If Jerami Grant slips into the second round tonight...

[AZOrange]

I guess somebody hasn't heard about Harvey's alleged financial issues.

If 4 million is a lot of money how in the world does 23 mil not last forever...?

 

[AZOrange]

Yeah, but I didn't appreciate the different type of defense that he would face in the NBA - not a lot of 5'10" guys picking your pocket there.

FWIW, he played on one of the worst teams of all time.

Also...McW was physically ready. Grant and Ennis to a extent could have improved that at cuse.

 

[Francis03]

If 4 million is a lot of money how in the world does 23 mil not last forever...?

Antoine Walker is asking himself the same thing and he made even more than that.

 

[two3zone]

Antoine Walker is asking himself the same thing and he made even more than that.

AI is the worst, 200+ mil. I hear Tyson may have been worse but he still looks rich.

 

[Moontan]

AI is the worst, 200+ mil. I hear Tyson may have been worse but he still looks rich.

Must be the tattoo.

 

[MCC]

It works if you can get weird with Bayesian stuff, but really, nobody wants that.

Oh! Oh! You mean things like our predictions and past probabilities aren't the actual draft event, right? Can I post a ludicrous Grant draft selection equation worth of publication in Annals of Improbable Research (AIR)? Can I? Wait... you're saying nobody wants that? Um... OK.

(MCC retreats to his basement to work on his 1:15 scale model of Liopleurodon ferox...)

 

[MCC]

You're the Grant's bookeeper? It's safe to assume they have money, but it would have been safe to assume that AI, Antoine Walker, and Derrick Coleman are sitting on hundreds of millions.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

One of the things that annoys me most is when people believe that the end result is what determines if something was a good decision or not. You can only make the decision based on what you know at that time. When Jerami declared, he was a 1st round pick, with the possibility to be a late lottery pick if he proved scouts he could shoot in workouts. He reportedly sucked in workouts, and his stock fell, causing him to slip to the 2nd round. At the time when he made the decision, I highly doubt he and his family were expecting that he would suck in workouts.

And coming back does not guarantee he would go higher. I'm fairly certain Jerami would have been picked right around where he got picked, if not later, had he come back for a junior season. If he only showed modest improvements as a junior, his stock would have plummeted even more, and then he'd end up being like James McAdoo or CJ, and just go into a tailspin that you can't correct.

Both Grant and Ennis made the right choices for themselves. They both would have likely been 2nd round picks if they returned, and would have kicked themselves if they came back for another year just to be a 2nd round pick.

Or you can make your decision against what you are told at the time. He and his family only heard what they wanted to hear. Heck even we heard he wasn't ready. How did they and you miss that?

As for dropping due to staying, your logic escapes me. With another year in the weight room and being more of the focus in our offense, he was far more likely to improve his game and his draft status. Why on earth do you think he would digress? If he is that bad and would digress in college, then the same logic would suggest he will digress in the pros. Just doesn't make any sense for such a young player.

As certain as you are that he would stagnate, I am even more certain he would have raised his draft status. But I guess all players resist improvement as their careers go along. Is that your thinking? If so, they should all go pro after their freshman years. After all, they will all go downhill from there.

 

[djcon57]

With another year in the weight room and being more of the focus in our offense, he was far more likely to improve his game and his draft status.

Staying another year and being the focus of our offense did not help CJ Fair.

 

[djcon57]

If so, they should all go pro after their freshman years. After all, they will all go downhill from there.

If not that they all go "downhill", it's that the NBA's mindset right now is based in potential.

A guy who plays 3 mins a game in some Brazil league just got picked in the 1st round ahead of Shabazz Napier.

The longer they stay, the more they are picked apart.

 

[SUFan44]

Staying another year and being the focus of our offense did not help CJ Fair.

CJ Fair's percentages were worse and his game didn't improve. Had same deficincies as he did as a junior. And that's why our offense was so inconsistent.

 

[djcon57]

CJ Fair's percentages were worse and his game didn't improve. Had same deficincies as he did as a junior. And that's why our offense was so inconsistent.

Right...the same could occur to Grant. That was my point. To assume just because someone coming back = improved draft status isn't necessarily true.

 

[djcon57]

Yeah, but I didn't appreciate the different type of defense that he would face in the NBA - not a lot of 5'10" guys picking your pocket there.

FWIW, he played on one of the worst teams of all time.

Not record based..not even close. They weren't even the worst team this year.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Staying another year and being the focus of our offense did not help CJ Fair.

Right you are. Grant isn't CJFair though . CJ would have had to go to tryouts last year too and would have been in the same position after being evaluated. He already knew he had things to work on. He didn't achieve his goals. To think he would have been able to hide these weaknesses in workouts last year doesn't make sense.

Strength is something that can be worked on so Grant would have improved there at least. The rest would have been just hard work and more confidence in his shot.

Most players do progress, so play the odds. Jeremi's shot improved over last summer so it stands to reason he could have improved even more this summer.

 

[AZOrange]

Staying another year and being the focus of our offense did not help CJ Fair.

Can we all just agree that the upside in cj and grant are not the same?

 

[SarasotaPaul]

If not that they all go "downhill", it's that the NBA's mindset right now is based in potential.

A guy who plays 3 mins a game in some Brazil league just got picked in the 1st round ahead of Shabazz Napier.

The longer they stay, the more they are picked apart.

So then why did he fall down into the second round?

They get picked apart as soon as they try out. Last year, this year, next year. The NBA guys don't buy into the media hype, they evaluate for themselves. Then they go for potential. This potential thing is also more obvious in the fans and press's thoughts than in the NBA. Gives them/us something to talk about.

Even with potential, your stock goes up when you already have some of the strength and skills Then your ceiling (potential) goes even higher.

Hey I wish him all the luck in the world, but really thought he needed another year to maximize his first paycheck in the NBA. His workouts proved what many thought (especially those in the business) and that was, he wasn't ready. How does potential figure into that? There is much more potential when there are more things you need to improve on. So this potential thing is not the holy grail some think it is.

 

[Melancer46]

Or you can make your decision against what you are told at the time. He and his family only heard what they wanted to hear. Heck even we heard he wasn't ready. How did they and you miss that?

As for dropping due to staying, your logic escapes me. With another year in the weight room and being more of the focus in our offense, he was far more likely to improve his game and his draft status. Why on earth do you think he would digress? If he is that bad and would digress in college, then the same logic would suggest he will digress in the pros. Just doesn't make any sense for such a young player.

As certain as you are that he would stagnate, I am even more certain he would have raised his draft status. But I guess all players resist improvement as their careers go along. Is that your thinking? If so, they should all go pro after their freshman years. After all, they will all go downhill from there.

Dropping in the draft and regressing as a player are completely different things. I never said Grant would become a worse player by returning to school. If he didn't make huge improvements, he would likely drop because teams would start to view him as someone that's plateaued and can't really contribute instead of being a guy that can't contribute now but has a lot of room to grow.

 

[djcon57]

So then why did he fall down into the second round?

Not as good as he/they/we thought he was.. Maybe next year he doesn't get picked at all? Maybe he comes back and becomes a 1st round pick? I don't know...I just know it's not as obvious as some are acting like it is.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Not as good as he/they/we thought he was.. Maybe next year he doesn't get picked at all? Maybe he comes back and becomes a 1st round pick? I don't know...I just know it's not as obvious as some are acting like it is.

Agreed for the most part. Damn, takes the fun out of it.

 

[two3zone]

Can we all just agree that the upside in cj and grant are not the same?

You're right, 100% right and that's why Grant left. If he stays and doesn't move towards his upside then he's in the same spot CJ is in.

 

[tbonezone]

if you think that # 38 is your absolute draft ceiling then by all means jump. pretty high bar to limbo under.

 

[Briancuse]

if you think that # 38 is your absolute draft ceiling then by all means jump. pretty high bar to limbo under.

If you think 38 is the ceiling for where you are going to get drafted, then odds are good that you don't have the confidence or drive to be a great player.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The only scenario that really would make sense to me re: Grant is that he and his family didn't like how things were going at SU. Whether it was coaching, the structure of offense, or the prognosis of the offense this season.

Who was he and his camp listening to? Why wouldn't you come back, get stronger, and be probably the main guy the offense is built around? Something Boeheim I'm sure told him since he did mention something to that effect in a recent podcast regarding SU/NBA Draft with Axe. One would think Harvey/Horace would know he wasn't first round material based on his current skill set, no?

 

[tbonezone]

grant got all the minutes he wanted on the #1 ranked team in the country. grant got super coverage on ESPN.
he never was offensive option 1 simply becuz he was not our #1 offensive option. kid jumped early imo.

 

[Briancuse]

The only scenario that really would make sense to me re: Grant is that he and his family didn't like how things were going at SU. Whether it was coaching, the structure of offense, or the prognosis of the offense this season.

Who was he and his camp listening to? Why wouldn't you come back, get stronger, and be probably the main guy the offense is built around? Something Boeheim I'm sure told him since he did mention something to that effect in a recent podcast regarding SU/NBA Draft with Axe. One would think Harvey/Horace would know he wasn't first round material based on his current skill set, no?

Maybe he panicked when ennis declared, and was worried about a freshman pg coming in. Whatever the reason was, it wasn't a good decision.