If we don’t make the tournament next yr, is Red gone?

[Domedog84]

Red is a continuity hire. But the question around Red is will be be a continuation of JB’s last half dozen years, or will he get the program back to the level it was during JB’s prime years? He stated he wants to return the program back to its prior standards, so until he does that there will be fans that criticize him.

There will always be fans that criticize coaches and staffs no matter what. I am sure there are Duke fans upset that Scheyer has not got to final four with the talent he has.

I agree that the criticism of Red is about getting back to the standard of success that JB set for the program. I disagree that the criticism would be less with an outside hire. It is still the same standard of success that needs to be met and people will still be upset if it is not met.

I am not saying the criticism is wrong, necessarily, just that we need to be honest about and not say it is worse for Red because of continuity.

 

[Chip]

hurely wasn't a continuity hire.

I'm sure if we hired someone from the outside and he won 16 games this year, you'd be saying but we're building something!

The continuity hire won 2 more games (I removed Chaminade, I know it's offensive) and 1 more ACC game after losing a bidding war for our star center.

I'm willing to see how he can improve in year 2 and not bemoan every single departure in the free agency era. Puts me in the minority on this board.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

There will always be fans that criticize coaches and staffs no matter what. I am sure there are Duke fans upset that Scheyer has not got to final four with the talent he has.

I agree that the criticism of Red is about getting back to the standard of success that JB set for the program. I disagree that the criticism would be less with an outside hire. It is still the same standard of success that needs to be met and people will still be upset if it is not met.

I am not saying the criticism is wrong, necessarily, just that we need to be honest about and not say it is worse for Red because of continuity.

Red is at a bit of an inflection point very early in his head coaching tenure. Losing a key player like Maliq. Losing his top assistant. We have some positives (Freeman), but ultimately there are a lot of unknowns with the program right now. Until fans have a clear picture of the players and coach Red can land to offset the departures, fans will be raising questions.

 

[Domedog84]

Red is at a bit of an inflection point very early in his head coaching tenure. Losing a key player like Maliq. Losing his top assistant. We have some positives (Freeman), but ultimately there are a lot of unknowns with the program right now. Until fans have a clear picture of the players and coach Red can land to offset the departures, fans will be raising questions.

I do not really disagree with anything you say there. Again, my beef is not with fans having questions about Red. Even his biggest supporters would admit there are certainly questions and that the next year or 2 will answer many of those questions depending on how things go.

My issue is people saying they would be more patient with an outside hire. I just simply do not believe that.

 

[djcon57]

It's good to see once again everything the know it alls keep touting and pushing for is hurting the game of basketball especially for college and hurting our own Men's Orange team. Change isn't always what's needed in everything.

You realize the current climate was due to a decision by the Supreme Court, right?

 

[MSOrange]

You realize the current climate was due to a decision by the Supreme Court, right?

 

[GHLF]

Losing Maliq is a huge blow. If we lose Judah, there isn’t much left. It’s not like we have our pickings of the top transfers. I realize with NIL, it’s not easy for coaches, but you have to retain key pieces. I would say he should go if another year of no tourney. And this time, a national search would have to take place.

I think this is utter nonsense, I however realize in an age where nonsense and greed seem to be increasing. He is the guy, I would not change a thing. Malik will play the 4 somewhere else, however in my opinion he would not develop the 3/4 skills he will need to succeed long term elsewhere. He actually could have done that here. Fools gold, maybe I am wrong. Quadir/Benny same sit IMO, still tragic, Malik completely different situation, he was just going to have to compete. I applaud Red for his honesty. I unfortunately think a purge was needed whether player election or coach/University decision. I do not believe NIL will be an issue.

 

[tbonezone]

In theory, if an NIL deal was between a local business and a player, they could structure a deal to pay out incrementally over a period of time

could you put in a clause saying they had to appear in X many games ? could you put in a penalty if they opted to sit out post season ? could you structure in a "morality clause " to avoid payment for unsavory behavior ?
i mean no business would want to be tagged to player dismissed midseason for some nefarious conduct.
maybe a couple hundred grand pay day on the line would get these kids out of the bars and into class.

 

[pokercuse08]

could you put in a clause saying they had to appear in X many games ? could you put in a penalty if they opted to sit out post season ? could you structure in a "morality clause " to avoid payment for unsavory behavior ?
i mean no business would want to be tagged to player dismissed midseason for some nefarious conduct.
maybe a couple hundred grand pay day on the line would get these kids out of the bars and into class.

To be clear, I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume you cannot say they have to appear in X number of games because that's compensating them based on their athletic performance not their name/image/likeness. But you could probably put in some kind of bonus for appearing at something in March, and figure out a way to connect it to a game that at least got you into a gray area. For example, maybe you'd pay them to show up at a weekly radio show at your restaurant/bar that was held to recap the games since the last show, and you'd pay a certain amount per appearance, with the amount higher in March - and they'd be ineligible for the appearance fee if they had opted out of games or been dismissed from the team.

I'm sure you could put a morality clause in as well, but I doubt you could prohibit an upperclassman from being in a bar or mandate that they go to class, and I don't think you should want to structure these deals to prohibit all drinking. But I'm sure you could put in a clause that allowed the business to cancel the deal if the player was charged with a crime or something like that, and that could include public intoxication. Go have a few drinks? Sure, no problem. Do something stupid that gets you arrested? Now perhaps we have an issue.

Perhaps one way around the X number of games thing is to offer a deal to every player on the team that all the starters from that week will be invited to a weekly promotional appearance for a set fee, and the fee goes up in March. Probably a gray area, but there's a better case to be made IMO that a business should want to invite the starters for a promotional appearance than there is that it makes a difference to a business if a kid plays in 25 games or 30 games.

 

[ssbriefcase]

FFS some of our fanbase is bananas. We got posts on how this season is a bust for Red before it ends, and we won 20 games, which we haven't done in years. All the while with apparently an Animal House atmosphere behind the curtain. Of course we get a post about, is Red done after year 2.

With this climate of players getting up and leaving when they feel like, and having to get into a bidding war with replacements every season. Yeah let's fire a guy if he can't get it right in his 2nd season.

I need some whiskey

 

[tbonezone]

To be clear, I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume you cannot say they have to appear in X number of games because that's compensating them based on their athletic performance not their name/image/likeness. But you could probably put in some kind of bonus for appearing at something in March, and figure out a way to connect it to a game that at least got you into a gray area. For example, maybe you'd pay them to show up at a weekly radio show at your restaurant/bar that was held to recap the games since the last show, and you'd pay a certain amount per appearance, with the amount higher in March - and they'd be ineligible for the appearance fee if they had opted out of games or been dismissed from the team.

I'm sure you could put a morality clause in as well, but I doubt you could prohibit an upperclassman from being in a bar or mandate that they go to class, and I don't think you should want to structure these deals to prohibit all drinking. But I'm sure you could put in a clause that allowed the business to cancel the deal if the player was charged with a crime or something like that, and that could include public intoxication. Go have a few drinks? Sure, no problem. Do something stupid that gets you arrested? Now perhaps we have an issue.

Perhaps one way around the X number of games thing is to offer a deal to every player on the team that all the starters from that week will be invited to a weekly promotional appearance for a set fee, and the fee goes up in March. Probably a gray area, but there's a better case to be made IMO that a business should want to invite the starters for a promotional appearance than there is that it makes a difference to a business if a kid plays in 25 games or 30 games.

nice. i get you're not a lawyer but i appreciate you thinking this deal thru. my easy breakdown. carrot meet stick.

note the avatar.

 

[tbonezone]

FFS some of our fanbase is bananas. We got posts on how this season is a bust for Red before it ends, and we won 20 games, which we haven't done in years. All the while with apparently an Animal House atmosphere behind the curtain. Of course we get a post about, is Red done after year 2.

With this climate of players getting up and leaving when they feel like, and having to get into a bidding war with replacements every season. Yeah let's fire a guy if he can't get it right in his 2nd season.

I need some whiskey

if as a coach you think that just becuz most of your starting production does not want to return to campus and play for you that warrants some kind of free pass ? nope . you got a problem. and you get 1 summer to figure it out . cuz it's gonna be the exact same tango next march. only worse if we achieve less. red best work his magic and get a competitive tourney team on the court next season or i got no issues with the boot. just business.

 

[ssbriefcase]

if as a coach you think that just becuz most of your starting production does not want to return to campus and play for you that warrants some kind of free pass ? nope . you got a problem. and you get 1 summer to figure it out . cuz it's gonna be the exact same tango next march. only worse if we achieve less. red best work his magic and get a competitive tourney team on the court next season or i got no issues with the boot. just business.

Nobody said anything about a free pass. Good talk

 

[Cuse181]

The same posters saying that they don’t cut Red slack because he is a continuity would not be cutting a new coach slack either and it is very disingenuous for them to say that. Imagine if we had gone with a new hire and he finished with a losing season. This place would be on fire. Some people just need a place to vent and that is certainly what this message board is for, but let’s at least be honest with ourselves. We wish we made the tournament and we are mad we didn’t, I don’t see the tenor changing with most posters expressing that opinion no matter who the coach is.

So very false, but whatever floats your boat. If an outside guy came in, turned over the roster completely Showed consistent fight throughout the year but were just missing a piece that could not get (not CHOSE not to get) then I would've been disappointed but hopeful with even a 15 win season. Instead I saw a team horribly underprepared multiple times this year without any semblance of an offensive vision and a defense that actively got WORSE as the year went on. In 30 years of watching Syracuse i have never seen a team quit more than this last team did. I am happy he is getting rid of the dead weight, had he done it last year this team mightve been able to sneak into the tournament.

 

[tombacuse]

Red did a very nice job with that group last year, especially as it was his first year as HC. No way in year 2 do we fire an alum hire, unless...the wheels come off completely. The tourney has to become our expectation again or we face the possibility of becoming a Wake/Miami or FSU type program.

 

[elimunelson]

Red did a very nice job with that group last year, especially as it was his first year as HC. No way in year 2 do we fire an alum hire, unless...the wheels come off completely. The tourney has to become our expectation again or we face the possibility of becoming a Wake/Miami or FSU type program.

very nice job. I was impressed with Red.

having said that, the clock is ticking loudly with the advent of professional college hoops now. He will be given 3 full years to make this happen. In spring of 2026 we are 0-3 in NCAA he will be fired. Not sure why that would be considered a hot take. The university can't let this linger. I think he'll get us there next year and it'll be moot

 

[GHLF]

So very false, but whatever floats your boat. If an outside guy came in, turned over the roster completely Showed consistent fight throughout the year but were just missing a piece that could not get (not CHOSE not to get) then I would've been disappointed but hopeful with even a 15 win season. Instead I saw a team horribly underprepared multiple times this year without any semblance of an offensive vision and a defense that actively got WORSE as the year went on. In 30 years of watching Syracuse i have never seen a team quit more than this last team did. I am happy he is getting rid of the dead weight, had he done it last year this team mightve been able to sneak into the tournament.

Totally disagree, despite all that happened we still won the second most games in conference in our entire ACC hx. You vent, I vent. You just do not like the coach. I could say much more concerning your knowledge level, unnecessary. He stayed true, we actually improved defensively despite severe limitations. Going to miss CQ, MB, a shame.

 

[GHLF]

FFS some of our fanbase is bananas. We got posts on how this season is a bust for Red before it ends, and we won 20 games, which we haven't done in years. All the while with apparently an Animal House atmosphere behind the curtain. Of course we get a post about, is Red done after year 2.

With this climate of players getting up and leaving when they feel like, and having to get into a bidding war with replacements every season. Yeah let's fire a guy if he can't get it right in his 2nd season.

I need some whiskey

I agree, off the wall, borderline delusional. I was once again shocked he did this well. Create the culture, compete in NIL, continue to care about your players with natural X/O progression as a coach we will become a destination. Culture/support/fan base/history/great coaches with vision (MM def/NE recruiting base

 

[Domedog84]

So very false, but whatever floats your boat. If an outside guy came in, turned over the roster completely Showed consistent fight throughout the year but were just missing a piece that could not get (not CHOSE not to get) then I would've been disappointed but hopeful with even a 15 win season. Instead I saw a team horribly underprepared multiple times this year without any semblance of an offensive vision and a defense that actively got WORSE as the year went on. In 30 years of watching Syracuse i have never seen a team quit more than this last team did. I am happy he is getting rid of the dead weight, had he done it last year this team mightve been able to sneak into the tournament.

All I want is you to explain to me what you mean by turned the roster over completely. Red made moves. We may not all love those moves now in hindsight, but lay out who you wanted gone and retained that would have met that standard that would lead you to see progress.

Of course now at the end of the season it’s easy to nitpick his moves (and some don’t look great) but you need to explain to me what the “chose not to get” piece means. Maybe I am dense but I do not understand what you mean by that.

 

[ar inj]

All I want is you to explain to me what you mean by turned the roster over completely. Red made moves. We may not all love those moves now in hindsight, but lay out who you wanted gone and retained that would have met that standard that would lead you to see progress.

Of course now at the end of the season it’s easy to nitpick his moves (and some don’t look great) but you need to explain to me what the “chose not to get” piece means. Maybe I am dense but I do not understand what you mean by that.

You will be happier if you put Cuse I81 on ignore. I know I am.

 

[im4cuse]

You will be happier if you put Cuse I81 on ignore. I know I am.

very nice job. I was impressed with Red.

having said that, the clock is ticking loudly with the advent of professional college hoops now. He will be given 3 full years to make this happen. In spring of 2026 we are 0-3 in NCAA he will be fired. Not sure why that would be considered a hot take. The university can't let this linger. I think he'll get us there next year and it'll be moot

Given we might have 5 or 6 new players seems like a preseason trip is a must. Don’t think Red can afford a bad start. Canada would be good in my opinion. Remember when Ennis opened up our eyes to what was to come?

 

[rocklloyd]

It seems like college basketball is turning into a collection of 1 yr performances. I don’t know what waiting until yr3 does since It’s likely the teams change from year to year. He’s gotta get in next year.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Losing Maliq is a huge blow. If we lose Judah, there isn’t much left. It’s not like we have our pickings of the top transfers. I realize with NIL, it’s not easy for coaches, but you have to retain key pieces. I would say he should go if another year of no tourney. And this time, a national search would have to take place.

Stop with the agenda.
Did you call for Jim to be fired when he missed the NCAA two years in a row?
In my mind, Red gets 3 years just to dig out of the mess that Jim left him.
Then he gets 3 years to do it with his guys. He proved he can coach and manage a bad roster. The 3 guys he has coming in next year are better than Jim’s last 2 or 3 classes, combined.

It almost looks like when Jim learned that Red would get the job, not GMac, so he sabotaged Red with his recruiting, or lack of it.

 

[rocklloyd]

Stop with the agenda.
Did you call for Jim to be fired when he missed the NCAA two years in a row?
In my mind, Red gets 3 years just to dig out of the mess that Jim left him.
Then he gets 3 years to do it with his guys. He proved he can coach and manage a bad roster. The 3 guys he has coming in next year are better than Jim’s last 2 or 3 classes, combined.

It almost looks like when Jim learned that Red would get the job, not GMac, so he sabotaged Red with his recruiting, or lack of it.

I think red will be judged on the compositions of his teams year to year and whether he wins. He needs to adapt. Gone are the days of freshman turning into sophomores and so in.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Fine with McLeod as the backup center. I don’t understand why people are fine with Cuffe. He isn’t a power 5 role guy. I mean I’ll give Red a shot, but this Maliq departure leaves me pessimistic…

Cuffe was a Top 50 HS recruit who went to Kansas. Injuries derailed his career so far, but to say he's not a P5 talent is nonsense.