If Jerami Grant slips into the second round tonight...

[NineOneSeven]

It isn't hindsight, a lot of people said it when he announced his decision.

A lot of people also said it when waiters and mcw left. My point is it works both ways.

I get it. You're a syracusefan basketball fan who is bitter that a talented player left your team and ended up in a situation that can be perceived to be less desirable than staying on your team. Just admit it.

 

[rrlbees]

Cherry pick? I quoted your words man. If you didn't mean it, don't say it. Otherwise be prepared to defend them.

My words of giving a couple examples. Do you know what example are on context? Should I have listed 3 or 4 instead of 2?

 

[rrlbees]

Been mentioned for at least a year. http://www.pressboxdc.com/2014/06/23/demathas-jerami-grant-among-nba-draft-prospects Just the first example I grabbed.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[rrlbees]

A few numbers for you that I looked up real quick: According to P-S article about Jerami this week, 97.7 percent of collegiate first-round picks since 2008 have played at least two years in the NBA. 88 percent of college players drafted in the first round have gotten at least a fourth season. From a DraftExpress article: The most likely five-year outcome for the 574 picks made in the second round between 1980 and 2001 was that they were no longer playing in the NBA. Mixed in were a few bench players and, rarely, a starter or star. Of these players, 29% never played in an NBA game, 62% played fewer than 100 games, and 72% were not in the NBA within five years after being drafted. Not going to look up what has happened over the last 13 years in the 2nd round, but I'm sure the trend is similar.

Paul Milsap
Rashard Lewis
Stephen Jackson
Monta Ellis
Marc Gasol
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Manu Ginobili

And all their friends say hello.

 

[pearl31]

Getting drafted may have been his only goal.

Sorry man, but that's just bordering on absurd

 

[pearl31]

Tell that to all the 2nd rounders playing in the NBA.

Are you really going with that as your "it was a good decision for him" argument? You might want to look at the %s of 2nd round picks actually getting any PT over the years.
Sure, he can beat the odds, yada yada yada… as far as business decisions go, Jerami's has turned out to be a really bad one.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

You're right, but now was his time to capitalize on draft stock, that's the whole point.

Going in the second round with his upside was "capitalizing his draft stock"? Is there to be no NBA after next year? Will all the teams be out of money after next year? Would he have been hurt by returning and being a scoring focus next year?

If all of these are yes,then he made a brilliant decision. Do you really think he and his family figured he would be a second rounder?

There is a reason the teams have tryouts. You can't hide a lack of consistent shooting or strength. So staying another year gives you to opportunity to improve these areas. Thinking he would be exposed by another year just doesn't happen when you have to work out for the teams anyway.

 

[swish7]

Sucks to see Grant go. He could have helped us, and himself, next year. He does not appear to me to yet have all the tools required to succeed in the NBA. IMO his best bet would have been to come out of college with a huge bang, and maximize his guaranteed money potential. Lead a team deep into the tournament, or whatever the heck it is the Andrew Wiggins of the world do.

He has some potential for going the work hard and make it happen route. He is athletic and can jump high. However, there are a lot of guys just like him, maybe with less bounciness, but with positive attributes in areas where he is lacking. He was severely lacking in the strength area, even in college. The 2nd rounders whom succeed are much more well rounded than he. I don't need to wait 3 years to feel confident about that. If either side of the fence is wrong or right in 3 years, who really cares?

The announcers stated some sobering facts regarding the impact of 2nd rounders from last years draft. Basically stating that only 15 played XX amount of games, and only 4 could be considered significant contributors. I forget the numbers, but it was scary. Crazy to see some of these guys go way ahead of grant, after only averaging sub-10 points and rebounds in their respective European D leagues.

At the end of the day, it is his decision. He gave SU some good moments. Time to move on.

 

[rrlbees]

Sorry man, but that's just bordering on absurd

Sorry man, you sound like the other 2.

 

[rrlbees]

Are you really going with that as your "it was a good decision for him" argument? You might want to look at the %s of 2nd round picks actually getting any PT over the years. Sure, he can beat the odds, yada yada yada… as far as business decisions go, Jerami's has turned out to be a really bad one.

No , I'm going with that as my we don't know if it was a good decision.

 

[cuseattle]

Best of luck to Mr. Grant!!! And Mr Ennis and CJ!!!

 

[Briancuse]

A lot of people also said it when waiters and mcw left. My point is it works both ways.

I get it. You're a syracusefan basketball fan who is bitter that a talented player left your team and ended up in a situation that can be perceived to be less desirable than staying on your team. Just admit it.

I never knocked mcw and waiters for leaving, I thought both made the right choice. The only other su player I ever questioned for leaving early was donte. Of course we would be a better team next year with ennis and grant, but that had nothing to do with whether or not I thought they should go. I said Grant wasn't anywhere close to ready, and it wasn't a lock that he was going to be a first round draft pick.

 

[gmoney44]

I thought it was a bad decision by Grant/Grants family from the beginning. If they had a Mulligan I am fairly certain they would choose to come back for one more year. My opinion has nothing to do with SU basketball as I have seen in this thread. SU bball will be just fine without Grant.

All that being said the guy has got an opportunity to live his dream. It's up to him now and I wish him nothing but the best. I'll be cheering for him.

Go SU

 

[SUFan44]

Paul Milsap
Rashard Lewis
Stephen Jackson
Monta Ellis
Marc Gasol
Carlos Boozer
Gilbert Arenas
Manu Ginobili

And all their friends say hello.

Talk about cherry picking... for that list I can name 100 guys who haven't played a game in the NBA as second rounders. What's your point? Also, this has absolutely nothing to do with my wishes on him staying for the success of Syracuse basketball. I hope he makes it - I hope every Syracuse player makes it - but I'm being realistic and giving you the most likely outcome based on past history.

Yes, it CAN happen. Nobody said otherwise - at least not me. But the odds are stacked against him now. And he has no guaranteed NBA money, which gives the NBA teams the right to cut him at any time and not lose any sleep.

Does this mean he's going to be a failure? Absolutely not. But he didn't put himself in the best position he could by coming out this year. This was the deepest draft class in years - and everyone knew it, including Boeheim.

You can spin anything any way you want, but to make the argument that Grant made a good decision - or to even say we don't know if he did or not - based on what we knew at the time of his decision is crazy talk.

With all of the information he had following the college basketball season, his best decision was to stay.

 

[anglerman]

The Grant family made a terrible decision here. There's no questions about it. There's no way anyone comes out early to be a second round pick especially considering this families pedigree. It's not been a good year for the Grant family. Anyone saying this was a smart decision is either blinded or lying. This is actually an almost worst case scenario He might actually get cut, it's going to be an uphill battle.

 

[rrlbees]

Talk about cherry picking... for that list I can name 100 guys who haven't played a game in the NBA as second rounders. What's your point? Also, this has absolutely nothing to do with my wishes on him staying for the success of Syracuse basketball. I hope he makes it - I hope every Syracuse player makes it - but I'm being realistic and giving you the most likely outcome based on past history. Yes, it CAN happen. Nobody said otherwise - at least not me. But the odds are stacked against him now. And he has no guaranteed NBA money, which gives the NBA teams the right to cut him at any time and not lose any sleep. Does this mean he's going to be a failure? Absolutely not. But he didn't put himself in the best position he could by coming out this year. This was the deepest draft class in years - and everyone knew it, including Boeheim. You can spin anything any way you want, but to make the argument that Grant made a good decision - or to even say we don't know if he did or not - based on what we knew at the time of his decision is crazy talk. With all of the information he had following the college basketball season, his best decision was to stay.

My point us nobody said all 2nd rounders make it, but that dome do. Pretty simple. Like my words said, that you pointed out, it's not a death sentence.

 

[cuseincincy]

The Grant family made a terrible decision here. There's no questions about it. There's no way anyone comes out early to be a second round pick especially considering this families pedigree. It's not been a good year for the Grant family. Anyone saying this was a smart decision is either blinded or lying. This is actually an almost worst case scenario He might actually get cut, it's going to be an uphill battle.

Truth hurts. Some don't like it. Some prefer denial or try to rationalize. Bottom line is Jerami's year next year went from being the leader of a top 15 team where he woudl be the offensive focal point to being a likely D-League roster filler. The fact many refuse to acknowledge is he just does not have any NBA level skills right now. Athletic as heck but the athletic as heck palyers gettign drafted early are foreign players that won't even be expected to be on a roster for at least 2 years. He's going to make peanuts. But at least he won't have to go to class.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don't know Jerami Grant and I don't know what he going on on his life. It was his decision to make and I'm not going to judge it.

 

[OttoMets]

A few numbers for you that I looked up real quick:

According to P-S article about Jerami this week, 97.7 percent of collegiate first-round picks since 2008 have played at least two years in the NBA. 88 percent of college players drafted in the first round have gotten at least a fourth season.
...

That makes Fab Melo look especially inept.

 

[Full_Rebar]

$507,336- that's the NBA rookie minimum next year...not exactly working for peanuts

 

[OttoMets]

Oh, I agree that defenses are more than simply effort but if you're a talented guy who is determined to play defense, you can do it regardless of your background. To me, guys like Hak and John Wallace struggled more because they lacked the footspeed and quickness at the next level. Even Melo to some degree isn't the raw explosive athlete as much as an absolute offensive machine, Imo.

But on offense I'd argue it's not so much the system (which I'd agree is not terribly sophisticated) as it is the structure of the program. Guys who come in and have internal drive and motivation tend to excel and improve. Kids like Rautins and Fair and Allen Griffen and Damone Brown and Arinze Onuaku seem to squeeze every ounce out of their talent. But then there are guys who either aren't told to make certain adjustments or simply don't do it. Rick Jackson didn't lose weight until he was a senior? Kris Joseph went four years and never bothered to develop any semblence of a back to the basket game? Rak is three years in and every bit as raw offensively as he was as a freshman?

I'm not trying to knock those guys individually, but if I were going to knock this program I'd argue that one big issue is the systematic development of players. Not that it's bad, but that there often tend to be huge gaps that come back to haunt us. Just my opinion.

[That "like" ought to be qualified by the fact that I don't agree about Christmas. Otherwise, yeah.]

 

[Fireball Jr.]

$507,336- that's the NBA rookie minimum next year...not exactly working for peanuts

That's a lotta peanuts, salted and unsalted

 

[OttoMets]

$507,336- that's the NBA rookie minimum next year...not exactly working for peanuts

If he catches on. My understanding is that it's more likely that he doesn't, in which case he'll make less than half what I do, while living in Sioux Falls and traveling via inter-city bus with no college degree.

 

[Quazzum69]

He will never have the NBA skills of a SF or PF. He showed nothing other than the occasional spin-move or rebound-dunk. He was a good college player that got by with his athleticism and had some nice highlight reel dunks. It's the freaking NBA, everyone is athletic and can jump.

Another year at SU isn't going to transform his shot (horrible team shooting the past two years), make him a competent post scorer (do I even have to get into the big man coach stuff?), or make him able to withstand the abuse from NBA PFs.

Second-round draftees that end up turning into players typically have an obvious skill and have typically accomplished something.

Paul Millsap, Junior in NCAA: lead the NCAA in rebounding 3 consecutive years
Rashard Lewis, high school: 6-10 shooter, Mickey D
Stephen Jackson, high school - leading scorer in Mickey D game that included Kobe Bryant
Monta Ellis, high school: Parade Magazine high school player of the year
Marc Gasol, pro: ACB Most valuable player with FC Barcelona
Carlos Boozer, Junior in NCAA: 2-time Parade high school All-American, standout college player at Duke winning 2001 championship
Gilbert Arenas, Sophomore in NCAA: led Arizona to title game, 25th all-time scorer at Arizona (in just 2 years)
Manu Ginobli, pro: 2-time Italian-League MVP, Euroleague Finals MVP

I don't think Grant compares favorably to these 2nd-rounders...

 

[SUFan44]

He will never have the NBA skills of a SF or PF. He showed nothing other than the occasional spin-move or rebound-dunk. He was a good college player that got by with his athleticism and had some nice highlight reel dunks. It's the freaking NBA, everyone is athletic and can jump.

Another year at SU isn't going to transform his shot (horrible team shooting the past two years), make him a competent post scorer (do I even have to get into the big man coach stuff?), or make him able to withstand the abuse from NBA PFs.

Second-round draftees that end up turning into players typically have an obvious skill and have typically accomplished something.

Paul Millsap, Junior in NCAA: lead the NCAA in rebounding 3 consecutive years
Rashard Lewis, high school: 6-10 shooter, Mickey D
Stephen Jackson, high school - leading scorer in Mickey D game that included Kobe Bryant
Monta Ellis, high school: Parade Magazine high school player of the year
Marc Gasol, pro: ACB Most valuable player with FC Barcelona
Carlos Boozer, Junior in NCAA: 2-time Parade high school All-American, standout college player at Duke winning 2001 championship
Gilbert Arenas, Sophomore in NCAA: led Arizona to title game, 25th all-time scorer at Arizona (in just 2 years)
Manu Ginobli, pro: 2-time Italian-League MVP, Euroleague Finals MVP

I don't think Grant compares favorably to these 2nd-rounders...

His jump shot isn't as bad as you make it out to be, but I absolutely agree with your second round analysis. Which is why he needed to be a first round pick.