Is HCIW Hopkins Written In Stone?

[Knicks411]

That's pretty amazing looking at that laid out that way. I'm actually slightly surprised that Self hasn't been run out of there. He's made two elite 8s since 2008 (or the same number as SU) with that much talent. Crazy.

His tournament track record isn't great, but he has the title in 2008, and his team literally wins the league every year.

 

[cuseguy]

Clemson and St. John's are horrific losses. Could be two of the worst ones over the last decade to be honest with you. Clemson lost to a bad UMass team by 17 points. St. John's, as many posters have already alluded to, is terrible. Hopkins isn't above criticism. If JB had lost to these teams, he'd be criticized, too. And it's not a sure thing that us as fans will be happy that Hopkins takes over full time. I hope so, but he has gotten me very worried with this stretch.

Clemson losing to UMass is meaningless.

Monmouth beat Georgetown.

Army beat Monmouth.

Monmouth beat UCLA.

UCLA beat Kentucky.

 

[SUFan44]

Clemson losing to UMass is meaningless.

Monmouth beat Georgetown.

Army beat Monmouth.

Monmouth beat UCLA.

UCLA beat Kentucky.

That sequence you are describing is four teams removed from anyone we played. UMass played Clemson, who directly played us. A lot different. Clemson and Georgetown both stink this year. And should not have been losses.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

That sequence you are describing is four teams removed from anyone we played. UMass played Clemson, who directly played us. A lot different. Clemson and Georgetown both stink this year. And should not have been losses.

So does Wisconsin and we shouldn't have lost to them at home. We don't have a very good team, regardless of who is coaching.

 

[SUFan44]

So does Wisconsin and we shouldn't have lost to them at home. We don't have a very good team, regardless of who is coaching.

We lost in OT after leading the majority of the way - and Bo Ryan was coaching the team.

Agreed, we aren't great. But we're better than losing to St. John's & Clemson.

 

[81South]

Not sure why some think Wisconsin was an awful loss. They have some very good players who had been to back 2 back final fours. Sure they are down this year but losing to them is not even close to losing to St. Johns (that loss was AWFUL).

 

[HOFCeluck]

Not sure why some think Wisconsin was an awful loss. They have some very good players who had been to back 2 back final fours. Sure they are down this year but losing to them is not even close to losing to St. Johns (that loss was AWFUL).

Wisconsin is 9-7. Losing to them at home is a pretty bad loss.

 

[81South]

Wisconsin is 9-7.

We are a whopping 10-6 and have no players with final 4.experience. calling that a really bad loss is not being objective.

 

[kirbivore]

His tournament track record isn't great, but he has the title in 2008, and his team literally wins the league every year.

that's the sign of a mid major league, like Gonzaga in the WCC

 

[Rage4CUSE]

So your talking crap and u didn't watch the game. That's funny

No I watched the game. At the time I was about 98% certain Howard hadn't played in the game, but that 2% made me ask for sure that he didn't because of Illness, or if Hopkins just never put him in.

 

[HOFCeluck]

To be fair, I said "pretty bad." It wasn't a good loss. We can split hairs all we want.

And TBH I couldn't care less who on this current Wiscy team played in the final four. Otis Hill, Jason Cipolla, and Todd Burgan's collective final four experience didn't make that 1997 team anything better than mediocre at best.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

We lost in OT after leading the majority of the way - and Bo Ryan was coaching the team.

Agreed, we aren't great. But we're better than losing to St. John's & Clemson.

Was Bo Ryan coaching Wisconsin when they lost to Western Illinois at home? Wisconsin stinks and we lost to them at home. We lost in OT to Clemson too. For the same reason. Couldn't hit a free throw in regulation. That's not Boeheim or Hopkins' fault.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Don't forget Boeheim was 18-13 last year and lost his best player. Boeheim had 1 good win in Atlantis (Uconn is not a good team) and a bad loss at home to Wisconsin. Had some other not so good wins too. Hopkins will not be judged on these games. Not sure Boehiem does much better, if at all. Hopkins is running Boeheim's system.

Boeheim absolutely wins the SJU game. Wins the Clemson game. Maybe wins another.

 

[Quazzum69]

Mike has paid his dues, waited patiently, and has earned the opportunity. It would be a travesty if he was denied his chance.

He can't be judged until he is his own man. Now, he is coaching in Jimmy's shadow and it shows.

We all know Mike can recruit, and it starts with having the right talent. The game day finesse will come.

This isn't a charity or everyone gets a trophy thing. It's a big, profitable business that depends on winning games for revenue. If there is someone better out there that can win more games they should be hired.

It's been 20 years since he's starting coaching. He could be almost 50 years old by the time he gets his first HC gig. That doesn't seem like seem like someone you hand over the keys to a top 10 program in the middle of a major slump.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Boeheim absolutely wins the SJU game. Wins the Clemson game. Maybe wins another.

Why? He lost to a bad Wisconsin team at home. What would Boehiem have done differently? Again Boeheim was 18-13 last year with an all ACC center, which he lost.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

How quickly we forget Roc Christmas.

Rak was a McD kid out of high school and still took 3 years to blossom in his 4th. That's not evidence, either way, of Hopkins' prowess coaching bigs. What percentage of McD kids stay all four years? Then get drafted late. Then don't play for their NBA teams...

Don't misunderstand. Rak was amazing for us as a senior. Love him. On and off the court. But his is not a Hopkins 'success story.' It's a Rak story.

 

[br801]

Rak was a McD kid out of high school and still took 3 years to blossom in his 4th. That's not evidence, either way, of Hopkins' prowess coaching bigs. What percentage of McD kids stay all four years? Then get drafted late. Then don't play for their NBA teams...

Don't misunderstand. Rak was amazing for us as a senior. Love him. On and off the court. But his is not a Hopkins 'success story.' It's a Rak story.

And if Rak had blossomed sooner, it would have been because of his natural talent, and not because of coaching. Gotcha.

 

[realorange]

Rak was a McD kid out of high school and still took 3 years to blossom in his 4th. That's not evidence, either way, of Hopkins' prowess coaching bigs. What percentage of McD kids stay all four years? Then get drafted late. Then don't play for their NBA teams...

Don't misunderstand. Rak was amazing for us as a senior. Love him. On and off the court. But his is not a Hopkins 'success story.' It's a Rak story.

Agree to disagree. I think the main thing that Hop was able to do was to finally get Roc's attitude about his ability to the level it needed to be. It was finally in his senior year that Roc showed consistency in his take charge abilities on the court.

You can argue whether it was Hop or JB that couldn't light the fire before then.

 

[OrangeFoo]

And if Rak had blossomed sooner, it would have been because of his natural talent, and not because of coaching. Gotcha.

Raks biggest challenges were coaches who wouldn't feature him, guards who wouldn't pass to him and his own head. The talent and skills were always there but his first three years he had to defer to nba guards who somehow didn't know how to make an in interior pass. Also he was playing under JBs designated whipping boy program for his first three years and never played loose because he was always waiting for the hook. There were any number of debates on this board about whether Rak a) deserved the treatment JB gave him and b) whether he had the personality to take it. I think after multiple years we thought Rak was gone only to be surprised he came back. Much to Raks credit he stuck it out until JB had no choice but to feature him and let him play though his mistakes.

 

[br801]

Raks biggest challenges were coaches who wouldn't feature him, guards who wouldn't pass to him and his own head. The talent and skills were always there but his first three years he had to defer to nba guards who somehow didn't know how to make an in interior pass. Also he was playing under JBs designated whipping boy program for his first three years and never played loose because he was always waiting for the hook. There were any number of debates on this board about whether Rak a) deserved the treatment JB gave him and b) whether he had the personality to take it. I think after multiple years we thought Rak was gone only to be surprised he came back. Much to Raks credit he stuck it out until JB had no choice but to feature him and let him play though his mistakes.

So you're saying he was Boeheimed for three years and finally unleashed in year four. Whatever.

 

[cuseguy]

I remember watching RAK in high school and wondering how he made the McDonald's AA team. He was a big time project but he told people he wouldn't be at SU more than a year. I think his improvement was due to his work ethic as well as coaching from Hop and the staff.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

All I want is the AD to do an actual coaching search when it comes time to replace JB. Mike can definitely be in that search but I think it's crazy to just hand the keys of an elite program no questions asked to a guy who went 4-5 in his only head coaching experience.

If we do a legitimate search and the results come up with Coach Hopkins as the best solution then I will support it. Blind allegiance because he is "Boeheim's Guy" is crazy. You know who else was once Boeheim's guy? Bernie Fine.

Mike can definitely be in the search...isn't that generous of you.

 

[orangecuse]

Why? He lost to a bad Wisconsin team at home. What would Boehiem have done differently? Again Boeheim was 18-13 last year with an all ACC center, which he lost.

I think JB should've just gone out there and shot the frigging free throws himself. Then, 'he' would've won that game. Instead, we were 11-20 from the FT, where G and MR went a combined 2-7. Game would've never gone to OT...

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Boeheim likely would have been fired back in the mid 80's if some of the commenters in this thread had been in charge

Maybe. But, maybe the replacement would have won more games/NCs.
I also think you confuse matters here. Unless you're paying undue attention to the 'extremists.' I know a lot of people who never 'loved' Boeheim. Myself included. I don't think any of us ever disliked him enough to have fired him if we were in charge. There's a difference between that level of dissatisfaction versus the level of dissatisfaction that warrants ousting the guy. Forgive us morons for wanting/expecting more. One might suggest that people who don't want/expect more are not real fans.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

This is laughable.

If he had "more", why do our guys not destroy the NBA...or is that his fault too?

I don't get your 'logic.'
• An athlete comes to SU, at some stage of development.
• He plays at SU, at various stages of development.
• He leaves, and hopefully plays in the NBA, having 1) begun at SU at a certain level; and/or 2) been developed at SU.

So, if we're not producing NBA standouts, as you seem to acknowledge, then we're not bringing in players with the talent level high enough to succeed in the NBA, and/or we're not developing them well-enough while they're at SU.*

Are you:
• saying we don't recruit better than other schools that have produced more/better NBA players?
• denying that SU has not developed players well?


* Another incalculable option is that they somehow go 'off the rails' after they've left us, and their failures have nothing to do with anything experienced before the NBA. Who, other than Fab Melo, might qualify for that classification?