If you could choose, would you prefer 30 wins and sweet 16 or 14 losses + Final 4?

[CaptainJ]

Final four as the ceiling. Would you take last year over Onuaku's senior year?I think everyone would take championship over 30 wins

Ok, in that case I am sticking with my original answer of the Final Four over The Passion Of The Onuaku(although Gillon is proclaiming he's The Christ this season, so I suppose he will be the one getting The Passion(tm) instead of a center like Onuaku/Fab this time). As I mentioned earlier(as did others), as Final Four is a lesser title...like when Macho Man Randy Savage was the WWF Intercontinental Champion.

As for a title, i didn't mean it as a guarantee, of course. I just saw at least one answer that seemed to think the Final Four included a shot at the title. Not sure it's safe to assume it was the only one.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Even with the loss to Bama 2004 team did really well IMO.
They got to the 2nd weekend and they weren't beating UConn even though Forth dominated them on McNeil's Senior Day on CBS. I remember Forth dunking on an injured Okafor.

I want Final Fours but I think we need dominate regular seasons mixed in. We can't have first or second round flameouts. However sweet 16 games and beyond are coin flips.

I was just trying to make the point that we went 27-7 in 04-05(my sophomore year), but I don't remember anything really noteworthy about that season except being at the UVM debacle. I kind of view 04-05, like many of my older contemporaries remember 90-91. A team that greatly underachieved relative to expectations. I think fans are satisfied not my wins and losses, but by how teams finished relative to expectations.

 

[Alsacs]

I was just trying to make the point that we went 27-7 in 04-05(my sophomore year), but I don't remember anything really noteworthy about that season except being at the UVM debacle. I kind of view 04-05, like many of my older contemporaries remember 90-91. A team that greatly underachieved relative to expectations. I think fans are satisfied not my wins and losses, but by how teams finished relative to expectations.

It was mediocre season.
We beat Mississippi State in MSG, lost to Oklahoma State in Jimmy V, beat Georgetown in OT, beat Nova in Philly, Beat ND in college game day where the hosts were a mile away, and then won the BET.
Rutgers/UConn/WVU it was a mediocre team.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

A 14 loss team that wins the tournament will not be considered a "legitimate" national champion. So what's the point? (obviously just going to a Final 4 is even less meaningful then)

I want the team/program to be good. Being crap all year and having a good 4-5 game stretch in March and having a good record all season then flaming out in the first two rounds of the tourney mean about the same, at least if this pattern is routine.

I am willing to tolerate a good March/April with terrible build up more than others, simply because of the integration of so many new players.

 

[CuseAJM]

Boeheim is obviously saying these things because he knows it isn't possible for this team to have a great record.
At the beginning of the year, he definitely believed this was a 26-30 win team. He now needs to pivot away from that and motivate this team to make the tourney for a run.

 

[007]

Personal opinions aside, is there really a question about what matters most in terms of value added, exposure, and national perception?

 

[Cusefan0307]

It was mediocre season.
We beat Mississippi State in MSG, lost to Oklahoma State in Jimmy V, beat Georgetown in OT, beat Nova in Philly, Beat ND in college game day where the hosts were a mile away, and then won the BET.
Rutgers/UConn/WVU it was a mediocre team.

You think a 2nd place finish with a BET title is mediocre? I think that team should've at least made the Sweet 16. Anyway pulling hairs here.

This is a great study for a UConn fan. Ask them if they enjoyed that dominant team that was upset by Larranaga and George Mason or one of their 2 title teams that had about 25 losses combined.

 

[Alsacs]

You think a 2nd place finish with a BET title is mediocre? I think that team should've at least made the Sweet 16. Anyway pulling hairs here.

This is a great study for a UConn fan. Ask them if they enjoyed that dominant team that was upset by Larranaga and George Mason or one of their 2 title teams that had about 25 losses combined.

We had a Final Four team in 2005 they just didn't play well for some reason.
What hurt that team was the 2 guard position. Nicholas didn't step up and McCrosky/Wright/Edelin all sucked or had off the court problems.
GMac/Pace/Warrick/Forth great foundation.
We were one player short. I don't know if that team beats Michigan State 2nd round. They went on to win the regional beating Duke/Kentucky.
That was a good team on paper but didn't have "it".

 

[Alsacs]

You think a 2nd place finish with a BET title is mediocre? I think that team should've at least made the Sweet 16. Anyway pulling hairs here.

This is a great study for a UConn fan. Ask them if they enjoyed that dominant team that was upset by Larranaga and George Mason or one of their 2 title teams that had about 25 losses combined.

Any NC season over any non NC season obviously.
UConn is lucky they max out when they go far.

 

[SBU72]

While I here this choice from JB, I think it is some what taken out of context. I presented the argument that a lot of is career is considered "luck" and his statement is that luck had nothing (or almost nothing) to do with making the FF. SU beat good, legitimate teams to get there and to consider the season a failure is wrong. Like he said, would Virginia and Mich. St have taken a few more loses to get where SU was? I think so.

 

[longislandcuse]

Nobody outside us and some other hardcore fan bases knows we sucked last year until the tournament.

When clients come into my office and see my Cuse panorama, they don't say "man y'all were lucky to make the tournament last year".

They say "y'all had a great year last year!"

Even further.. they say "how are you guys going to do this year?"

Do you know why they say that?...because they don't know our record sucks right now. They just assume we'll make the tournament aka the real season.

 

[orangenirvana]

14 losses and Final Four - and it's not even close.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We had a Final Four team in 2005 they just didn't play well for some reason.
What hurt that team was the 2 guard position. Nicholas didn't step up and McCrosky/Wright/Edelin all sucked or had off the court problems.
GMac/Pace/Warrick/Forth great foundation.
We were one player short. I don't know if that team beats Michigan State 2nd round. They went on to win the regional beating Duke/Kentucky.
That was a good team on paper but didn't have "it".

03-04 and 04-05 struggled to maximize their potential because of Edelins issues. He was supposed to be Gerry's backcourt partner.

 

[SBU72]

A. Because A means its more likely that you'll go to the Final Four in subsequent years due to the true strength of your program as opposed to just being a flash in the pan.

Kansas seems like a program that wins 30+ games every year, but has a bad habit of getting bounced early in the tourney recently. But I would still gladly want to be them.

I'm sure somebody, somewhere has the stats on how many 30 win teams actually make the FF. Of course it was not that long ago that 30 wins MEANT at least a FF if not a NC.

 

[Eric15]

When clients come into my office and see my Cuse panorama, they don't say "man y'all were lucky to make the tournament last year".

They say "y'all had a great year last year!"

Wait, are you sure you live on Long Island?

 

[CaptainJ]

I'm sure somebody, somewhere has the stats on how many 30 win teams actually make the FF. Of course it was not that long ago that 30 wins MEANT at least a FF if not a NC.

Great call, that slipped by me.

 

[longislandcuse]

Wait, are you sure you live on Long Island?

Lived. Now Greenville, SC so when people come into my office, it's y'all all day, every day.

I'm basically a mess in terms of my accent - Walking around South Carolina like "y'all want to get some cawfee?"

 

[realorange]

I would be willing to bet that if you could poll players on every team they would almost unanimously vote for Final Four.
I think JB saying that last years team was one of his top 5 was because of the way they pulled together in The Tournament to do what they did. I doubt many of us would have said they was even possible in January of that year.

 

[721Comstock]

That 2005 team was so frustrating...Then the tease with the BEST title...Followed by a swift kick to the d$+k.

GMAC was a cripple for the next game, that's why we lost.
We never, ever shoulda even been there, much less seeded that high.

Every team except one loses their last game of the year.
Not every team goes on a run for the ages right before that.
Enjoy the latter, forget about the former.

 

[pfister1]

I have a feeling that JB is also simply using this argument as an opportunity to spar with Bud. I'm not sure he 100% believes what he is arguing.

At different points in his career he's been branded an underachiever because we've had a great regular season, but fallen woefully short of expectations in the post season. The logical extension of that argument is that the regular season doesn't really matter, its only the post season.

Last season we had pretty much the opposite result. A pretty mediocre regular season followed by a great run in the NCAAT. Pretty much what people had previously seemed to be saying mattered when we had fallen short in the past. However, despite the result it still isn't sufficient, people argue the team got lucky and the program is in decline.

My guess is that if you asked JB he would say that the post season result is very important in evaluating the ultimate success of any particular season, but he wouldn't want last season to be the model we shoot for every year. He wants to win too badly to endure 14 losses every season. Now if we had added wins against UNC and Nova, maybe he would take that (endure 13 losses, but win the NC) every year.

 

[Eric15]

Every team except one loses their last game of the year.

NIT champion, CBI champion, every team who didn't qualify for the postseason but won their last regular season game, teams on probation...

(sorry for being that guy)

 

[721Comstock]

NIT champion, CBI champion, every team who didn't qualify for the postseason but won their last regular season game, teams on probation...

(sorry for being that guy)

It's the internet - somebody had to do it.

 

[AZOrange]

Final four, no doubt

 

[Louie and Bouie]

FF without question. It's the Super Bowl weekend of college basketball and the measuring stick of success of college programs.

On another note, there are very few road trips I'd dump 2-3k on with a few days notice but Cuse in the FF is on the top of the list. Strong suggestion, if you haven't gone then make the promise to yourself next time they get there you'll go no matter the multiple reasons you can't. It's a decision you won't regret.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A. Because A means its more likely that you'll go to the Final Four in subsequent years due to the true strength of your program as opposed to just being a flash in the pan.

Kansas seems like a program that wins 30+ games every year, but has a bad habit of getting bounced early in the tourney recently. But I would still gladly want to be them.

Have you ever thought that a good part of Kansas regular season success is in part to playing in a weaker league compared to us. I mean they have been to one more final four than us since 2000. Maybe they don't lose as many regular season games, but maybe the Big 12 just isn't that good.