If I were Autry

[djcon57]

On the team? I don’t know. Highest paid portal player for sure.

So, I’m curious your answer to my question above.

We are not able to compete with SEC money I’ve said this repeatedly

 

[richmondcuse03]

^This^

The "Red is reluctant to ask donors for NIL" might have been true last season. But, think even that might have been exaggerated. I know with certainty that Red has spent a lot of time fund-raising this season. There is a growing sense that his time spent fund raising is taking away from the time he should be devoting to the team.

During the season specifically?

 

[Bayside44]

Yet you have no issues dropping numbers for Jesse last year and Leffew.

It’s so transparent it hurts

I have truly no idea what you're talking about. I've never talked to anyone about Eddie Lampkin on any real level. He clearly rises the blood pressure of a lot of people.

 

[miamicuse]

Did I say that? What’s unique is blaming Red for any of those things, as they are outside his control.

Not outside his control, now we are doing the chicken vs egg thing.

Leffew agreed to come, and Georgia up the bid, Leffew wants more $, it's Red's decision to not match or raise, and save the extra $ for the out of shape Lampkin. Why Lampkin? Was Lampkin a plan A or a panic plan B?

The year prior, same situation with Jesse, not matching the 800k WV gave him, we ended up with McCleod, who barely played both years. Was McCleod also a panic Plan C?

Would the situation be better if we had Jesse in year 1 and Leffew in year 2? We would never know, but those are his choices, within his control. Not saying those were easy choices because paying Jesse could mean losing Judah or paying Leffew could mean no Bell, who knows, we get the benefit of hindsight, but he has a NIL budget he needs to get the players he wants and stay inside that budget. Not outside his control.

Starling, Westry, McCleod, Lampkin, year 1 Cuff, all with injuries, just bad luck that they got insured or Red stockpiled injury prone players for some reason? Who knows, again he went after these players, perhaps if Westry was completely healthy we couldn't have afforded him, so Red rolled the dice and crossed his fingers and it didn't pay dividend.

These are all directly or indirectly his choices. I don't envy to have to make these choices. Perhaps Red is too much of a straight shooter and felt once they shook hands on it if they reneged on it he wouldn't rework the deals out of honor, which I completely understand because I am the same way in business, your words are your words and all that. But this is way it is and these are 19,20,21 year old kids, and a successful coach in this climate may need to be a bit of a snakeoil salesman like John Calipari, and that's why Jay Wright and Tony Bennett bailed.

 

[djcon57]

This is correct.

So how were we able to get Lampkin his car and bumped up his NIL by 100 percent?

Did Lampkin screw us? Yes, but don’t tell me we didn’t choose him.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Not outside his control, now we are doing the chicken vs egg thing.

Leffew agreed to come, and Georgia up the bid, Leffew wants more $, it's Red's decision to not match or raise, and save the extra $ for the our of shape Lampkin. Why Lampkin? Was Lampkin a plan A or a panic plan B?

The year prior, same situation with Jesse, not matching the 800k WV gave him, we ended up with McCleod, who barely played both years. Was McCleod also a panic Plan C?

Would the situation be better if we had Jesse in year 1 and Leffew in year 2? We would never know, but those are his choices, within his control. Not saying those were easy choices because paying Jesse could mean losing Judah or paying Leffew could mean no Bell, who knows, we get the benefit of hindsight, but he has a NIL budget he needs to get the players he wants and stay inside that budget. Not outside his control.

Starling, Westry, McCleod, Lampkin, year 1 Cuff, all with injuries, just bad luck that they got insured or Red stockpiled injury prone players for some reason? Who knows, again he went after these players, perhaps if Westry was completely healthy we couldn't have afforded him, so Red rolled the dice and crossed his fingers and it didn't pay dividend.

These are all directly or indirectly his choices. I don't envy to have to make these choices. Perhaps Red is too much of a straight shooter and felt once they shook hands on it if they reneged on it he wouldn't rework the deals out of honor, which I completely understand because I am the same way in business, your words are your words and all that. But this is way it is and these are 19,20,21 year old kids, and a successful coach in this climate may need to be a bit of a snakeoil salesman like John Calipari, and that's why Jay Wright and Tony Bennett bailed.

Sadly, this is always going to happen if you have to go after portal guys. It's a lot easier to retain guys than use the portal. I don't think it's realistic for a school like Syracuse to rely on the portal.

 

[Jake]

So how were we able to get Lampkin his car and bumped up his NIL by 100 percent?

Did Lampkin screw us? Yes, but don’t tell me we didn’t choose him.

I guess I’m not following. We definitely chose him. Never said otherwise. I don’t think we seriously pursued another big.

 

[MikeSU02]

The vast majority of the posters here understand this. The fans here are asking to complete with the likes of Wake Forest, I know, seems impossible

Exactly.

With what we have in terms of resources is making the NCAAT, at any seeding, a fair expectation?

Because I would wager that we should be able to do that.

I don’t care about the SEC teams, especially the ones at the top. Everyone knows the SEC has more money. That’s not news. That’s why we’re not asking to go to the Final Four. We’re asking to make the tournament. Or just beat Wake Forest at home. Or not go to OT with Youngstown St at home.

Now, we had to wade through the nonsense of Eddie being all world and hilariously being told he was in shape and could play D. And the absurdity of Jaquan’s capabilities PR spin.

This staff and program got worked by Eddie. They made a bad bet and got beat fully. The fact that they even targeted an out of shape center who isn’t good on D is hilarious to even begin with.

They also left us in the lurch at PG at a depressed level arguably never seen before in this program’s history.

Couple this with the inability of Red to coach and we’re where we are. Doesn’t make Red a bad guy.

We bet big on the wrong guys. Got beat in the process and are stuck where we are.

 

[djcon57]

I guess I’m not following. We definitely chose him. Never said otherwise. I don’t think we pursued another big.

I’m saying we chose to give him a car and bump his NIL up 100 because we felt we needed him on this team.

Matter of fact statement that you and I agree with.

I don’t believe he was worth it. I debated with you at the time about it. Period. I believe we would have been better using the funds on a PG.

So when I see thinks like “we couldn’t pay for so and so”. I say BS. We couldn’t pay for Lampkin AND a PG. I’ll agree with that

 

[5OutFred]

The aforementioned volatility of the portal and this whole discussion makes it even that much more crucial that Red have down the in-game coaching and on-court system itself.

Which is what worries beyond anything else, compounded on top of this all.

 

[MikeSU02]

I can share this -- we got Lampkin originally for about half of what we ended up having to pay him. Kid was excited to come here, and committed to Syracuse not long after he showed out in the NCAA tournament.

The coaching staff crossed center off the list, and started working other players in the portal to fill other needs. Several weeks later, Lampkin came back to the coaching staff with a much higher demand. Why? Because an SEC school in his home state made overtures, and bid him up.

Chip and Bayside can probably speak to this better, but the hoops program has some mathematical models about how much they think players are "worth." What Lampkin asked for exceeded the value that they projected, but at that late stage we couldn't pivot easily and didn't have alternatives, so they came up with the extra $$$. And when he dragged his feet and came back with additional demands, we ponied up [and not all of the demands were cash considerations].

Bottom line, what we ended up paying for Lampkin and what we initially got him for were two different numbers. That MAY have impacted the NIL coffers and limited how we could spend on other players -- but to me the bottom line is that it was merely a symptom of the actual problem, that our NIL war chest is too small

I appreciate the comment RF2044. But one note, what you’re describing in terms of him getting bid up happens all over the place (which I’m not saying your post meant this as exclusive to Cuse). Also, those models — every team has those. That’s the baseline to keeping up with the joneses.

Shorter - what you’re describing is how the system works and what you have to do and deal with.

We made bad bets and lost. Is what it is. They better be better at this for next season if Red and co are sticking around.

 

[djcon57]

Exactly.

With what we have in terms of resources is making the NCAAT, at any seeding, a fair expectation?

Because I would wager that we should be able to do that.

I don’t care about the SEC teams, especially the ones at the top. Everyone knows the SEC has more money. That’s not news. That’s why we’re not asking to go to the Final Four. We’re asking to make the tournament. Or just beat Wake Forest at home. Or not go to OT with Youngstown St at home.

Now, we had to wade through the nonsense of Eddie being all world and hilariously being told he was in shape and could play D. And the absurdity of Jaquan’s capabilities PR spin.

This staff and program got worked by Eddie. They made a bad bet and got beat fully. The fact that they even targeted an out of shape center who isn’t good on D is hilarious to even begin with.

They also left us in the lurch at PG at a depressed level arguably never seen before in this program’s history.

Couple this with the inability of Red to coach and we’re where we are. Doesn’t make Red a bad guy.

We bet big on the wrong guys. Got beat in the process and are stuck where we are.

Class of 2020 - Jyare Davis (DE) TRANSFERRING TO SYRACUSE (4/15/24)

Jyare Davis is a 6'7 forward from Delaware who originally committed to Providence in 2020 (redshirt). He has been at Delaware since and is in the portal. ;) Jyare would make a huge impact off the bench at either forward spot. He has one year of eligibility left. Why not come to Syracuse...

syracusefan.com

Just need to read this thread to understand the context.

As you said at the time “So, why'd they get him? You take the date that says yes, that's why.”

They actually thought Lampkin was a game changer.

 

[richmondcuse03]

The aforementioned volatility of the portal and this whole discussion makes it even that much more crucial that Red have down the in-game coaching and on-court system itself.

Which is what worries beyond anything else, compounded on top of this all.

agree. I would be perfectly fine with Red focusing on HS recruiting and excelling there. It's the in-game piece we need to fix. Perhaps it's a terrible blend of guys, but he still chose them this time so it's on him. He can't do that again and I don't think he's going to get supportive donors for portal targets given what happened with Eddie.

 

[djcon57]

I have truly no idea what you're talking about. I've never talked to anyone about Eddie Lampkin on any real level. He clearly rises the blood pressure of a lot of people.

No more than Daniel Jones does a Giant fan. I have nothing against Lampkin personally. Seems like a fun guy.

 

[Day2]

Not outside his control, now we are doing the chicken vs egg thing.

Leffew agreed to come, and Georgia up the bid, Leffew wants more $, it's Red's decision to not match or raise, and save the extra $ for the our of shape Lampkin. Why Lampkin? Was Lampkin a plan A or a panic plan B?

The year prior, same situation with Jesse, not matching the 800k WV gave him, we ended up with McCleod, who barely played both years. Was McCleod also a panic Plan C?

Would the situation be better if we had Jesse in year 1 and Leffew in year 2? We would never know, but those are his choices, within his control. Not saying those were easy choices because paying Jesse could mean losing Judah or paying Leffew could mean no Bell, who knows, we get the benefit of hindsight, but he has a NIL budget he needs to get the players he wants and stay inside that budget. Not outside his control.

Starling, Westry, McCleod, Lampkin, year 1 Cuff, all with injuries, just bad luck that they got insured or Red stockpiled injury prone players for some reason? Who knows, again he went after these players, perhaps if Westry was completely healthy we couldn't have afforded him, so Red rolled the dice and crossed his fingers and it didn't pay dividend.

These are all directly or indirectly his choices. I don't envy to have to make these choices. Perhaps Red is too much of a straight shooter and felt once they shook hands on it if they reneged on it he wouldn't rework the deals out of honor, which I completely understand because I am the same way in business, your words are your words and all that. But this is way it is and these are 19,20,21 year old kids, and a successful coach in this climate may need to be a bit of a snakeoil salesman like John Calipari, and that's why Jay Wright and Tony Bennett bailed.

Your timeline is off. We already had Lampkin wrapped up before anything happened with Leffew. Ironically, Lampkin wound up holding out for the money we wouldn’t give Leffew (and then some, from the sound of it). Red probably didn’t want to get burned a third time after Edwards and Leffew.

A quick word on injuries. Starling’s shoulders had nothing to do with him breaking his wrist and Westry’s knees had nothing to do with him getting mono. You might be onto something with going after injured players because of the discount. (On the other hand, both Starling and Westry were already on our radar when they were HS seniors, so it was more likely that.) It’s reasonable to fault Red for taking a chance on a guy with a bad knee who wound up injuring the other knee. It’s not reasonable to fault Red when the same player gets mono after the knee injuries are potentially behind him.

 

[Bayside44]

No more than Daniel Jones does a Giant fan. I have nothing against Lampkin personally. Seems like a fun guy.

Now you're being mean...

My 10000% gripe with this team is the PG situation and how it's basically crumbled around that, then doubling down losing JJ. Why Reynolds and Leffew situations burn me.

 

[djcon57]

Now you're being mean...

My 10000% gripe with this team is the PG situation and how it's basically crumbled around that, then doubling down losing JJ. Why Reynolds and Leffew situations burn me.

We all agree.

My wish is that they paid a PG first. That's all.

 

[Jake]

Class of 2020 - Jyare Davis (DE) TRANSFERRING TO SYRACUSE (4/15/24)

Jyare Davis is a 6'7 forward from Delaware who originally committed to Providence in 2020 (redshirt). He has been at Delaware since and is in the portal. ;) Jyare would make a huge impact off the bench at either forward spot. He has one year of eligibility left. Why not come to Syracuse...

syracusefan.com

Just need to read this thread to understand the context.

As you said at the time “So, why'd they get him? You take the date that says yes, that's why.”

They actually thought Lampkin was a game changer.

They did. They believed he would provide a more physical presence underneath. I think his back issues have limited his effectiveness.

They got Davis to fill the role they wanted Maliq to play.

But these aren’t the biggest problems on the team. As we’ve all seen, the talent evaluation of Carlos was catastrophic.

It’s almost impossible to see how this team would function otherwise with another PG.

 

[djcon57]

They did. They believed he would provide a more physical presence underneath. I think his back issues have limited his effectiveness.

They got Davis to fill the role they wanted Maliq to play.

But these aren’t the biggest problems on the team. As we’ve all seen, the talent evaluation of Carlos was catastrophic.

It’s almost impossible to see how this team would function otherwise with another PG.

I'm hoping we'll get to see if/when JJ gets back.

If we see something semi-positive by the end of the year at least we can point to that as a viable excuse.

 

[UpstateSM]

We can argue about NIL and roster construction until 5am like I do with my buddies but at the end of the day the coaching is as bad as it gets in college basketball and if that's the case it doesn't particularly matter who is on the team

 

[kingtidge]

As you said at the time “So, why'd they get him? You take the date that says yes, that's why.”

They actually thought Lampkin was a game changer.

We were told Carlos was as well and that the staff was VERY EXCITED to land him and considered him a high talent for the position.

We're playing whiffle ball it would seem.

 

[Jake]

I'm hoping we'll get to see if/when JJ gets back.

If we see something semi-positive by the end of the year at least we can point to that as a viable excuse.

Agreed. If we’re getting 35 min of Carlos in Mid January…ugh.

Just don’t know what I’d do in the backcourt along JJ. Cuffe? Choppa? Taylor?

 

[Chip]

Chip and Bayside can probably speak to this better, but the hoops program has some mathematical models about how much they think players are "worth."

I can't speak to it any better, but can just say that it is something they've developed and it's what they are pitching to all the high rollers (and to me).

I'm in no position to say how accurate it is, but it's clearly something they put a lot of time and thought into. Everyone I talked to separately at the event thought it was well presented and seemed to make sense.

This also has zippy to do with how Red is as an actual Xs and Os coach. Again, something way way way outside my pay grade or knowledge level.

But all I do know is that at this point:

 

[djcon57]

Agreed. If we’re getting 35 min of Carlos in Mid January…ugh.

Just don’t know what I’d do in the backcourt along JJ. Cuffe? Choppa? Taylor?

I’d like to see JJ Moore Taylor Freeman Lampkin start

I’d try Cuffe and JJ in the backcourt

I’d like to see JJ Taylor Davis Freeman Lampkin trotted out there for more than a couple mins as well.

Will it work? Who knows. But we all know 30+ mins of Carlos hasn’t and won’t.

 

[Bayside44]

We all agree.

My wish is that they paid a PG first. That's all.

That's fair I agree, I'd rather have either of those guys and a project down low, esp seeing the product.

We *should* be able to get to an NIL where it's not an either / or.