Is HCIW Hopkins Written In Stone?

[Rage4CUSE]

That is what he is supposed to tell the public. I could have told you that what his PR statement would be. But behind closed doors, I bet that conversation is different.

 

[cuseguy]

These next 15 games will speak volumes. If JB rallies the team and they go, say, 9-6, Hop's performance will grade out poorly. If the team goes, say, 7-8, Hop will get a pass.

But I still don't think you can completely judge Hop on nine games in the middle of a season with JB's team. There were bound to be some rough patches.

 

[HOFCeluck]

These next 15 games will speak volumes. If JB rallies the team and they go, say, 9-6, Hop's performance will grade out poorly. If the team goes, say, 7-8, Hop will get a pass.

But I still don't think you can completely judge Hop on nine games in the middle of a season with JB's team. There were bound to be some rough patches.

I 100% agree that you can't judge him completely based on these nine games.

That being said, I don't really get warm and fuzzies knowing that Hop is going to take over in 2-3 years.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

These next 15 games will speak volumes. If JB rallies the team and they go, say, 9-6, Hop's performance will grade out poorly. If the team goes, say, 7-8, Hop will get a pass.

But I still don't think you can completely judge Hop on nine games in the middle of a season with JB's team. There were bound to be some rough patches.

So, if we win, Hop loses. And if we lose, Hop wins.

 

[cuseguy]

I 100% agree that you can't judge him completely based on these nine games. That being said, I don't really get warm and fuzzies knowing that Hop is going to take over in 2-3 years.

Understandable. But I think Hop's approach, once it's his team, will be much different over time.

 

[81South]

Needs to call time outs during runs, which I'm pretty sure he didn't when Clemson went on a run in the 1st half to take a 9 point lead.

Was Franklin Howard out for last nights game too? Because if he wasn't that would be another problem since he didn't see the court at all.

Frankie was sitting out again...out with an unspecified virus.

 

[Orangello]

This is a seriously flawed team both offensively and defensively anyway you dice it. John Wooden isn't winning twenty games with this bunch.

I'm sure that Hop has learned that it's a lot harder then it looks being in the driver's seat during the heat of battle. I'm more worried about our need for a big, forwards who can actually drive to the basket, shoot and defend and a point guard who can protect the ball and run the offense.

 

[BlazeOrange]

I think this was a great way for Hop to get 9 games under his belt without anyone holding his hand...now JB can come back and they can talk about what he saw from home, and what he might have done differently etc.
I think it might be a great learning experience for Hop.

The problem is that most accounts are that Hop tried to coach "JB Style" rather than how he would do it with his own team. I considered making a new thread to discuss the pros/cons of that strategy, but may as well do it here...

Hop coaches like JB:
- He could be acting under orders on what to do.
- Doesn't make sense to temporarily change things up, then return to the other way, particularly on a team that is struggling with concepts.
- If he was successful, JB's system gets the credit and the "Hop is ready" contingent only gets a slight boost.
- If he failed, the "Hop isn't ready" contingent becomes vocal while the other side has a built-in excuse.

Hop does his own thing:
- Although he may be acting under orders on what to do, game situations could dictate a change in tactics.
- He could try out some ideas that he's tried to get JB to use in the past and get his feedback later on.
- Knowing that his performance will be dissected and people will find every little detail that they thought JB would do differently, it isn't worth trying to emulate him.
- If he was successful, there would be divisions over which approach to continue on with, possibly leading to uncomfortable discussions about the transition schedule.
- If he failed, the "Hop isn't ready" contingent becomes vocal and grows.

Did JB give him marching orders or should he have told Hop to do everything his way? Or did Hop decide on his own how to handle the team?

 

[Orangeman]

We have no center.

You can't seriously expect to be good with no center.

You CAN adjust the strategy to one that performs best with no center. People here act like there are 327 centers out there for all 300+ college basketball teams

 

[NYCSUGrad]

This is a seriously flawed team both offensively and defensively anyway you dice it. John Wooden isn't winning twenty games with this bunch.

I'm sure that Hop has learned that it's a lot harder then it looks being in the driver's seat during the heat of battle. I'm more worried about our need for a big, forwards who can actually drive to the basket, shoot and defend and a point guard who can protect the ball and run the offense.

Exactly. Even our veteran players, 5th year seniors, are terribly erratic. That's not hop's fault. When he does become head coach, he will presumably have the luxury of consulting with JB as he wishes, which was forbidden during these 9 games, while implementing whatever changes from JBs style he feels are apt.

 

[PoppyHart]

On one hand we can justify or qualify the results under Hopkins (caretaker, rushed into action, weaker than normal roster, etc...)

On the other hand, can anyone name ONE coach at a top-100 caliber program who would NOT have gone 4-5 during this stretch, with home games against Colgate, Cornell, Texas Southern and Montana State?

JB likes to talk about dead man and rebounding. The proverbial dead man may have gone 4-5.

 

[81South]

People with inside knowledge indicate that Hop will mix in man 2 man defense. This is great news, he obviously sees the value in having different options available. But, there was NO way Mike was going to play man during this 9 game stint. I don't think it would sit well with JB at ALL. It would also have likely created a bunch of unneeded controversy. So what I'm saying is that Mike stuck to the script.

 

[br801]

I think a lot of what I'm reading in this thread is over the top hysteria. I've watched the entire JB era unfold with my own eyes, and I'm a huge fan of his, but given the circumstances surrounding this team and the roster construction, I can't honestly say that JB would have done better than 4-5 over this stretch.

 

[Ozcuse]

I think a lot of what I'm reading in this thread is over the top hysteria. I've watched the entire JB era unfold with my own eyes, and I'm a huge fan of his, but given the circumstances surrounding this team and the roster construction, I can't honestly say that JB would have done better than 4-5 over this stretch.

Why? Boeheim just went 6-1 with two wins vs Top 25 teams just prior to this stretch. Same team, no real injuries, same scheme, just different head coaches. Hop's team shat the bed against anyone with a pulse (not sure St. John's should even be considered having a pulse losing by 20+ to Incarnate Word and St. Thomas Aquinas- are those even college programs???).

 

[FrancoPizza]

You CAN adjust the strategy to one that performs best with no center.

But that would require coming out of the zone on occasion or as the situation dictates. JB signed away the rights to any other options, so all we can do is sit and watch the train wreck continue.

Anyway, back on topic, my biggest takeaway with Hop is that he acted more like a custodian or a hands-off babysitter than a head coach on the sidelines. He was never ripping officials on questionable calls. His timeouts were never proactive. To my knowledge, he was never diagramming plays out of timeouts. It was almost as if he was overly conservative not to do anything off-script. Unfortunately, the players pick up on that and in turn are less likely to be locked in to any wrinkles or directions that he does give out (e.g. fouling under 8 seconds). In fact, I hope that's what happened because it would mean we haven't seen the real Hopkins yet.

Why? Boeheim just went 6-1 with two wins vs Top 25 teams just prior to this stretch

His 1 loss was to a crappy Wisconsin team at home, which played out much like the other losses to bad teams. Also please note that they had to come from behind to beat Lehigh and St. Bonaventure. The writing was on the wall. Speculation is pointless and there is enough evidence to suggest JB could easily have the same record in this 9 game stretch, save for maybe winning 1 more game.

 

[Madbiker]

Too small a sample? He'll have coached 29% of the games this season. What's a big enough sample to decide he'll coach the program into the ground?

9 games? 4-5. wow. He isn't even free to coach his own "style" so we don't know what changes he would make. Want to see a quick fix? Go recruit a couple of 5 stars and the team will play great. Hop has a track record as a recruiter...he can do it again. Give the guy a chance before you Jerry Jones him.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Why? Boeheim just went 6-1 with two wins vs Top 25 teams just prior to this stretch. Same team, no real injuries, same scheme, just different head coaches. Hop's team shat the bed against anyone with a pulse (not sure St. John's should even be considered having a pulse losing by 20+ to Incarnate Word and St. Thomas Aquinas- are those even college programs???).

Boeheim also lost to Wisconsin.

 

[cuseguy]

I think a lot of what I'm reading in this thread is over the top hysteria. I've watched the entire JB era unfold with my own eyes, and I'm a huge fan of his, but given the circumstances surrounding this team and the roster construction, I can't honestly say that JB would have done better than 4-5 over this stretch.

Our performance in Atlantis has skewered everything.

 

[Ozcuse]

Boeheim also lost to Wisconsin.

Where did I not say we went 6-1 with two Top 25 wins?

6-1 Boeheim against two top 25 teams

4-5 Hopkins against two top 25 teams

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Where did I not say we went 6-1 with two Top 25 wins?

6-1 Boeheim against two top 25 teams

4-5 Hopkins against two top 25 teams

We played like ass against Wisconsin. The bed shatting started before Hop took over.

 

[br801]

His 1 loss was to a crappy Wisconsin team at home, which played out much like the other losses to bad teams. Also please note that they had to come from behind to beat Lehigh and St. Bonaventure. The writing was on the wall. Speculation is pointless and there is enough evidence to suggest JB could easily have the same record in this 9 game stretch, save for maybe winning 1 more game.

I'm concerned that I find myself agreeing with some of your recent posts. I shall go rest now.

 

[cuseguy]

We didn't play particularly well in some of the games before Atlantis.

I remember thinking after the opener against Lehigh, this team is suspect and may struggle.

 

[cuseinseattle]

JB was beaten badly at Clemson last year.

Our final 4 team from a few years ago was beaten badly at Georgetown.

We lost at home to St. John's last year.

The Clemson and St. John statements are fair but I wish people would stop saying we lost to Georgetown the year we went to the Final 4. That team was in the top 10 and had a lottery pick on it who was probably the best player JTIII has had at Georgetown. It's not apples to apples.

 

[cuseguy]

The Clemson and St. John statements are fair but I wish people would stop saying we lost to Georgetown the year we went to the Final 4. That team was in the top 10 and had a lottery pick on it who was probably the best player JTIII has had at Georgetown. It's not apples to apples.

The point is JB is far from perfect. Far from it.

 

[Ozcuse]

We played like ass against Wisconsin. The bed shatting started before Hop took over.

If you don't see a difference between the #14 team losing to a well coached (pre-Ryan retirement) Wisconsin team in OT and an embarrassing loss to St. John's that is a tire fire of a program that has lost to St. Thomas Aquinas and Incarnate Word, both by 20+ then I don't know what to tell you.

JB would not have lost to St. John's or Clemson. I strongly believe we would have won the Georgetown game as well with JB in charge.

9-6 vs 12-3 is all the difference in the world.