I'm not sure why people are afraid of rebuilding

[OttoinGrotto]

Let me start by saying that I like Shafer and want this to work. That said, I think he's made some bad decisions, and I'm concerned that on offense the band Shafer brought together has a pretty low ceiling. The injuries haven't helped this season, but they can't excuse everything (PUNTERS GOTTA PUNT). Shafer likely has another year to right the ship, and I'd like to see that happen.

I'm not sure why people are so afraid of rebuilding though. If you think our problem is talent, I'm not sure we've seen enough from this staff to suggest that they're going to get us significantly better talent, or coach up in a really meaningful way the talent we have. In fact, we're at a big risk of losing the guy that gives us our best chance to improve the talent in McDonald. If talent is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better attracting and developing talent with a different staff, especially with the IPF on the way.

If the talent is there but it's the coaching that is lacking, should we be so concerned about losing coaches that struggle so much to scheme better performance from their team? In fairness to the defense, which I feel was shaky last season, we can rely on our defense this season to be solid against any opponent that isn't Top 10. On the other hand, the offense is a complete mess, and our special teams fail to provide good field position for both the offense and defense. If coaching is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better with a different staff, depending on the experience they bring to the table.

If you think the problem is conditional, ie our program is not attractive enough to attract a good coach, our program is unwilling to pay for a competent staff, we have a schedule that's too difficult, that we have a geographical disadvantage that's too difficult to overcome, or that the program can't afford another prolonged rebuilding period, the only answer to any of these problems is to come up with an innovative solution and exploit some type of inefficiency other like football programs haven't figured out. If that's what we're left with, I'm not so sure we've seen a whole lot of innovation out of this staff. In fact, I worry that they mistake getting cutesy with creativity, and outsmart themselves more often than not. If a lack of innovative solutions is our problem, I think it's fair to ask if a new staff might provide some fresh ideas.

In short, this season is a bust. The best course of action is to keep recruiting, get the returning players going strong in S&C, hope the staff has learned some lessons taking their lumps this season, and look for reasons for optimism next season. I expect that we'll know pretty early in the 2015 season if things are going in the right direction or if they're not. I'll be looking to see if we're making the smartest decisions whenever we have choices, regardless of any other circumstances. If we do, in my eyes it's not too late for this staff to be successful. If we don't, we're rebuilding anyway, so we might as well rebuild with people that can bring something different to the table.

College sports isn't like professional sports - there's no free agency (well, kinda) or lottery you look to when you need to improve. You get better through some combination of resources, smarts, and taking advantage of what you have that others don't, whatever that might be. It's on the coaches to provide the latter two on that list. If this staff can't, we can find one that can. They are out there. They would like to be here, they would take our money, and they would try different things to see if they work.

 

[TheCusian]

Let me start by saying that I like Shafer and want this to work. That said, I think he's made some bad decisions, and I'm concerned that on offense the band Shafer brought together has a pretty low ceiling. The injuries haven't helped this season, but they can't excuse everything (PUNTERS GOTTA PUNT). Shafer likely has another year to right the ship, and I'd like to see that happen. I'm not sure why people are so afraid of rebuilding though. If you think our problem is talent, I'm not sure we've seen enough from this staff to suggest that they're going to get us significantly better talent, or coach up in a really meaningful way the talent we have. In fact, we're at a big risk of losing the guy that gives us our best chance to improve the talent in McDonald. If talent is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better attracting and developing talent with a different staff, especially with the IPF on the way. If the talent is there but it's the coaching that is lacking, should we be so concerned about losing coaches that struggle so much to scheme better performance from their team? In fairness to the defense, which I feel was shaky last season, we can rely on our defense this season to be solid against any opponent that isn't Top 10. On the other hand, the offense is a complete mess, and our special teams fail to provide good field position for both the offense and defense. If coaching is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better with a different staff, depending on the experience they bring to the table. If you think the problem is conditional, ie our program is not attractive enough to attract a good coach, our program is unwilling to pay for a competent staff, we have a schedule that's too difficult, that we have a geographical disadvantage that's too difficult to overcome, or that the program can't afford another prolonged rebuilding period, the only answer to any of these problems is to come up with an innovative solution and exploit some type of inefficiency other like football programs haven't figured out. If that's what we're left with, I'm not so sure we've seen a whole lot of innovation out of this staff. In fact, I worry that they mistake getting cutesy with creativity, and outsmart themselves more often than not. If a lack of innovative solutions is our problem, I think it's fair to ask if a new staff might provide some fresh ideas. In short, this season is a bust. The best course of action is to keep recruiting, get the returning players going strong in S&C, hope the staff has learned some lessons taking their lumps this season, and look for reasons for optimism next season. I expect that we'll know pretty early in the 2015 season if things are going in the right direction or if they're not. I'll be looking to see if we're making the smartest decisions whenever we have choices, regardless of any other circumstances. If we do, in my eyes it's not too late for this staff to be successful. If we don't, we're rebuilding anyway, so we might as well rebuild with people that can bring something different to the table. College sports isn't like professional sports - there's no free agency (well, kinda) or lottery you look to when you need to improve. You get better through some combination of resources, smarts, and taking advantage of what you have that others don't, whatever that might be. It's on the coaches to provide the latter two on that list. If this staff can't, we can find one that can. They are out there. They would like to be here, they would take our money, and they would try different things to see if they work.

Good post. I'm not sure they can hack it, but I like the talent we've seen from our freshman. Could it be the talent is on its way and injuries masked any good coaching?

That's why I'm advocating one more season to show improvement. Not just record, but visible improvement in coaching and our young players.

But damn. We need a QB. <hops over to recruiting side>

 

[Orangetradition44]

Who's afraid? I think people are just tired. Worst case... 1 more year with Shafer, then start all over again with another unknown commodity. It's been a decade and a half since we've been relevant. Only thing I'm afraid if is we won't be good again in my lifetime.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

SU is death to QBs just like Minnesota Timberwolves were/are death to SU basketball players who are good enough to get drafted high.

Last year, we had Drew Allen, who was a highly recruited, Prepstar All-American QB out of San Antonio, TX ranked 38th best QB in the nation when he committed to Oklahoma. He sat behind Sam Bradford and Landry before transfering to SU. He looked like a very bad high school QB on the field for SU. Couldn't complete a pass, took way too long to get rid of the ball, bad decisions, bad arm.
Hunt, AJ Long, Kimble, Wilson -- it doesn't matter who has taken the field at QB this year. The majority were 3 star QB recruits, which means they were scouted and thought to have the skills to contribute on the college level. They all look like very bad high school level QBs that should have come nowhere near sniffing a D1 offer. How can they all suck so bad? Bad coaching? Bad Playcalling? Lack of preparation? I don't know but we better figure out what it is or we'll suck forever.

 

[Entropic]

SU is death to QBs just like Minnesota Timberwolves were/are death to SU basketball players who are good enough to get drafted high.

Last year, we had Drew Allen, who was a highly recruited, Prepstar All-American QB out of San Antonio, TX ranked 38th best QB in the nation when he committed to Oklahoma. He sat behind Sam Bradford and Landry before transfering to SU. He looked like a very bad high school QB on the field for SU. Couldn't complete a pass, took way too long to get rid of the ball, bad decisions, bad arm.
Hunt, AJ Long, Kimble, Wilson -- it doesn't matter who has taken the field at QB this year. The majority were 3 star QB recruits, which means they were scouted and thought to have the skills to contribute on the college level. They all look like very bad high school level QBs that should have come nowhere near sniffing a D1 offer. How can they all suck so bad? Bad coaching? Bad Playcalling? Lack of preparation? I don't know but we better figure out what it is or we'll suck forever.

I have been wondering the same thing for a while. You can flip some random game with two non P5 schools and you will see QBs with good arms throwing accurately to WRs who catch the majority of the balls. What gives?

 

[Stern]

Nobody is afraid. Just nobody has faith with this guy leading a rebuilding process.

Plus next year you have 4 losses you can pencil in right now. Meaning he has to win 6 of 8 games to go to a bowl. Not gonna happen. When the bar is set at just 6 wins and you can't come close to meeting that level of expectation....that's bad! Real bad!

Scott Must Go!

 

[Crusty]

Let me start by saying that I like Shafer and want this to work. That said, I think he's made some bad decisions, and I'm concerned that on offense the band Shafer brought together has a pretty low ceiling. The injuries haven't helped this season, but they can't excuse everything (PUNTERS GOTTA PUNT). Shafer likely has another year to right the ship, and I'd like to see that happen.

I'm not sure why people are so afraid of rebuilding though. If you think our problem is talent, I'm not sure we've seen enough from this staff to suggest that they're going to get us significantly better talent, or coach up in a really meaningful way the talent we have. In fact, we're at a big risk of losing the guy that gives us our best chance to improve the talent in McDonald. If talent is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better attracting and developing talent with a different staff, especially with the IPF on the way.

If the talent is there but it's the coaching that is lacking, should we be so concerned about losing coaches that struggle so much to scheme better performance from their team? In fairness to the defense, which I feel was shaky last season, we can rely on our defense this season to be solid against any opponent that isn't Top 10. On the other hand, the offense is a complete mess, and our special teams fail to provide good field position for both the offense and defense. If coaching is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better with a different staff, depending on the experience they bring to the table.

If you think the problem is conditional, ie our program is not attractive enough to attract a good coach, our program is unwilling to pay for a competent staff, we have a schedule that's too difficult, that we have a geographical disadvantage that's too difficult to overcome, or that the program can't afford another prolonged rebuilding period, the only answer to any of these problems is to come up with an innovative solution and exploit some type of inefficiency other like football programs haven't figured out. If that's what we're left with, I'm not so sure we've seen a whole lot of innovation out of this staff. In fact, I worry that they mistake getting cutesy with creativity, and outsmart themselves more often than not. If a lack of innovative solutions is our problem, I think it's fair to ask if a new staff might provide some fresh ideas.

In short, this season is a bust. The best course of action is to keep recruiting, get the returning players going strong in S&C, hope the staff has learned some lessons taking their lumps this season, and look for reasons for optimism next season. I expect that we'll know pretty early in the 2015 season if things are going in the right direction or if they're not. I'll be looking to see if we're making the smartest decisions whenever we have choices, regardless of any other circumstances. If we do, in my eyes it's not too late for this staff to be successful. If we don't, we're rebuilding anyway, so we might as well rebuild with people that can bring something different to the table.

College sports isn't like professional sports - there's no free agency (well, kinda) or lottery you look to when you need to improve. You get better through some combination of resources, smarts, and taking advantage of what you have that others don't, whatever that might be. It's on the coaches to provide the latter two on that list. If this staff can't, we can find one that can. They are out there. They would like to be here, they would take our money, and they would try different things to see if they work.

For me, the deal is simple. Look at the backgrounds of the defensive staff and look at the backgrounds of the offensive staff and you have your answer.

Bullough - was a 2nd team All-American at Michigan State and set the single season tackles record there. Drafted by the Eagles and played 2 seasons at LB for the Dolphins. Was position coach for defensive line, defensive backs, linebackers, special teams and was a DC for 2 years at UCLA. Extensive coaching experience at virtually every spot on the defensive side of the ball.

McDonald - was an excellent receiver at Illinois. Coached WR's exclusively except for two years as OC at WMU where Bill Cubit called the plays.

Lester - was a terrific college QB at WMU. His OC coaching experience however has been limited to Division II (St Joseph's College and Elmhurst Division III.

At this level a program simply cannot afford OJT. The jump in competition is measured on a Richter Scale - it is not just one linear bump. Just like the game has to slow down for players when they make a jump from HS to college and then from college ot the NFL, the same thing happens for coaches.

I believe we can see it in both seasons. Bullough had a couple of real disasters last year, but as players learned his system we got better and better. That didn't really happen on the offensive side of the ball, In the last 7 games of last year we scored only 107 points - only 15 points per game. This year our last 7 games we have scored 97 - 13.7 points per game.

All things considered, it is hard not to conclude that we are way out of our depth on offensive coaching ability. Shafer seemed to recognize that when he demoted McDonald, but anointing Lester seems to be a repeat of the same mistake. I am afraid that it is going to cost Shafer his job next year.

 

[TheCusian]

For me, the deal is simple. Look at the backgrounds of the defensive staff and look at the backgrounds of the offensive staff and you have your answer. Bullough - was a 2nd team All-American at Michigan State and set the single season tackles record there. Drafted by the Eagles and played 2 seasons at LB for the Dolphins. Was position coach for defensive line, defensive backs, linebackers, special teams and was a DC for 2 years at UCLA. Extensive coaching experience at virtually every spot on the defensive side of the ball. McDonald - was an excellent receiver at Illinois. Coached WR's exclusively except for two years as OC at WMU where Bill Cubit called the plays. Lester - was a terrific college QB at WMU. His OC coaching experience however has been limited to Division II (St Joseph's College and Elmhurst Division III. At this level a program simply cannot afford OJT. The jump in competition is measured on a Richter Scale - it is not just one linear bump. Just like the game has to slow down for players when they make a jump from HS to college and then from college ot the NFL, the same thing happens for coaches. I believe we can see it in both seasons. Bullough had a couple of real disasters last year, but as players learned his system we got better and better. That didn't really happen on the offensive side of the ball, In the last 7 games of last year we scored only 107 points - only 15 points per game. This year our last 7 games we have scored 97 - 13.7 points per game. All things considered, it is hard not to conclude that we are way out of our depth on offensive coaching ability. Shafer seemed to recognize that when he demoted McDonald, but anointing Lester seems to be a repeat of the same mistake. I am afraid that it is going to cost Shafer his job next year.

Don't be afraid it will cost him his job. If he puts all his chips on Lester and loses, that's on him. We move on. If it works out then we have a solid base moving fwd.

I plan on sitting back, neither high or low expectations - and what happens, happens. They know the stakes, we know the stakes. Go and do your job.

Or let the rebuilding begin.

 

[CousCuse]

No big name coach on a high career trajectory would take a job like this because he would know it would take time and the likelihood of having bad seasons ( INJURIES ) , like the one now , would turn the fans on him and make the job difficult if not impossible. Stay the course with Scott for at least 3 more years.

 

[Chip]

Every year you wait (if you really know the answer) is a risk.

But he's not going anywhere, so we just need to ride it out. If we're going to get to the new benchmark of 6 wins next year it's going to take at least 2 upsets and no stubbed toes at, say, USF.

Wish I knew what Syverud thought about it.

 

[NKR1978]

No big name coach on a high career trajectory would take a job like this because he would know it would take time and the likelihood of having bad seasons ( INJURIES ) , like the one now , would turn the fans on him and make the job difficult if not impossible. Stay the course with Scott for at least 3 more years.

In a normal situation I'd agree that you can't fire a guy after two years. But Shafer was hired as a quick and easy fill in after Marrone left late in the hiring cycle with signing day a few weeks off. We really didn't have the time for a national search.

It's pretty obvious that he's in over his head. And I'm pretty sure that SU could easily sell the job based off the fact that our hands were tied when we hired Shafer.

 

[Chip]

When you win 3 games, you're not going to have to rebuild. It doesn't get much worse, especially when you have URI and Central Michigan on next year's schedule.

Marrone's 2009 team was instantly better than GRob's 2008. Addazio's 2013 team was instantly better than Spaziani's 2012 team. (There's a theme there too of offensive guys taking over for defensive guys).

The thought that we'd go backwards is odd. How can we go backwards from this?

 

[tipphill]

Let me start by saying that I like Shafer and want this to work. That said, I think he's made some bad decisions, and I'm concerned that on offense the band Shafer brought together has a pretty low ceiling. The injuries haven't helped this season, but they can't excuse everything (PUNTERS GOTTA PUNT). Shafer likely has another year to right the ship, and I'd like to see that happen.

I'm not sure why people are so afraid of rebuilding though. If you think our problem is talent, I'm not sure we've seen enough from this staff to suggest that they're going to get us significantly better talent, or coach up in a really meaningful way the talent we have. In fact, we're at a big risk of losing the guy that gives us our best chance to improve the talent in McDonald. If talent is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better attracting and developing talent with a different staff, especially with the IPF on the way.

If the talent is there but it's the coaching that is lacking, should we be so concerned about losing coaches that struggle so much to scheme better performance from their team? In fairness to the defense, which I feel was shaky last season, we can rely on our defense this season to be solid against any opponent that isn't Top 10. On the other hand, the offense is a complete mess, and our special teams fail to provide good field position for both the offense and defense. If coaching is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better with a different staff, depending on the experience they bring to the table.

If you think the problem is conditional, ie our program is not attractive enough to attract a good coach, our program is unwilling to pay for a competent staff, we have a schedule that's too difficult, that we have a geographical disadvantage that's too difficult to overcome, or that the program can't afford another prolonged rebuilding period, the only answer to any of these problems is to come up with an innovative solution and exploit some type of inefficiency other like football programs haven't figured out. If that's what we're left with, I'm not so sure we've seen a whole lot of innovation out of this staff. In fact, I worry that they mistake getting cutesy with creativity, and outsmart themselves more often than not. If a lack of innovative solutions is our problem, I think it's fair to ask if a new staff might provide some fresh ideas.

In short, this season is a bust. The best course of action is to keep recruiting, get the returning players going strong in S&C, hope the staff has learned some lessons taking their lumps this season, and look for reasons for optimism next season. I expect that we'll know pretty early in the 2015 season if things are going in the right direction or if they're not. I'll be looking to see if we're making the smartest decisions whenever we have choices, regardless of any other circumstances. If we do, in my eyes it's not too late for this staff to be successful. If we don't, we're rebuilding anyway, so we might as well rebuild with people that can bring something different to the table.

College sports isn't like professional sports - there's no free agency (well, kinda) or lottery you look to when you need to improve. You get better through some combination of resources, smarts, and taking advantage of what you have that others don't, whatever that might be. It's on the coaches to provide the latter two on that list. If this staff can't, we can find one that can. They are out there. They would like to be here, they would take our money, and they would try different things to see if they work.

shafer needs maturity and a highly skilled supportive coaching staff. his maturity level is a problem as it transcends his perspective and decision making process. as many of us feel we want the guy to succeed but he seems to be stagnate. he needs a very mature staff.

 

[Chip]

shafer needs maturity and a highly skilled supportive coaching staff. his maturity level is a problem as it transcends his perspective and decision making process. as many of us feel we want the guy to succeed but he seems to be stagnate. he needs a very mature staff.

So basically if this is going to work, we need to get him 2 more qualified deputies and give them input on all decisions.

 

[tipphill]

So basically if this is going to work, we need to get him 2 more qualified deputies and give them input on all decisions.

input on all decisions, no. considered opinions is one role of coordinators. shafer is the ceo, and his staff are the bod who advise him. he alone makes the decisions.right now shafer is lost in defining himself as a ceo and he has a poor bod.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

No big name coach on a high career trajectory would take a job like this because he would know it would take time and the likelihood of having bad seasons ( INJURIES ) , like the one now , would turn the fans on him and make the job difficult if not impossible. Stay the course with Scott for at least 3 more years.

We don't need a big name. We need someone good.

I have to believe someone out there with HC experience and some upside would look at what our program offers and be interested.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

When you win 3 games, you're not going to have to rebuild. It doesn't get much worse, especially when you have URI and Central Michigan on next year's schedule.

Marrone's 2009 team was instantly better than GRob's 2008. Addazio's 2013 team was instantly better than Spaziani's 2012 team. (There's a theme there too of offensive guys taking over for defensive guys).

The thought that we'd go backwards is odd. How can we go backwards from this?

Exactly.

 

[Chip]

We don't need a big name. We need someone good.

I have to believe someone out there with HC experience and some upside would look at what our program offers and be interested.

Al Golden may be looking for work soon.

Of course, he has no testicles, but could be jobless nonetheless.

 

[Stern]

No big name coach on a high career trajectory would take a job like this because he would know it would take time and the likelihood of having bad seasons ( INJURIES ) , like the one now , would turn the fans on him and make the job difficult if not impossible. Stay the course with Scott for at least 3 more years.

3 more years and we won't have a football program left with this clown running the ship. No coach in america gets 5 years before a decision is made on them

You must not really follow college football if you think Shafer has it rough here now. At other schools the heat he would be under for a season like this is a million times worse. Syracuse is a tame fan-base and city when it comes to this.

 

[Stern]

We don't need a big name. We need someone good.

I have to believe someone out there with HC experience and some upside would look at what our program offers and be interested.

Matt Campbell the head coach at Toledo. Young, hungry, offensive minded, he relates to the modern athlete, proven winner at a MAC school. Head coaching experience. Going to SU would be a career step up for him.

Not a big name...just a proven head coach and someone with a proven track record

 

[rocklloyd]

3 more years and we won't have a football program left with this clown running the ship. No coach in america gets 5 years before a decision is made on them

You must not really follow college football if you think Shafer has it rough here now. At other schools the heat he would be under for a season like this is a million times worse. Syracuse is a tame fan-base and city when it comes to this.

Case in point, Nc state is getting ready to dump Doreen because they expect better.

 

[Crusty]

There may be a bigger issue brewing in the Athletics Department. If the BB team turns out to be an NIT team, and the NCAA issues sanctions, the new Chancellor may want to clean house starting with TGD. IF JB is forced to retire (unthinkable up until now), the message would certainly be that there is a new sheriff in town. The new AD could certainly sell the SU football program. There are only 66 P5 Head Coaching jobs in the country and we have one of them.

I think the only thing that will change the program is a sea change in thinking from above. Otherwise, it is just a football team - collect the ACC checks and move on.

 

[rocklloyd]

I think changes need to happen, but selfishly I can't sit through 4 more years of "need time to install my system"' "need to get my recruits", "need to open up new recruiting territories"' yada yada

I can't stand to watch yet another rebuilding process. We need a big name, proven recruiter if we are going to make a change. An up and coming guy is a multi year project. I'm afraid the program might be dead by then

 

[NKR1978]

3 more years and we won't have a football program left with this clown running the ship. No coach in america gets 5 years before a decision is made on them

You must not really follow college football if you think Shafer has it rough here now. At other schools the heat he would be under for a season like this is a million times worse. Syracuse is a tame fan-base and city when it comes to this.

And gerg2.0 didn't inherit the steaming pile of garbage that Marrone stepped into. The notion that he needs or deserves five is just crazy. Shafer walked into a situation with a program that was u in good shape. A middling program that could either continue on a positive trajectory or plummet back into the abyss.

We're back in the abyss and Shafer is not the man to get us out of it. But if we cut the chord now it at least won't be a complete rebuild.

 

[Crusty]

3 more years and we won't have a football program left with this clown running the ship. No coach in america gets 5 years before a decision is made on them

You must not really follow college football if you think Shafer has it rough here now. At other schools the heat he would be under for a season like this is a million times worse. Syracuse is a tame fan-base and city when it comes to this.

I would take your post more seriously if you eliminated the ad hominem attacks. Scott Shafer is a very decent human being who has served SU well in the past. His background is one of high character and he is not a clown.