ISh at Clemson

[upperdeck]

anyone who was there that could tell why he struggled to find any room to get open? press coverage too tight or the FR DB was too quick?

I dont think we had more than 4-5 passes to anyone with real windows to throw into

 

[Nahson]

For those that think Ish is the answer...

The Clemson defense is tremendous but he has been exposed a little bit.

 

[sutomcat]

anyone who was there that could tell why he struggled to find any room to get open? press coverage too tight or the FR DB was too quick?

I dont think we had more than 4-5 passes to anyone with real windows to throw into

Clemson blitzed a lot, and consequently often used press coverage. Against that coverage, Ishmael struggled to get free. That frosh CB was only 5'10, but even though he is only 190 pounds, he was a lot stronger than Steve and physically dominated him. Impressive player who is going to be a very good player for them.

Even West had a very hard time getting any daylight between him and his defender. From what I see, Ashton is our only WR who is big enough, strong enough and fast enough to consistently get open against tough man coverage. It has been this way since the start of last season and remains a huge issue when we play against teams with top cornerbacks who press our WRs.

 

[Chip]

For those that think Ish is the answer...

The Clemson defense is tremendous but he has been exposed a little bit.

It's refreshing to finally have another name attached to these same exact words that were posted about AJ Long about 7,000 times Saturday night.

This is the worst freshman class we've had in years, not a one of them can succeed in Death Valley their first year, so why are we recruiting them?

 

[RF2044]

Clemson blitzed a lot, and consequently often used press coverage. Against that coverage, Ishmael struggled to get free. That frosh CB was only 5'10, but even though he is only 190 pounds, he was a lot stronger than Steve and physically dominated him. Impressive player who is going to be a very good player for them.

Even West had a very hard time getting any daylight between him and his defender. From what I see, Ashton is our only WR who is big enough, strong enough and fast enough to consistently get open against tough man coverage. It has been this way since the start of last season and remains a huge issue when we play against teams with top cornerbacks who press our WRs.

I'll add that with their pass rush, we didn't have time to let plays develop downfield often. In the several instances where Long did have time, they still eventually got to him.

Would have preferred to see more emphasis on shorter passing game, underneath throws etc. into the area vacated by blitz. Long made that correct read a couple of times, only to have the ball batted down.

 

[OrangeFoo]

From watching on TV, Ish had ZERO separation from the corner who was playing man on man. The tv guys at one point said that the corner covering Ish was a big time top 5 recruit coming out of highschool.

I think that was the most depressing part about watching the game on TV... Clemson rarely had to blitz to get pressure and they played man the whole time with maybe one safety deep. They didn't have to do anything out of the ordinary to completely shut down our offense.

 

[PhatOrange]

I think that CB was a redshirt freshman. One of the top corner recruits in the nation last year; Immokalee FL kid, offers from everybody.

 

[Orangello]

Also don;t understand why we went away from the short crossing, timing routes. We seemed to have success in the first half especially, Ashton out of the slot.

I still think Ish could have caught that one in the end zone if he had timed his jump better and leaned forward over the CB who had a good 3-4 inches on.

 

[RF2044]

Also don;t understand why we went away from the short crossing, timing routes. We seemed to have success in the first half especially, Ashton out of the slot.

I still think Ish could have caught that one in the end zone if he had timed his jump better and leaned forward over the CB who had a good 3-4 inches on.

It was actually a great throw and a nicely run route--it was just defended superbly. Otherwise, its 6.

 

[CanadianSU]

For those that think Ish is the answer...

The Clemson defense is tremendous but he has been exposed a little bit.

Nonsense

 

[dollarbill44]

For those that think Ish is the answer...

The Clemson defense is tremendous but he has been exposed a little bit.

Exposed as being an 18 year old true freshman who hasn't yet learned how to beat press coverage. That's about it.

Too many people expect 1st and 2nd year college players to come in as NFL pro-bowlers, otherwise, "they are not the answer". My comment is not directed only at you, Nahson - it is meant for all those threads about Hunt, Long, Wilson, etc. Very, very few players have ever done anything of note in their 1st year at SU, let alone as true freshmen .

 

[007]

I think that CB was a redshirt freshman. One of the top corner recruits in the nation last year; Immokalee FL kid, offers from everybody.

Mackensie Alexander. Considered the highest ranked HS recruit for Clemson since 2008. Would have started last year as true Freshman (injured). Kid is a player.

http://www.clemsontigers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=28500&ATCLID=206289195

 

[RF2044]

Exposed as being an 18 year old true freshman who hasn't yet learned how to beat press coverage. That's about it.

Too many people expect 1st and 2nd year college players to come in as NFL pro-bowlers, otherwise, "they are not the answer". My comment is not directed only at you, Nahson - it is meant for all those threads about Hunt, Long, Wilson, etc. Very, very few players have ever done anything of note in their 1st year at SU, let alone as true freshmen .

Very good post.

 

[cuseguy]

Long, for example, may turn out to be a decent QB. But you can usually tell right away whether someone has star potential. I knew right away with McNabb. The first time I saw Darius I sensed he was something special. There have been others. I'm not giving up on Long - there's a lot to like and Clemson is an awfully tough place to play - but he's small, has an ordinary arm and is an average runner.

May the best man win.

 

[dollarbill44]

Long, for example, may turn out to be a decent QB. But you can usually tell right away whether someone has star potential. I knew right away with McNabb. The first time I saw Darius I sensed he was something special. There have been others. I'm not giving up on Long - there's a lot to like and Clemson is an awfully tough place to play - but he's small, has an ordinary arm and is an average runner.

May the best man win.

You knew about McNabb right away? Do you mean his first start as a RS Freshman or during his RS year when he was a scout QB? Btw, he was an all-time great QB at SU. What percentage of college RS Frosh QBs would you say compare favorably to him? Not too many, I would say. Same as with Darius. What about Hogue? Bulluck? Tebucky Jones? Did you see stardom for those guys right away?

 

[Cuse'91]

You knew about McNabb right away? Do you mean his first start as a RS Freshman or during his RS year when he was a scout QB? Btw, he was an all-time great QB at SU. What percentage of college RS Frosh QBs would you say compare favorably to him? Not too many, I would say. Same as with Darius. What about Hogue? Bulluck? Tebucky Jones? Did you see stardom for those guys right away?

Hard to say I remember my initial feelings on them, but...
All of them had one commonality; they passed the NFL "look test" from the first day they stepped foot on campus...

 

[cuseguy]

You knew about McNabb right away? Do you mean his first start as a RS Freshman or during his RS year when he was a scout QB? Btw, he was an all-time great QB at SU. What percentage of college RS Frosh QBs would you say compare favorably to him? Not too many, I would say. Same as with Darius. What about Hogue? Bulluck? Tebucky Jones? Did you see stardom for those guys right away?

I saw Tebucky play several times in high school and knew he would be a great player.

McNabb stood out to me in the spring game going into RS freshman year.

Darius made a huge impression on me the summer of his freshman year at the OrangeFest outing.

Some guys just have the "it" factor.

But that's not saying Long can't be a productive QB.

 

[dollarbill44]

I saw Tebucky play several times in high school and knew he would be a great player.

McNabb stood out to me in the spring game going into RS freshman year.

Darius made a huge impression on me the summer of his freshman year at the OrangeFest outing.

Some guys just have the "it" factor.

But that's not saying Long can't be a productive QB.

I can't believe you saw Tebucky in HS and thought would be a great safety. After all, it took the SU coaches 2 years to move him there.

 

[anomander]

Exposed as being an 18 year old true freshman who hasn't yet learned how to beat press coverage. That's about it.

Too many people expect 1st and 2nd year college players to come in as NFL pro-bowlers, otherwise, "they are not the answer". My comment is not directed only at you, Nahson - it is meant for all those threads about Hunt, Long, Wilson, etc. Very, very few players have ever done anything of note in their 1st year at SU, let alone as true freshmen .

I'm sick of the 18 year old true Freshman excuse. There are true Freshman that play and produce all over the country. If our guys aren't ready to compete as a true Freshman then they should have redshirted.

With that said I don't think that was the case with Ishmael. How many times did AJ actually have time to drop back go through his progressions and make a throw? Not many. Ishmael was probably over matched, but he was up against one of the top kids in the class of 2014. Ishmael will be the majority of the people he will go up against as a true Freshman. I just don't think the excuse of being an 18 year old true Freshman flies.

 

[Nahson]

Exposed as being an 18 year old true freshman who hasn't yet learned how to beat press coverage. That's about it.

Too many people expect 1st and 2nd year college players to come in as NFL pro-bowlers, otherwise, "they are not the answer". My comment is not directed only at you, Nahson - it is meant for all those threads about Hunt, Long, Wilson, etc. Very, very few players have ever done anything of note in their 1st year at SU, let alone as true freshmen .

I was being facetious, I just took the exact words another poster said about Aj Long and inserted Ish's name. I think the whole conversation is ridiculous. I think to ask the question of "what happened to (insert freshman name here) against Clemson?" Is ridiculous. (Though I do understand this is a forum and these things should/will be asked/discussed.) Aj is in his SECOND game as a starter, against a defense that was very tough, in a hostile environment. I think if Clemson's defense was mediocre, it still would have been a tough test because of how crazy of a place it is to play, especially for a freshman. Upper class men tweeted how it was the "livest" place they have played in. So to pass any real judgement on Aj or Ish or any true freshman is just unfair and quiet frankly I don't think Hunt does any better if he had played.


Edit: Next time I'll try to make my sarcasm a little more blatant. I suppose it got lost with all the posters who have been echoing this sentiment seriously.

 

[cuseguy]

I can't believe you saw Tebucky in HS and thought would be a great safety. After all, it took the SU coaches 2 years to move him there.

I knew he'd be a great player at some position.

I was ready to move him to safety well before the SU coaches did.

Philips isn't cut out to be a kickoff returner. Maybe he's all we have, but let's see how long before they figure that out.

Desir isn't a punt returner, but we keep sending him out there.

 

[Nahson]

I knew he'd be a great player at some position.

I was ready to move him to safety well before the SU coaches did.

Philips isn't cut out to be a kickoff returner. Maybe he's all we have, but let's see how long before they figure that out.

Desir isn't a punt returner, but we keep sending him out there.

I agree about Phillips. He just seems to come up short on kick returns which is strange because you would think with his athleticism and speed he'd be a home run back there or at least consistently getting back to the 20.

 

[Pat Kelly]

anyone who was there that could tell why he struggled to find any room to get open? press coverage too tight or the FR DB was too quick?

I dont think we had more than 4-5 passes to anyone with real windows to throw into

Broyld and West were the only two really

 

[Chip]

Long, for example, may turn out to be a decent QB. But you can usually tell right away whether someone has star potential. I knew right away with McNabb. The first time I saw Darius I sensed he was something special. There have been others. I'm not giving up on Long - there's a lot to like and Clemson is an awfully tough place to play - but he's small, has an ordinary arm and is an average runner.

May the best man win.

I think we were spoiled by Graves and McNabb. They were both really good, and it was evident early on. One difference with them is that they were each redshirt freshmen, so they had that full year to soak things in. We have to remember that Long does not have that benefit (a Spring sure, which is better than nothing).

I do share some of the worry about his speed. I thought he looked fast against FSU, but really didn't against Clemson.

I just don't know if we'll ever have a QB as 4 year productive as Graves and McNabb were. Every other QB has been a development QB, and each had a better senior year than previous years (Nunes, RJ, Nassib, even Perry). My kingdom for one who is at least looking very good as a junior, if not sophomore, so we can enjoy more than one year of the better times.

 

[alphaorange]

It could be argued that Clemson possesses the best defense in the country. Considering that they are in that discussion means that you can take very little away from the lack offensive production. With the same pressure on the QB and the closing speed of the defense, I'm not so sure that Nassib's offense would have been better...even with his skilled players with him.