If Jerami Grant slips into the second round tonight...

[two3zone]

This year's draft was universally deeper and considered to be of much higher top-end quality than last year's draft. That undoubtedly played a factor.

It was a deep draft there is no getting around that, but that was known even before last years draft happened.

Boeheim thought both should come back - especially Grant. Jake, the resident basketball guru on the board, has stated it was a "horrific" decision. Yet some here believe he would have been drafted lower next year. I'm at a loss for words and am going to stop arguing with people who simply do not understand the process.

What was your view on MCW and Waiters at the time? Flynn? Actually, what player outside of Melo in your and Jake's opinion was actually smart to go when they did?

 

[RF2044]

It was a deep draft there is no getting around that, but that was known even before last years draft happened.

Precisely--it was. That's why people thought Marcus Smart was crazy for not entering last year's draft. Not because he couldn't improve his game, but because he was in contention for being the #1 pick last year, but would never be this year.

 

[SUFan44]

It was a deep draft there is no getting around that, but that was known even before last years draft happened.


What was your view on MCW and Waiters at the time? Flynn? Actually, what player outside of Melo in your and Jake's opinion was actually smart to go when they did?

Flynn, MCW and Waiters were lottery picks. Flynn was ready to play in the NBA - he averaged 13.5 ppg and 4.4 apg as a rookie before getting hurt. Waiters was our best offensive player and has/had a tremendous amount of ability that anyone could see. And MCW led us to the Final Four and, while not having a great outside shot, has/had the passing ability and size to be an elite NBA PG.

Wesley Johnson was smart to go - he had a great year as a junior and even though he couldn't and still can't dribble more than twice in succession, he has carved out a niche in the NBA after being guaranteed his first contract.

Grant was never the featured player on a Syracuse team - he was at best our third option last year (Fair, Ennis) and has no defining skill other than athleticism - which is great at the college level but everyone has it in the NBA. He has some tools that I think need refining - but it's going to be exponentially harder to refine those in the NBA, IMO, as a second round pick than it would be as a first rounder.

 

[tbonezone]

kid did not grow up in poverty.in fact his family is considered uber-wealthy by most USA standards.
he had carved for himself a pretty regular gig on the espn college highlight reel with some spectacular dunks and next year he would have been showcased even more. his game is not NBA ready. the early jump a What.

 

[two3zone]

kid did not grow up in poverty.in fact his family is considered uber-wealthy by most USA standards.
he had carved for himself a pretty regular gig on the espn college highlight reel with some spectacular dunks and next year he would have been showcased even more. his game is not NBA ready. the early jump a What.

You're the Grant's bookeeper? It's safe to assume they have money, but it would have been safe to assume that AI, Antoine Walker, and Derrick Coleman are sitting on hundreds of millions.

 

[Briancuse]

No doubt. But bring a 2nd rounder isn't a death knell either. He can still have a career.

Sure, but he would have been better served by coming back for a year. Wouldn't have killed the kid coming back to syracuse for a year, like some people make it out to be.

 

[tbonezone]

if you thinks his folks is broke (from what i read harvey made about 23 mill over 11 seasons) then a free education might be the best answer. cuz if you can't live ballin' on 23m then you best have a second trade.

(btw harvey went 12th)

 

[djcon57]

Sure, but he would have been better served by coming back for a year. Wouldn't have killed the kid coming back to syracuse for a year, like some people make it out to be.

This is your opinion.

 

[Briancuse]

This is your opinion.

It's the opinion of a lot of people including hof coaches and nba gms and scouts.

 

[two3zone]

if you thinks his folks is broke (from what i read harvey made about 23 mill over 11 seasons) then a free education might be the best answer. cuz if you can't live ballin' on 23m then you best have a second trade. (btw harvey went 12th)

Allen Iverson made over 200 million and he's broke.

Half of NBA players are broke after 5 years of being out of the league. Not saying Harvey is but it's a 50/50 chance he is. I just don't think it's easy to say that they have money.

23 mil, take out 9 for taxes, take out 3 for agents and you're down to 11 mil. House, house for momma, cars, clothing, the high life and there's not much left. Easy to go broke when the money stops coming in.

 

[djcon57]

It's the opinion of a lot of people including hof coaches and nba gms and scouts.

Sure...but again, ultimately it's an opinion. Honestly, it probably my opinion too. I tend to think he would've gone in the 1st round if he came back. Prob mid-late 1st round

But my opinions have been wrong before so when questioning one's life decisions vs say a lineup or referee's decision, I tend to want to make sure I qualify that these are opinions and not pass them off as facts

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Wesley Matthews went undrafted and it resulted in him making tens of millions of more dollars than had he been drafted.

 

[rrlbees]

But the question was whether it was a bad decision. That he went in the 2nd round shows it was a bad decision.

And to my original post we won't know for 2-3 years.

 

[Briancuse]

Sure...but again, ultimately it's an opinion. Honestly, it probably my opinion too. I tend to think he would've gone in the 1st round if he came back. Prob mid-late 1st round

But my opinions have been wrong before so when questioning one's life decisions vs say a lineup or referee's decision, I tend to want to make sure I qualify that these are opinions and not pass them off as facts

No one knows for sure what would have happened, but jb thought he needed another year, and judging by the fact that he was picked 39th, nba gms and scouts had the same feeling.

 

[rrlbees]

You say I have bad reading comprehension. Go back and read the original post. It didn't ask if being a 2nd round pick was a killer to his career. It didn't ask if he could still make the NBA or make money if he is drafted in the 2nd round. It asked if it was a mistake to leave early to be a 2nd round draft pick. Nobody leaves early to become a 2nd round draft pick. And he is a 1st rounder next year in a much weaker draft. Therefore, it was a mistake. (I'd also like to add that not once has anyone mentioned anything about what it would mean for him to Syracuse basketball if he returned - which you threw into one of your posts as if someone had said it.)

Whatever. I know I'm the one that said it wasn't a death knell. Those are my words. Get it? And what I said about his returning wasn't in response to anyone. Those too are my words. Is there a new rule that every thought posted has to be in response to someone?

 

[tbonezone]

aren't these forums designed for expressing ones opinions ?

 

[djcon57]

aren't these forums designed for expressing ones opinions ?

Absolutely. So state your opinion and don't pass them off as facts. That so hard?

 

[rrlbees]

A lot of guys here that watch a lot of hoop were not surprised about Grant being in the second round. His workouts weren't good because he isn't ready - which you can tell by watching the games.

Look at it this way. If it was obvious to SU fans he wasn't ready and would be 2nd round material, it was obvious to him and his father and uncle. It was also obvious to JB. So everyone close to him knew the truth. Not the media dimwits that do mock drafts. Yet, he STILL left. Maybe there is a good reason we don't even know about. So maybe it was the right decision for him.

 

[SUFan44]

Whatever. I know I'm the one that said it wasn't a death knell. Those are my words. Get it? And what I said about his returning wasn't in response to anyone. Those too are my words. Is there a new rule that every thought posted has to be in response to someone?

Absolutely not. You can believe whatever you wish. I don't have a problem with that at all. If you think it was a good decision to leave early in the deepest draft in a decade instead of coming back to be the focal point of an offense and get closer to guaranteeing yourself at least your first $2-3 million, that's your prerogative.

But you're taking objection to the majority of people that say it was a bad decision to enter the draft with what he knew at the time - the original question from the thread - by twisting the question and making arguments based on your question. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Francis03]

if you thinks his folks is broke (from what i read harvey made about 23 mill over 11 seasons) then a free education might be the best answer. cuz if you can't live ballin' on 23m then you best have a second trade.

(btw harvey went 12th)

I guess somebody hasn't heard about Harvey's alleged financial issues.

 

[rrlbees]

Absolutely not. You can believe whatever you wish. I don't have a problem with that at all. If you think it was a good decision to leave early in the deepest draft in a decade instead of coming back to be the focal point of an offense and get closer to guaranteeing yourself at least your first $2-3 million, that's your prerogative. But you're taking objection to the majority of people that say it was a bad decision to enter the draft with what he knew at the time - the original question from the thread - by twisting the question and making arguments based on your question. Doesn't make sense.

What I am saying is that we don't know if it was a good decision both because we won't know for 2-3 years what coin he will make and we also don't know his reasons for leaving.

 

[tbonezone]

well i'd repeat francis if that if dad has $ issues then get your free degree. ain't no guarantees.

 

[two3zone]

well i'd repeat if that if dad has $ issues then get your degree.

Any one of these guys have the option to go back to school when they're done playing basketball. Grants going to make enough money his first contract whether it's in the NBA or Europe to pay for the two years of school he has left.

 

[RF2044]

What I am saying is that we don't know if it was a good decision both because we won't know for 2-3 years what coin he will make and we also don't know his reasons for leaving.

I can buy this as being partially true. It's not like today--the day after he was drafted--we can proclaim how his entire career is going to unfold. Maybe Grant bucks the odds, makes the team, goes on to have a fine journeyman career [or more]. Maybe he'll become one of those second rounds picks that emerges as a starter, and they'll show his picture every year when the draft shifts into the second round as "evidence" that there is talent to be mined. His professional career is still being written.

But I also think that we can assess that his career has gotten off on the wrong foot in terms of how the draft unfolded for him, what the implications are of where he was selected, and what that means in terms of $$$ / the odds stacked against him of making the team and sticking long term.

 

[Bayside44]

You also felt MCW should have stayed, no?

Yeah, but I didn't appreciate the different type of defense that he would face in the NBA - not a lot of 5'10" guys picking your pocket there.

FWIW, he played on one of the worst teams of all time.