giving his salary back is he? Guys are getting fired across the country sent they? There will be a national title game, and a conference championship game.

Guys are getting fired at schools in the SEC. I’m not arguing he did a good job. I’m arguing that it’s hard to judge anyone given the hand that got dealt to him this year.

Don’t fool yourself, this championship won’t be like the others.

 

[Bayside44]

This team? No. But I don't have the energy to give the COVID-BOILER PLATE-ASTERISK again.

Doug's last team vs Dino's 2018 team would be something.

There have been three or four versions of "this team" this season.

 

[Bayside44]

Yes, Dino will get another year.

Did you get today's email from SU's Development Office? SU has raised nearly $1 billion during this period, en route to their $1.5 billion goal. So, don't even start telling me money is problem.

That's not how the coach gets bought out. It took forever to raise funds for an actual building by the AD for the Melo Center, and that's the franchise here.

 

[TheCusian]

No, my issue isn’t with Wildhack. He is way more informed then I am of course. JW did not give a ringing endorsement for Dino let’s be clear. ADs all over the country say the same thing. He is in a tough spot. He gave an extension to a coach to a coach who clearly isn’t doing what needs to be done to make this football team a consistently good program. Listen here is my final thought I have owned several businesses in my life and there is always one constant you will always have to make some tough choices. Do I fix something now or do I replace it all together, do I invest in latest technology now knowing I’m going to do it three years down the road anyway or do I make the best of what I got and hold off? Well I’m telling you now that’s all we are talking about with Babers. Do we rip off band aid now or do we hold out then do it in a year or 2?

This is wrong. With coaches, you ride them until they are poached from you or you don’t think they can do the job (which is not just w/l record).

The people who think he can’t do the job are basing it on the worst year to judge a HC by. And they don’t factor in the buyout and athletic department budgets.