Is this our actual ceiling for the season?

[721Comstock]

He played well yesterday. His spirt at the end of the first half kept it from getting out of hand and kept the team in the game for the 2nd half comeback.

Like I’ve said all along, I think Kadary is talented and should be a 30mpg guy for us THIS year.

FIFY.

 

[Brooky03]

FIFY.

There hasn’t been a game yet this year where 30 minutes for Kadary would flip an L to a W. Pitt had him bottled up and wasn’t bothered much by his D. Both of those games would remain L’s. He had the minutes against Rutgers and that was an L. Like Pitt, UNC was indifferent to him being on the court.

like my profile signature has said for a while and like my first few posts of the season said, I like Kadary.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

There hasn’t been a game yet this year where 30 minutes for Kadary would flip an L to a W. Pitt had him bottled up and wasn’t bothered much by his D. Both of those games would remain L’s. He had the minutes against Rutgers and that was an L. Like Pitt, UNC was indifferent to him being on the court.

like my profile signature has said for a while and like my first few posts of the season said, I like Kadary.

There's just no way that first statement can be verified. Let me ponder that one a bit.

 

[Brooky03]

There's just no way that first statement can be verified. Let me ponder that one a bit.

True. We’re stating opinions. Opinions can’t always be verified.

There’s seems to be a feeling that if Kadary was handed 30 minutes per game as a true Freshman, flying in the face of everything JB has done for 40 years, we’d be top 25 and vying for ACC champ. I just don’t see that being the case. Would we have won some games by more points? Idk, maybe.

 

[Alsacs]

True. We’re stating opinions. Opinions can’t always be verified.

There’s seems to be a feeling that if Kadary was handed 30 minutes per game as a true Freshman, flying in the face of everything JB has done for 40 years, we’d be top 25 and vying for ACC champ. I just don’t see that being the case. Would we have won some games by more points? Idk, maybe.

Playing Kadary more would be putting our best guard on the floor most and giving him minutes to develop confidence for this year and next year while trying to win now.
Our HC doesn’t sub the SG. I don’t want JG playing 10’MpG.
Nor do I want Kadary locked in under 20 MPG.

Buddy plays like he is the best guard on the roster.
I honestly believe Joe does more than Buddy and should play the same amount of minutes but doesn’t happen.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

True. We’re stating opinions. Opinions can’t always be verified.

There’s seems to be a feeling that if Kadary was handed 30 minutes per game as a true Freshman, flying in the face of everything JB has done for 40 years, we’d be top 25 and vying for ACC champ. I just don’t see that being the case. Would we have won some games by more points? Idk, maybe.

I'm not one calling for Richmond to get 30 by default. He feels like a 25 minute guy to me right now, but the true problem is the time for the other guard. Joe plays much better when Richmond is in and handling the point. His d improves, and he gets better shots. Buddy should not be the only option at the 2. I thought AG was pretty dynamic on d from there when we got to see him a couple times early, and Joe seems more comfortable as a shooting guard as well.

JB only rotates guys out when they are visibly tired or screw up (or never if the player also lives in his house). That's just bad coaching. Sometimes you just need to take a kid out to let him catch his breath before he screws up and get a different perspective from the sideline. It doesn't always have to be a punishment.

 

[Brooky03]

I'm not one calling for Richmond to get 30 by default. He feels like a 25 minute guy to me right now, but the true problem is the time for the other guard. Joe plays much better when Richmond is in and handling the point. His d improves, and he gets better shots. Buddy should not be the only option at the 2. I thought AG was pretty dynamic on d from there when we got to see him a couple times early, and Joe seems more comfortable as a shooting guard as well.

JB only rotates guys out when they are visibly tired or screw up (or never if the player also lives in his house). That's just bad coaching. Sometimes you just need to take a kid out to let him catch his breath before he screws up and get a different perspective from the sideline. It doesn't always have to be a punishment.

I don’t like AG at the 2. He’s turnover prone as it is at the 3. Putting the ball in his hands more and asking him to dribble more is scary, imo. Buddy isn’t breaking any ankles but he doesn’t get his pocket picked very often. Defense is whatever. AG at the top of the zone is probably better than Buddy, but the top of the zone is not where the zone’s problems originate. I know others don’t necessarily agree but the zone is bad because the interior D is bad. The top of the zone with Joe and Buddy doesn’t do anything to cover that up, but fixing the top of the zone is like putting new tires on a Pinto. Yeah, it’ll handle a little better but it’s still a Pinto.

Joe does play better off the ball; we agree there.

As for the rotations, I’d prefer to see more work done at Center, including moving Guerrier there and getting more athletic across the front court (AG, Guerrier, Bras or Woody). What Guerrier gives up in height to Marek, he makes up for with muscle and athleticism. I also think the lineup with Kadary, Joe, and Buddy on the court together has been better than it’s gotten credit for.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don’t like AG at the 2. He’s turnover prone as it is at the 3. Putting the ball in his hands more and asking him to dribble more is scary, imo. Buddy isn’t breaking any ankles but he doesn’t get his pocket picked very often. Defense is whatever. AG at the top of the zone is probably better than Buddy, but the top of the zone is not where the zone’s problems originate. I know others don’t necessarily agree but the zone is bad because the interior D is bad. The top of the zone with Joe and Buddy doesn’t do anything to cover that up, but fixing the top of the zone is like putting new tires on a Pinto. Yeah, it’ll handle a little better but it’s still a Pinto.

Joe does play better off the ball; we agree there.

As for the rotations, I’d prefer to see more work done at Center, including moving Guerrier there and getting more athletic across the front court (AG, Guerrier, Bras or Woody). What Guerrier gives up in height to Marek, he makes up for with muscle and athleticism. I also think the lineup with Kadary, Joe, and Buddy on the court together has been better than it’s gotten credit for.

We'd have a lot better interior play if the guards would make it the least bit difficult to make the entry pass to the foul line. That's where bigger, quicker guards at the top would help. We saw what Richmond can do when he's in protect mode a couple games ago. Feels like he gave up a couple easy ones last night, but at least he's capable there.

The other real problem with the zone this year that really hasn't been addressed satisfactorily is that the wings are expected to help our two slow-footed starters at guard, then immediately sprint back to help Marek inside. It's too difficult. KR and AG at the top of the zone alleviates much of that as well.

I think your idea with Quincy is definitely worth a try.

 

[Alsacs]

I don’t like AG at the 2. He’s turnover prone as it is at the 3. Putting the ball in his hands more and asking him to dribble more is scary, imo. Buddy isn’t breaking any ankles but he doesn’t get his pocket picked very often. Defense is whatever. AG at the top of the zone is probably better than Buddy, but the top of the zone is not where the zone’s problems originate. I know others don’t necessarily agree but the zone is bad because the interior D is bad. The top of the zone with Joe and Buddy doesn’t do anything to cover that up, but fixing the top of the zone is like putting new tires on a Pinto. Yeah, it’ll handle a little better but it’s still a Pinto.

Joe does play better off the ball; we agree there.

As for the rotations, I’d prefer to see more work done at Center, including moving Guerrier there and getting more athletic across the front court (AG, Guerrier, Bras or Woody). What Guerrier gives up in height to Marek, he makes up for with muscle and athleticism. I also think the lineup with Kadary, Joe, and Buddy on the court together has been better than it’s gotten credit for.

What is the difference between Buddy and AG?

Game wise?
I don’t think either has handle.
Both can shoot.
Both shoot a lot.
Defense isn’t special for either but Griffin can block shots. Buddy can get some steals.

What is the difference between the two?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

What is the difference between Buddy and AG?

Game wise?
I don’t think either has handle.
Both can shoot.
Both shoot a lot.
Defense isn’t special for either but Griffin can block shots. Buddy can get some steals.

What is the difference between the two?

For me it's foot speed. Griff gets as many steals as Buddy does. It would be more with him up top.

 

[Alsacs]

For me it's foot speed. Griff gets as many steals as Buddy does. It would be more with him up top.

I’ll my own question as well.
I don’t think there is much different between the two.
I think Buddy doesn’t commit as many careless mistakes as AG but I think AG is a better shooter.

My point is one plays the whole game the other gets pulled when he plays poorly.
It’s clear as day.
Girard should be playing 10 MPG every game with Kadary in the backcourt.

We don’t see it unless AG is playing so poorly he has to sit.

 

[OrangeDW]

He played well yesterday. His spirt at the end of the first half kept it from getting out of hand and kept the team in the game for the 2nd half comeback.

Like I’ve said all along, I think Kadary is talented and should be a 30mpg guy for us next year. This year, I’m happy with what he’s done off the bench and like him at around 20mpg. He’s this team’s Dion Waiters.

Before when you were saying that, you were trying to say their stats were basically the same and how the PER’s would even out, and that Kadary’s would drop in ACC play. Well, we’re 8 ACC games in, and they haven’t. He’s consistently been one of our best and most productive players, and the other two guards have largely struggled.

This makes little sense and the justifications are getting more bizarre by the day IMO.

And the thing is...the other two guards would both probably be more effective playing at the same time as Kadary, in larger amounts. Why we basically never see Kadary-Joe anymore...I really don’t get what he’s thinking.

Having only one guard playing well, and consistently playing him less than half the game is absolutely costing us games. We need to defend better, we need actual PG play, and we need our shooters freed up and spotting up and hitting shots. Those things would go a long way towards winning more games. IMo.

 

[Brooky03]

What is the difference between Buddy and AG?

Game wise?
I don’t think either has handle.
Both can shoot.
Both shoot a lot.
Defense isn’t special for either but Griffin can block shots. Buddy can get some steals.

What is the difference between the two?

There isn’t a ton of difference between the two. Buddy is more suited to play guard than AG because his ball security is significantly better. As a matter of opinion, I think he sees the floor better, too.

 

[Alsacs]

There isn’t a ton of difference between the two. Buddy is more suited to play guard than AG because his ball security is significantly better. As a matter of opinion, I think he sees the floor better, too.

So why does one sit when they play poorly and the other doesn’t?

 

[Brooky03]

We'd have a lot better interior play if the guards would make it the least bit difficult to make the entry pass to the foul line. That's where bigger, quicker guards at the top would help. We saw what Richmond can do when he's in protect mode a couple games ago. Feels like he gave up a couple easy ones last night, but at least he's capable there.

The other real problem with the zone this year that really hasn't been addressed satisfactorily is that the wings are expected to help our two slow-footed starters at guard, then immediately sprint back to help Marek inside. It's too difficult. KR and AG at the top of the zone alleviates much of that as well.

I think your idea with Quincy is definitely worth a try.

I think the wings have been asked to do a lot/too much. I think that starts with them being asked to help Marek so much. Do they struggle to defend the 3 because they know Marek needs help with anybody in the paint? Yes. Do they struggle to defend the paint because they have to scramble to defend the 3? Yes. It’s probably a chicken or egg proposition.

 

[Brooky03]

So why does one sit when they play poorly and the other doesn’t?

Because one playing poorly means turnovers. The other playing poorly means missed shots. Easier to forgive missed shots than turnovers.

And don’t mistake this for me saying Buddy is rock solid with the ball. He’s had some bad turnovers, too, it’s just not commonplace like it seems to be for AG.

 

[Alsacs]

Because one playing poorly means turnovers. The other playing poorly means missed shots. Easier to forgive missed shots than turnovers.

And don’t mistake this for me saying Buddy is rock solid with the ball. He’s had some bad turnovers, too, it’s just not commonplace like it seems to be for AG.

So then Kadary not being a greater shooter should have zero impact on his playing time.

If missing shots is excusable.
Kadary should play the most minutes from any guard.
He is an actual PG who can gets shots for everyone else.
His shooting should be forgiven even though it’s good enough.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Because one playing poorly means turnovers. The other playing poorly means missed shots. Easier to forgive missed shots than turnovers.

And don’t mistake this for me saying Buddy is rock solid with the ball. He’s had some bad turnovers, too, it’s just not commonplace like it seems to be for AG.

Man, I hear what you are saying and just don't see it. Buddy is by far the most likely player to stop an offensive set with him receiving a pass, then slowly looking around the court for a pass, then maybe taking a dribble or two, then stopping again, and finally giving the ball back to Joe. He'd be so more well served making a good quick decision, moving the ball, or attacking immediately. He allows the defense to reset nearly every time he isn't shooting.

But, after looking at the stats, you're right, AG's TOs per game are much higher.

 

[Brooky03]

Before when you were saying that, you were trying to say their stats were basically the same and how the PER’s would even out, and that Kadary’s would drop in ACC play. Well, we’re 8 ACC games in, and they haven’t. He’s consistently been one of our best and most productive players, and the other two guards have largely struggled.

This makes little sense and the justifications are getting more bizarre by the day IMO.

And the thing is...the other two guards would both probably be more effective playing at the same time as Kadary, in larger amounts. Why we basically never see Kadary-Joe anymore...I really don’t get what he’s thinking.

Having only one guard playing well, and consistently playing him less than half the game is absolutely costing us games. We need to defend better, we need actual PG play, and we need our shooters freed up and spotting up and hitting shots. Those things would go a long way towards winning more games. IMo.

I said the PERs might even out. My mid major comments also noted the ACC teams he’s performed well against were bottom half teams that Joe and Buddy also played well against. Joe didn’t shoot well vs NCSt. but was getting assists and taking care of the ball. We dug our hole with Joe and Buddy. But we also climbed out of the hole with Joe and Buddy.

I’m happy Kadary’s PER has been good and remained good. I don’t think PER is an argument for him starting. One common criticism of PER is how it boils down numbers to a per minute basis, which sounds good in theory but historically has skewed the metric a little bit in the favor of guys who play fewer minutes. PER tends to drop as minutes go up (within a season, not across seasons, which is when other factors come in).

There isn’t really a statistical argument that Kadary playing more would flip any of those L’s to W’s. I think it’s bizarre to imply there is. It’s a subjective argument.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I prefer Griffin on the back line for the main reason that he's ours best shot blocker.
He also has a negative Asst/TO ration and I did not realize that until I checked the stats this morning. He’s a really talented player that seems to have some issues with overall awareness on both sides of the ball.

 

[Brooky03]

So then Kadary not being a greater shooter should have zero impact on his playing time.

If missing shots is excusable.
Kadary should play the most minutes from any guard.
He is an actual PG who can gets shots for everyone else.
His shooting should be forgiven even though it’s good enough.

I don’t think Kadary’s shooting is limiting his playing time much.

Statistically, there’s no difference in shot creation between Joe and Kadary. However, yes, Kadary does appear to create more shots based on the eye test. There’s a disconnect there. Maybe Kadary has a lot more ‘hockey assists.’ I’m not totally sure. We all know against mid tier guards, at least, he can get into the paint better than our other guards. I like him in the role of coming off the bench and switching the mode our offense is in.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

30+ mins a game for JG, BB and MD??? For some reason I'm not as pumped about the how this is going to play out. We won this game but it really feels like a big picture loss... Just saying..

The roof

 

[Brooky03]

Can somebody ask Temery what it would take to be able to post emojis from the iPhone keyboard here? How else am I supposed to communicate that $JGIII and $Buddy are on a rocket ship to the moon?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I said the PERs might even out. My mid major comments also noted the ACC teams he’s performed well against were bottom half teams that Joe and Buddy also played well against. Joe didn’t shoot well vs NCSt. but was getting assists and taking care of the ball. We dug our hole with Joe and Buddy. But we also climbed out of the hole with Joe and Buddy.

I’m happy Kadary’s PER has been good and remained good. I don’t think PER is an argument for him starting. One common criticism of PER is how it boils down numbers to a per minute basis, which sounds good in theory but historically has skewed the metric a little bit in the favor of guys who play fewer minutes. PER tends to drop as minutes go up (within a season, not across seasons, which is when other factors come in).

There isn’t really a statistical argument that Kadary playing more would flip any of those L’s to W’s. I think it’s bizarre to imply there is. It’s a subjective argument.

My subjective argument is that when Kadary is in the game, the guards on the other team have a really hard time attacking the zone, and it would benefit us to put that stress on them right at tipoff.

To your point about if it flips a game, of course we can't know, and I don't think we win, but I believe we would have played Virginia tighter if Kadary had been patrolling up top and not allowed Clark to slice us up right from the start.

 

[Brooky03]

My subjective argument is that when Kadary is in the game, the guards on the other team have a really hard time attacking the zone, and it would benefit us to put that stress on them right at tipoff.

To your point about if it flips a game, of course we can't know, and I don't think we win, but I believe we would have played Virginia tighter if Kadary had been patrolling up top and not allowed Clark to slice us up right from the start.

My recollection of the Virginia game is that they were unbothered by Kadary’s D. They still got open looks from 3 and seemed to continue to get the ball to the high post at will. Against other teams, Kadary’s defense has been noticeably better than the white guys, but against UVA I didn’t see the defense improve at all with him out there. Defensive lapses happen, so one play isn’t indicative of much, but I do remember one specific occasion when he was overly aggressive defending a penetrating guard and allowed for an easy kick out to a wide open shooter. Which of course is not to say Joe and Buddy don’t have similar screw ups.