Improving on perfection

[SWC75]

It absolutely contradicts what you said in your OP: "He's a skilled player but he's not having a great senior year. "

Sure doesn't seem like JB agrees with your assessment. Which largely seems to ignore the added defense focus that comes along with being the focal point of an offense. Nobody is suggesting that CJ is a transcendent talent. I'm also not claiming that it wouldn't be better for the team if he shot better from 3, started taking better care of the ball, etc. He's gone down in some statistical categories this season [up in others], but do you know what Scott Shafer would say about formulating an opinion of player performance solely on the basis of stats?

JB's comments speak volumes. This is a very, very good team. They are capable of making a deep run. And Boeheim feels that not only is CJ the best player on the team, but that his play is one of the main reasons we've been able to accomplish 19-0. Good enough for me.

You missed this: "I'm hoping the development of grant will take some of the defensive pressure off of Fair and make his job a bit easier."

I'm a big CJ fan. I'm not ripping him. I'm looking for ways this team can improve down the stretch because other teams will improve and I want our team to stay ahead of them. And an extra boost from one or more sources is often the key to a good stretch run. I think CJ can play better and maybe also be used a little better. That's something that could give us an extra boost.

 

[SWC75]

His efficiency has gone down as his usage rate has gone up--no question. And the turnovers have gone up, which is disappointing. But I don't agree that his game has taken a "step back." Here's why.

What made CJ highly effective in previous seasons as a complimentary offensive player was his smart shot selection, tremendous judgement when it came to picking his spots, and an almost preternatural ability to avoid mistakes / bad plays. Well, he can't be as selective this year because he's the focal point. He can't be the complimentary scorer who doesn't have any plays run for him--he's the guy that the offense runs through. He's not the fourth of fifth scoring option who cleans up and makes high IQ plays, he's arguably the top player on the team. He's showing more offensive versatility than at any point of his career, but along with the good comes some of the bad.

I would love to see him cut down on the turnovers. Would also like to see him start to connect more from three, although he certainly has hit some big ones this year at key times.

But he's been pretty damn good, especially when the game is tight. We're lucky to have a versatile scorer like him this year--he's not only been a big part of why we've been successful, but I'm actually a bit afraid of what might happen next year without some of his offensive capabilities.

He was certainly a focal point last year when he played the most minutes and scored the most points. He certainly wasn't the 4th or 5th scoring option. But he had a better year.

 

[RF2044]

He was certainly a focal point last year when he played the most minutes and scored the most points. He certainly wasn't the 4th or 5th scoring option. But he had a better year.

Nonsense. He absolutely was the fourth scoring option last year--behind MCW, Triche, and Southerland--all of whom had green lights and and offense designed to get them shots. CJ led the team in scoring DESPITE not having a single offensive set designed to have him score. This year, the isolation game with CJ is a major focus of our offensive game plan. He wasn't better last year, he was more efficient. A subtle but important distinction.

The year before, easily fifth [at best], even though he played big minutes as a reserve. Kris, Dion, Scoop, Triche.

 

[SWC75]

I'm not sure that their respective performances are on par, like you say. The top set of stats are Kris's from senior year. The bottom set are from CJ's [i.e., this year].

CJ is having a better statistical year almost across the board than Kris, producing more, etc. in a year where he is required to shoulder more of a load than Kris did his senior year [its this latter point that is the primary reason I disagree with your point about their seasons being on par]. The two lone statistics where he isn't is 3P% and FT% [74.5% to 72.6%--which is pretty close]. CJ is essentially a similar but better version of KJ in just about every facet of the game.


SeasonSchoolConfGMPFGFGAFG%2P2PA2P%3P3PA3P%FTFTAFT%TRBASTSTLBLKTOVPFPTS

2011-12SyracuseBig East3732.24.410.5.4213.16.5.4671.44.0.3453.24.2.7454.71.51.40.61.51.713.4



SeasonSchoolConfGMPFGFGAFG%2P2PA2P%3P3PA3P%FTFTAFT%TRBASTSTLBLKTOVPFPTS

2013-14SyracuseACC1936.66.414.2.4485.611.4.4880.82.8.2833.24.4.7265.81.51.50.72.71.916.7


Edit: those are tough to read--here are the links--


Kris

CJ

Kris Joseph as a senior:
32.2m 16.6p 5.8r 1.9a 1.7s 0.8b = 26.8+ 7.6mfg 1.3mft 1.8to 2.1pf = 12.8 = 14.0NP 7.7OE 6.3FG

CJ so far this year:
36.6m 18.3p 6.4r 1.7a 1.6s 0.7b = 28.7+ 8.6mfg 1.3mft 3.3to 2.1pf = 15.3 = 13.4NP 8.4OE 5.0FG

CJ's scoring more, missing more and making more turnovers. But it's not a bad comparison over all.

 

[SWC75]

Nonsense. He absolutely was the fourth scoring option last year--behind MCW, Triche, and Southerland--all of whom had green lights and and offense designed to get them shots. CJ led the team in scoring DESPITE not having a single offensive set designed to have him score. This year, the isolation game with CJ is a major focus of our offensive game plan. He wasn't better last year, he was more efficient. A subtle but important distinction.

The year before, easily fifth [at best], even though he played big minutes as a reserve. Kris, Dion, Scoop, Triche.

he also attempt more shots than anyone last year. To say that he was fourth scoring option is absurd.

 

[RF2044]

Kris Joseph as a senior:
32.2m 16.6p 5.8r 1.9a 1.7s 0.8b = 26.8+ 7.6mfg 1.3mft 1.8to 2.1pf = 12.8 = 14.0NP 7.7OE 6.3FG

CJ so far this year:
36.6m 18.3p 6.4r 1.7a 1.6s 0.7b = 28.7+ 8.6mfg 1.3mft 3.3to 2.1pf = 15.3 = 13.4NP 8.4OE 5.0FG

CJ's scoring more, missing more and making more turnovers. But it's not a bad comparison over all.

You forgot to add playing more, rebounding more, stealing the ball more, and getting more assists--all while being the main focal point of the offense, while Kris didn't necessarily have that same responsibility.

CJ is better than KJ in just about every facet of the game.

 

[RF2044]

he also attempt more shots than anyone last year. To say that he was fourth scoring option is absurd.

To say that he wasn't demonstrates that you don't know what it means.

 

[SWC75]

To say that he wasn't demonstrates that you don't know what it means.

You don't think the guy who attempted the most shots and scored the most points was a guy the defense concentrated on?

 

[RF2044]

You don't think the guy who attempted the most shots and scored the most points was a guy the defense concentrated on?

No, I don't think that CJ was the guy that defenses concentrated on stopping from last year's team. Southerland and the two guards were the focal points of our offense, and the players that opposing defenses concentrated on slowing down.

 

[orangefan13]

Got to agree with swc on this one. CJ could spotup, pullup off the dribble floater and jumper), attack the rim, hit the occasional 3 like mike and run isolation play. You had to play him tight 12 feet in and when you did he would go around you and score.

Compare that to mcw(to he starting making shots midrange), triche and southerland and none are even close that multidimentional.

Triche was the 4th scoring option (although not against michigan it was southerland). Mike may have been 4th until he finally starting making his midrange floaters the last quarter of the season.

 

[RF2044]

Got to agree with swc on this one. CJ could a spotup, shoot off the dribble floater and pullup, attack the rim, and run isolation play.

Compare that to mcw(to he starting making shots midrange), triche and southerland and none are even close.

Do you understand what you are watching when you watched our team run their offensive sets last season? Because I'm guessing not based upon the perspective you are espousing.

The offense was NOT designed to get CJ shots--certainly not isolations. The vast majority of shots / scores / looks he exploited weren't designed plays, they were him creating in space and taking advantage of the holes defenses gave up overplaying the other three.

Southerland drew a LOT of defensive attention last season. A lot. And despite your take on MCW and Triche, they were the guys with the ball in their hands and the green light to shoot every game.

 

[orangefan13]

CJ shot or created a shot with a defender in front of him, triche and southerland didn't thats all you need to know about who should be a bigger option.

triche had only one way of scoring outside of transition. He was always on the left side of the court would drive aorund the elbow and pull up or if lucky take a layup. And 66% of the time it wasn't a isolation play(more of a halfcourt transition alot of times around a highpost(not even a three point line screen).

MCW averaged proabably 4-5 of his 11.9 ppg in transition. That knocks him down to like 7-8 ppg in the halfcourt set. He had probably 14 points the first 14 games of the season from 5 feet to inside the three point line, literally. CJ Fair averaged 14.5 and mcw was so good in transition that he probably only averaged 1 transition point if that knocking him to 13.5 ppg vs mcw's 8. Big difference. Not even close.

CJ had isolation play his man was in front of him more times he scored then not unlike triche or southerland. If they played off of him he pulled up, if they stayed on him like glue he went around them and pulled up or took him to the rim. he shot a spotup better then triche. CJ was our only scorer in the post as well teams recognized that.

I don't think Triche ever pulled up with a defender right in front of them and southerland maybe 5 times. CJ will pullup with anyone on him that he can shoot over if hes 14 feet out.

I will say Fair was rarely doubled but he didn't get his buckets from having a step on his man when he recieved the ball like Southerland and Triche. If you need to have a step on your man like southerland or triche you don't want them to be your 2nd scoring option but a backdoor plan. If they can get open though and have a step on their man for their shot by all means get them the ball at will.

I will agree plays were designed to get triche to the left elbow and southerland open for 3 but the key word is open where cj wasn't open the majority of his buckets. He earned his the hard way. We ran those plays becuase we needed southerland and triche to score.

 

[BludOrange]

CJ was not the first option, because they needed him to be the last option. Would you rather have him going one on one, or someone else chucking up a prayer as time runs out? The final option being good in this case, as JB knew CJ can and will get his, where as Southerland and Triche needed a play ran for them to find a look and one never knows if that look will ever be there. So why not at least take a look at something you are not sure will be there or work that could get the crowd off it's asses, gets Raferty to scream "onions" or "dagger" and gets you 3 points before going straight to CJ. More plays were called for Southerland and Triche, but was all based on if they were going to have an open look. If they were not open the ball kept moving till it got to CJ's hands or MCW was forced to drive due to the shot clock running down.

 

[pfister1]

- I kind of like Grant at the foul line area as opposed to CJ. I think Grant does a better of driving the ball without turning it over. I don't know if the two things coincide, but early in the season CJ was a turnover machine. Before January 1st he had 7 games with 4 or more turnovers. Since January 1st only 1. Some of this may be a change in the pace of the games, but I think some of it is also a more Jerami at the free throw line/high post and less CJ.

- I love the offense and confidence that we are seeing from Rak. The light bulb has gone on only its not an incandescent bulb that turns on full power all at once, its more of a CFL that warms up to full power over time. I think we are going to see his ability to contribute on the offensive end continue to grow as the season progresses.

- I wouldn't use JB's endorsement of CJ as our best player as evidence of anything. JB is notoriously loyal to his 4 year players and he is also known for saying things that may not be 100% factually accurate if he thinks it will help one of his guys that has earned his loyalty. Right now CJ is the guy on the roster whose time it is and who has earned JB's support and I wouldn't expect JB to say anything less. I don't even necessarily disagree with the point, just don't think that JB's quote means squatola.

- The things that I think stand between us and a truly memorable finish to the season:
- Consistency in Cooney's shot...... consistent makes that is.
- Rak's continued development of his offensive game.
- Stay healthy, academically eligible and let the Coleman injury be our only player loss for the season.

 

[SWC75]

CJ was not the first option, because they needed him to be the last option. Would you rather have him going one on one, or someone else chucking up a prayer as time runs out? The final option being good in this case, as JB knew CJ can and will get his, where as Southerland and Triche needed a play ran for them to find a look and one never knows if that look will ever be there. So why not at least take a look at something you are not sure will be there or work that could get the crowd off it's asses, gets Raferty to scream "onions" or "dagger" and gets you 3 points before going straight to CJ. More plays were called for Southerland and Triche, but was all based on if they were going to have an open look. If they were not open the ball kept moving till it got to CJ's hands or MCW was forced to drive due to the shot clock running down.

But the issue is who got the most attention from the defense. I don't think CJ Fair was the fourth thing the other coach was thinking about last year.

 

[BludOrange]

other then not wanting to let Southerland get an open look, i think teams keyed on whoever had the ball. meaning no one got any more attention then anyone else. We had too much balence for opponents to be able to focus on any one player.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

other then not wanting to let Southerland get an open look, i think teams keyed on whoever had the ball. meaning no one got any more attention then anyone else. We had too much balence for opponents to be able to focus on any one player.

I think that may start happening in the future this year. Cooney is already watched, but Grant has come on tremendously recently and Ennis has shown good flashes.
I hope this can allow CJ a slight change to allowing his more efficient self to emerge and not feel as pressured to carry the load.

 

[BludOrange]

it's easier to take something away, when you know what that something is. Eliminate all options that you canand hope the variable(CJ) does not beat you. Easy to face guard James or lay off MCW and try to stop his driving to the tin. Centers were not to be feared on the offensive end as teams knew we were not looking to go to them for points and Triche usually needed a screen to get an open look or drive if not in transition. Teams did not know what to expect from CJ, as he could hit a 3, handle the ball one on one, and also a deadly mid range game.
So take away what you can, and hope what you can't, does not beat you.

 

[orangefan13]

Some Leading scorers through the last few years.

03-06 Gerry- could take his man one on one and shoot over them. Warrick could take them off the dribble or shoot over them.
07 Nichols could take his man one on one and shoot over them
08-09 Flynn- could blow by his man in isolation before shooting Devendorf could take his man on one. Rautins 3rd scoring option
09-10 Wes -Could take his man one on one. Rautins - didn't take his man one on one but could shoot with a hand in his face AO could take his man one on one perimeter soph kjo took his man one on one
11-12 Scoop and Dion could take their man one on one. KJO could take his man one on one some.
12-13 Fair - could take his man one on one. MCW could take his man one on one.
13-14 Ennis can take his man one on one Fair can take his man one on one Jerami can take his man one on one at times but also operates more off a step on his man when he recieves the ball

Southerland almost never and triche very rarely could take their man one on one and shoot over them. Big difference.
The point is guys who can shoot over a man draped on them, or take them one on one, tend to be the big scorers and go to guys.

 

[RF2044]

Some Leading scorers through the last few years.

03-06 Gerry- could take his man one on one and shoot over them. Warrick could take them off the dribble or shoot over them.
07 Nichols could take his man one on one and shoot over them
08-09 Flynn- could blow by his man in isolation before shooting Devendorf could take his man on one. Rautins 3rd scoring option
09-10 Wes -Could take his man one on one. Rautins - didn't take his man one on one but could shoot with a hand in his face AO could take his man one on one perimeter soph kjo took his man one on one
11-12 Fair - could take his man one on one. MCW could take his man one on one.
12-13 Ennis can take his man one on one Fair can take his man one on one Jerami can take his man one on one at times but also operates more off a step on his man when he recieves the ball

Southerland almost never and triche very rarely could take their man one on one and shoot over them. Big difference.
The point is guys who can shoot over a man draped on them, or take them one on one, tend to be the big scorers and go to guys.

Gerry could take his man one on one?

NICHOLS could take his man one on one?

WES could take his man one on one?

That is exactly what those three couldn't do. In fact, it was a tremendous limitation of each of their three respective games. Flawed analysis.

 

[BludOrange]

I think that may start happening in the future this year. Cooney is already watched, but Grant has come on tremendously recently and Ennis has shown good flashes.
I hope this can allow CJ a slight change to allowing his more efficient self to emerge and not feel as pressured to carry the load.

with TE hitting 1-2 three's a game on only 1-3 attempts, teams are starting to not sag off of him which in return is opening the floor more for others. He may not shoot many, but i get the feeling that opposing coaches are starting to think he is a dead eye if wide open due to his percentage from deep. Same with Grant and his jumper from the elbow/foul line area. His defender tends to either sag off of him trying to help clog the middle and dare him to shoot, or start to close in on him now and in return, he goes right by them. It helps that defending guards can't leave Ennis or Cooney to help or to swipe at his arms when he puts in on the floor, does a piroette and dunks it.

 

[orangefan13]

I didn't say Gerry and nichols could take their man one on one I said they could take their man one on one which led to them shooting over them. Wes could take his man one on one some as well as shoot over them.

Thats a big reason southerland was so hot cold for such a good shooter. Same with Cooney alot this year. They can't pullup over their man off the dribble from outside, and don't shoot well with a hand in their face. Thats why they put up 28 points one game but then get knocked down to 11-12 ppg. If they pulled up for three off the dribble well they could have been averaging 17ppg.

 

[NateW]

Do you understand what you are watching when you watched our team run their offensive sets last season? Because I'm guessing not based upon the perspective you are espousing.

The offense was NOT designed to get CJ shots--certainly not isolations. The vast majority of shots / scores / looks he exploited weren't designed plays, they were him creating in space and taking advantage of the holes defenses gave up overplaying the other three.

Southerland drew a LOT of defensive attention last season. A lot. And despite your take on MCW and Triche, they were the guys with the ball in their hands and the green light to shoot every game.

If you can recall the Michigan game from last year, we were running our offense through CJ for the majority of that game. There were a lot of isolations for him that night. Perhaps it was more of a matchup thing because Michigan was undersized. I do agree that for much of the season we really didn't run sets for him but in the biggest game of the season JB made him the focal point.

CJ has been absolutely cold blooded this season, my only complaint is that he has been turning the ball over way too much. Other than that I have zero gripes about his play this season and we would be nowhere near 19-0 without his nearly perfect play late in games this season. He continues to make shot after shot in the clutch. He's been remarkable in my opinion.

 

[RF2044]

If you can recall the Michigan game from last year, we were running our offense through CJ for the majority of that game. There were a lot of isolations for him that night. Perhaps it was more of a matchup thing because Michigan was undersized. I do agree that for much of the season we really didn't run sets for him but in the biggest game of the season JB made him the focal point.

CJ has been absolutely cold blooded this season, my only complaint is that he has been turning the ball over way too much. Other than that I have zero gripes about his play this season and we would be nowhere near 19-0 without his nearly perfect play late in games this season. He continues to make shot after shot in the clutch. He's been remarkable in my opinion.

The Michigan game was an outlier in that it was one of our least productive team offensive performances of the year--and it couldn't have come at a worse time, with a national championship berth on the line. MCW and Southerland were arguably our two most important offensive cogs last year, and they combined for 7 meager points. And 5 of those 7 Southerland scored during the last minute of the game. MCW, who had performed brilliantly throughout the NCAA tournament,was obviously held to the other 2 points in his matchup with Trey Burke.

As you point out, CJ was the lone player who had an outstanding offensive performance that game [Triche also was solid, and Grant was a terror on the boards--but other than that we were pretty crappy across the board]. I've watched that game a couple of times [in person and on tape], and I don't think that we ran set plays for CJ so much as he was hot and stepped up in a game where nobody else was getting the job done offensively.

I'd really need to watch again to play closer attention specifically to that--he was being guarded by a player he had a size advantage over, so maybe. But regardless, you and I are on the same page about him not having sets run for him.

Love the rest of your post, BTW. He has been pretty damn good--he and Grant give us a forward duo with unmatched versatility. What a tough pair to guard!