Is Syracuse Football A Lost Cause?

[USMCSnyper]

Nobody cares about football in Syracuse. I don’t even think Syracuse averages more than six wins per season throughout their history. it’s a basketball school. Do you care about all the money that Syracuse is making while Gonzaga and Connecticut make the elite eight every single year? Let’s call a spade a spade, and see Syracuse cares about making a lot of money from football, and being mediocre at football and basketball in the process because they are making money.

Must be from Ithaca

 

[IHeartSUFball]

Nobody cares about football in Syracuse. I don’t even think Syracuse averages more than six wins per season throughout their history. it’s a basketball school. Do you care about all the money that Syracuse is making while Gonzaga and Connecticut make the elite eight every single year? Let’s call a spade a spade, and see Syracuse cares about making a lot of money from football, and being mediocre at football and basketball in the process because they are making money.

Hey buddy, your UConn school there tried going to big 12 or somewhere for their football program. Their hoops would have to go as well, I’m sorry your big east wet dream is over. That conf stinks at hoops anyways

 

[CanadianSU]

Nobody cares about football in Syracuse. I don’t even think Syracuse averages more than six wins per season throughout their history. it’s a basketball school. Do you care about all the money that Syracuse is making while Gonzaga and Connecticut make the elite eight every single year? Let’s call a spade a spade, and see Syracuse cares about making a lot of money from football, and being mediocre at football and basketball in the process because they are making money.

There aren’t really “basketball schools”. Not many watch or follow CBB outside March.

 

[anomander]

We dance around this question a lot on this forum, so I figured it was time to pose it explicitly. Here is what we know:

1. Each school may set aside $20.5 million in revenue to split among all athletes, with any additional coming from NIL.
2. They claim that NIL payments will now be regulated more strictly to ensure that it is a legitimate NIL deal.
3. These wealthy boosters are very likely able to get around increased enforcement via actually putting these kids in ads.
4. Therefore, while the $20.5 million will help us significantly, it will not bring us to parity with peer schools.
5. We will spend most, though not all, of the $20.5 million on football.

Just doing some quick googling, it appears the top 25 football programs had NIL budgets starting at around $10 million, with the top 10 and especially top 5 being way above that. With athletic departments now being allowed to infuse cash directly, NIL has become a supplementary way to pay players rather than primary. One of the major questions people have is how that will impact donor investment into NIL. This is speculation, but my belief is that NIL donor activity will increase as a result, especially at the "rich" schools. That being said, we are probably looking at having a budget anywhere from half to 75% of our top level peers, depending on our corporate support.

It doesn't seem to me that we can compete in such an environment, as our best players will always get poached. Why wouldn't a Clemson or Florida State type of program just buy our best players every year? People may point to Indiana or Vanderbilt as examples of why we can still win, but these schools have far more resources than we do and have only been able to sustain this level of football for 1 or 2 seasons so far. This seems like a situation where we have been rendered structurally incapable of competing at the highest level of college football.

That being said, if you take the $20.5 million and apply it 100% to men's basketball, suddenly you probably have about $25 million annually in player payment budget. It has been publicly reported that the "$10 million club" is the gold standard currently for college basketball program NIL spending. 9 of the 10 programs in that $10 million club play high level football, and of those only Duke will spend a bulk of those funds on basketball. If the athletic department makes a conscious decision to pivot to a basketball centric focus, the basketball program actually could sustain one of the highest NIL budgets in the nation on an annual basis. At that point you would have a program with one of the largest fanbases, one of the largest NIL budgets, in relatively close proximity to hotbeds like NYC & Philadelphia, you can see how it brings basketball back to being a potential powerhouse.

That being said, it's not so cut and dry even if the AD wanted to make the pivot I am suggesting. The ACC will insist that we maintain high level football, so doing this would functionally mean we are telling the ACC to kick us out. It may lead to a few seasons of putting a shell of a football team out there to get slaughtered every fall. We would also be banking on the Big East taking us back when an eventual ACC split happens, which I think is a fairly safe bet.

To be clear, none of this speculation is something I enjoy stating. I have been a Syracuse football fan since I went to my first game at home against Rutgers when I was 11 years old back in 2003. I was a fan through Perry Patterson, Greg Paulus, Ryan Nassib, Terrell Hunt, AJ Long, Rex Culpepper, Zack Mahoney, Eric Dungey, you name it. But at this point I am looking at two floundering programs, and on the football side I just can't convince myself that we have any hope of competing at the highest level going forward. That being said, I would rather go all in on basketball with the prayer that we can get the program back to where it was when I was a kid than keep pretending we have a chance at competing in football.

College basketball is dead. It’s a regional sport at best.

 

[anomander]

Ability to win 10 games in a season one every ten years is not going to mean squat. There is going to be a financial commitment that SU and tons of others aren't going to be able to (or want to) meet. At that point we align with some suitable schools and keep going. Do fans follow, schools stay committed, etc...we shall see

The day Syracuse becomes a lower level program will be the day i stop caring and will not follow. I think that would go for a large percentage of what’s left of the die hard fan base.

 

[IHeartSUFball]

Basketball only people better hope we make breakaway for football or their college hoops program be in a conference with Lemoyne and New Haven, and they prob split those games

 

[IthaCuse]

This is an important point

The entire landscape is fast moving and dynamic. People are extrapolating current trends and that may be the wrong way to look at it

I believe we will see discipline in NIL in the next few years. The money is huge but not infinite. It’s very difficult to predict exactly how it will shake out in terms of future realignment, peak NIL, etc.

As a fan it sucks having a completely new roster each year

As a program all we can do is hire people to adapt and thrive in the ever changing landscape. I think Fran has many good qualities for this challenge even with his inexperience in other areas

It feels silly to give up because of the massive disruption. All it takes is a couple smart moves and you’re back in the mix.

This thread has gotten a lot of replies, some of them very intelligent and others downright moronic. This was the only comment that really made a convincing case to hold out hope for the football program. If this is the context in which Wildhack and SUAD are thinking, that actually would cause their behavior to make a lot more sense. Hiring someone like Fran Brown, a high risk/high reward move, is very justified in a world where you are hoping the status quo radically changes. If he can't get it done, it's not like a safer bet likely would have. If he can, you buy time for your program to survive until the next shift.

I see a lot of folks also saying things like "if your goal is to annually compete for a national championship, that was already unrealistic". I can only speak for myself as someone born in 1992 who really became a fan at the start of our decline around 2003, but the idea that we could rebuild this program towards a special season that culminates in a championship was always part of my worldview as a fan. Ever since Greg Robinson I was told that we were going to rebuild to the glory years, which included occasionally being in the hunt for a championship.

Again, I can only speak for myself in this, but I have no interest in following a sports league where my favorite team is structurally incapable of winning a national championship. I don't need my team to be a powerhouse, but I need there to be some level of hope. Otherwise I am just going to watch the Buffalo Bills instead. They make the playoffs every year, they return the majority of their starters every year, they have real rivals and actual traditions, at this point it is impossible to justify prioritizing Syracuse football over them as a fan. The only way to change that is if a change in the landscape renders us once again able to compete.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

This thread has gotten a lot of replies, some of them very intelligent and others downright moronic. This was the only comment that really made a convincing case to hold out hope for the football program. If this is the context in which Wildhack and SUAD are thinking, that actually would cause their behavior to make a lot more sense. Hiring someone like Fran Brown, a high risk/high reward move, is very justified in a world where you are hoping the status quo radically changes. If he can't get it done, it's not like a safer bet likely would have. If he can, you buy time for your program to survive until the next shift.

I see a lot of folks also saying things like "if your goal is to annually compete for a national championship, that was already unrealistic". I can only speak for myself as someone born in 1992 who really became a fan at the start of our decline around 2003, but the idea that we could rebuild this program towards a special season that culminates in a championship was always part of my worldview as a fan. Ever since Greg Robinson I was told that we were going to rebuild to the glory years, which included occasionally being in the hunt for a championship.

Again, I can only speak for myself in this, but I have no interest in following a sports league where my favorite team is structurally incapable of winning a national championship. I don't need my team to be a powerhouse, but I need there to be some level of hope. Otherwise I am just going to watch the Buffalo Bills instead. They make the playoffs every year, they return the majority of their starters every year, they have real rivals and actual traditions, at this point it is impossible to justify prioritizing Syracuse football over them as a fan. The only way to change that is if a change in the landscape renders us once again able to compete.

We're able to compete. See last year. We were on the way to a great season when the unimaginable happened.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[690West]

Nobody cares about football in Syracuse. I don’t even think Syracuse averages more than six wins per season throughout their history. it’s a basketball school. Do you care about all the money that Syracuse is making while Gonzaga and Connecticut make the elite eight every single year? Let’s call a spade a spade, and see Syracuse cares about making a lot of money from football, and being mediocre at football and basketball in the process because they are making money.

I love Hoyas more than cuse basketball only’s.

 

[elimunelson]

I think Coach Mac deserves a shout out for that as well.

I agree was trying to amplify the golden years where we sustained things. You are 100% right. That 87-98 golden era was really something to behold.

 

[SmilinBob]

Fran is an elite recruiter and that is so needed now with the free agency called the portal.

As for money, that's a whole different ballgame. It really depends on who and their means if they deem football worthy of that cash. Those who give $44 to millions will depend on what direction SU goes regarding the P4 and other factors.

Plus this constant uphill battle for TV and the like $. It feels like the SEC and Big 10 are just huge corporations that sue the little guys and delay until they no longer have enough money to pay their lawyers and have to fold.

 

[kcsu]

Floor was six, ceiling eight (?)

Above 8 would have taken some luck. Still a solid year vs what happened. Missing on Collins cost us the season.

 

[sufandu]

If Angeli doesn't get hurt and we make a bowl, do we still go out and get Kehres? Do we still go get Castillo?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Just shut the hell up my god

There’s an ignore button, not a cancel button.

 

[GoSU96]

Above 8 would have taken some luck. Still a solid year vs what happened. Missing on Collins cost us the season.

Yeah I think Miami and ND were baked in. .500 vs GT, Duke, SMU, and Pitt would be a good outcome. That gets 7-5.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah I think Miami and ND were baked in. .500 vs GT, Duke, SMU, and Pitt would be a good outcome. That gets 7-5.

We would have won Pitt, SMU, and North Carolina games.

 

[WoadBlue]

Basketball only people better hope we make breakaway for football or their college hoops program be in a conference with Lemoyne and New Haven, and they prob split those games

There are precious few basketball-only people anymore (at least they know better now than to express their faith). Even Indiana fans, with the worst football winning % of any school in the P4, now see the football light, because of the right hire as football HC.

What we still have at a number of schools and in conference offices (especially ACC but also Big 12 and even BT) is basketball-first people who accept that football is MUCH bigger and also want their basketball program to be tops in that sport and have it be the most popular sport among their fans, even if that means shuffling some major bucks to basketball and away from football. But they also want their school in a well paid football-first conference. UK is in the best shape that way because of all the SEC football wealth and power. And look at what BT basketball-first schools like IU and Illinois are accomplishing in football with BT money and prestige.

The problem for such basketball-first boosters and fans and school AD or league offices people is that the ACC TV deals must always remain way below those of BT and SEC, because we have so many fewer football fans. Hence, my calls to get shed of the ACC dead weight in that regard and replace with schools that fit the profile for what best makes for CFB wealth and power. That not being done will mean that as TV revenue disparity keeps growing that the most valuable ACC members will take an offer to leave.

 

[PAcuse]

Nobody cares about football in Syracuse. I don’t even think Syracuse averages more than six wins per season throughout their history. it’s a basketball school. Do you care about all the money that Syracuse is making while Gonzaga and Connecticut make the elite eight every single year? Let’s call a spade a spade, and see Syracuse cares about making a lot of money from football, and being mediocre at football and basketball in the process because they are making money.

6.09 wins per season for the 124 years of Syracuse football (which in includes 9 game seasons)
22nd most wins in D1 history.
Since 2018 just under 6 wins a season that's with the awful covid season and last year, without those it's over 7 wins a season.
Sorry your narrative does not work.

 

[orangetrain]

Only if our fans, community and businesses refuse to help in modern college football. We help, we compete. We do what we are now, we are a lost cause.

 

[bnoro]

Only if our fans, community and businesses refuse to help in modern college football. We help, we compete. We do what we are now, we are a lost cause.

But it shouldn't be like this. The community should be spending money to make itself better, not on essentially professional athletics.

We'll never be a selector school so we're already a lost cause on a macro level. It's not sustainable.

 

[orangetrain]

I agree 100%. It shouldn’t be like this at all, but it is the new reality. We have to decide what’s important to each of us. I do disagree that we can’t compete at a high level. Defeatism isn’t in my DNA. Many around here are defeatists, and that’s ok.
In 2026 I’m going to do my part because I want a major athletic program in my hometown.

 

[Cusefan69]

I agree 100%. It shouldn’t be like this at all, but it is the new reality. We have to decide what’s important to each of us. I do disagree that we can’t compete at a high level. Defeatism isn’t in my DNA. Many around here are defeatists, and that’s ok.
In 2026 I’m going to do my part because I want a major athletic program in my hometown.

If you are enough of a fan to hang on this website, you are likely already doing your part. Though what "doing your part " can mean a few different things. The AD and Fran in my opinion have to do their parts in terms of winning, finding "whale donors " and meeting with businesses to pull more funds. This past season Fran and Wildhack didn't fulfill their end of the bargain in terms of wins. Fran better turn it around in 26.

 

[JaySU22]

I’m sorry it does feel hopeless. I liken us to one of those small market mlb teams that spends about 10% of what the Yankees, Dodgers etc do. We are essentially a seat filler and any occasional talent we get will just be poached at the next portal opening by one of the behemoths.

If we can’t figure out how to get funds at least somewhat in the neighborhood of the big boys are ceiling will be very low. I don’t think any of us want to just scratch out 6-6 seasons to go to a more meaningless than ever bowl game.

2018 & 2024 were really fun but feel like one-offs driven by singular talents & soft schedules (if we’re being honest).

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I’m sorry it does feel hopeless. I liken us to one of those small market mlb teams that spends about 10% of what the Yankees, Dodgers etc do. We are essentially a seat filler and any occasional talent we get will just be poached at the next portal opening by one of the behemoths.

If we can’t figure out how to get funds at least somewhat in the neighborhood of the big boys are ceiling will be very low. I don’t think any of us want to just scratch out 6-6 seasons to go to a more meaningless than ever bowl game.

2018 & 2024 were really fun but feel like one-offs driven by singular talents & soft schedules (if we’re being honest).

We only play the big boys IF we make the playoffs. They are not our competition. The B1G/SEC are MLB. The ACC/B12 is AAA ball. We shouldn't worry about MLB. We need to be able to win our AAA games (ACC).

So winning a national title IS hopeless. But winning an ACC title is not (see Duke).

 

[IthacaMatt]

This year is do or die, if you ask me. Either Fran gets back to 8 or 9 wins, or we're done.