It is impressive how improved this team is

[Halfmooncuse]

Not yet but at least it is within the realm of possibilities. No matter how you look at it, the team is playing better than earlier in the year and is probably beating the expectations of most.

Hey I wanna believe

 

[orangecuse]

I said “playing like a tournament team,” not predicting we are in. Ultimately, the pre-conference o-fer plus the home losses to VT and ND will probably sink us.

What is "playing like a tournament team?" If we lose that game last Saturday to UVA (a team that looks to be a bubble team) in regulation, where UVA had the shot to win in regulation prior to us going off in the OT, would you still share that sentiment? Or, if we lost in similar fashion yesterday to VT at the end where it was there for the taking as well? We smoked BC at home, but BC is, well BC. None of the teams we've beaten in this stretch are sure thing tournament teams.

 

[dasher]

What is "playing like a tournament team?" If we lose that game last Saturday to UVA (a team that looks to be a bubble team) in regulation, where UVA had the shot to win in regulation prior to us going off in the OT, would you still share that sentiment? Or, if we lost in similar fashion yesterday to VT at the end where it was there for the taking as well? We smoked BC at home, but BC is, well BC. None of the teams we've beaten in this stretch are sure thing tournament teams.

The what if game. They didn't make those shots. Maybe our defense had something to do with it. We have won three road league games. Not easy to do in any league.

 

[pfister1]

What is "playing like a tournament team?" If we lose that game last Saturday to UVA (a team that looks to be a bubble team) in regulation, where UVA had the shot to win in regulation prior to us going off in the OT, would you still share that sentiment? Or, if we lost in similar fashion yesterday to VT at the end where it was there for the taking as well? We smoked BC at home, but BC is, well BC. None of the teams we've beaten in this stretch are sure thing tournament teams.

Not worth doing this because you can just as easily look at the ND and VT games at home and say, "what if". Reality is you are what your record says you are. We beat UVA and VT in skin of the teeth fashion, and we lost to ND and VT at home in skin of the teeth fashion, but the wins are wins and the losses will remain losses. We should take the wins for what they are, enjoy them and try not to worry too much about what they mean for the next game.

 

[orangecuse]

The what if game. They didn't make those shots. Maybe our defense had something to do with it. We have won three road league games. Not easy to do in any league.

Well, it's a message board for discussion, that's why I asked if a different scenario played out if his sentiment would be the same. Due to the closeness of two of those games the "if" game wasn't really out of the realm of probability (not to mention against teams that are not clear cut tourney type) so I was simply curious, that's all.

However, your response is interesting, though I guess not all that surprising when you do actually respond to one of my posts. Who said anything about winning 3 road league games? Not to mention, one of those had nothing to do with being on point relative to this discussion/3 game stretch as the BC game was at home, but you knew that. Furthermore, where was anything implied that winning games on the road (in any league) was easy? Again, I was just curious of RF's thinking, that's all.

Staying on point, do you think any of the 3 teams we beat in this stretch are sure thing tournament teams?

 

[orangecuse]

Not worth doing this because you can just as easily look at the ND and VT games at home and say, "what if". Reality is you are what your record says you are. We beat UVA and VT in skin of the teeth fashion, and we lost to ND and VT at home in skin of the teeth fashion, but the wins are wins and the losses will remain losses. We should take them for what they are, enjoy them and try not to worry too much about what they mean for the next game.

I agree. However, that wasn't the crux of my post/question. It more had to do with asking in this stretch of 3 wins, against 3 teams that are probable bubble teams (though that may even be a stretch for BC), what is it that makes us playing "like a tournament team" in his opinion.

 

[RF2044]

What is "playing like a tournament team?" If we lose that game last Saturday to UVA (a team that looks to be a bubble team) in regulation, where UVA had the shot to win in regulation prior to us going off in the OT, would you still share that sentiment? Or, if we lost in similar fashion yesterday to VT at the end where it was there for the taking as well? We smoked BC at home, but BC is, well BC. None of the teams we've beaten in this stretch are sure thing tournament teams.

Winning on the road against a team that beat us at home two weeks ago = "playing like a tournament team."

Finding the hot player and feeding him the ball when they're in the zone = "playing like a tournament team."

Matching them shot for shot at the end, when they had all the momentum and a raucous crowd = "playing like a tournament team."

None of which was really the point of my OP -- which compared how we were playing earlier in the year to the much improved way we are playing now. The opponent is irrelevant -- and this team has shown that they can be a good road team.

Again, referencing my OP, if we'd somehow managed to pull out those two winnable games against ND and VT at home, we'd be in first place in the conference standings, and safely in the field. Which is amazing, given the poor start this team got off to. But we didn't, so now we have a lot of ground to make up.

OF COURSE if we'd lost yesterday, I'd be disappointed. Or any of those other hypotheticals you bring up that didn't actually happen. But even with said disappointment, I would still recognize that this team is playing better than it was early on, and that what once looked like it was trending toward JB's first losing season now seems to have a much higher ceiling.

 

[RF2044]

It's crazy to think that this team is actually just a few good posessions away from being 6-1 in conference right now. I'll admit that I was spending some time on the "We Suck" train earlier in the season, but my hope is slowly coming back

It really is -- and given the entropy in the top 25, at 13-5 I think we'd probably be ranked.

Woulda-shoulda-coulda.

 

[dasher]

Well, it's a message board for discussion, that's why I asked if a different scenario played out if his sentiment would be the same. Due to the closeness of two of those games the "if" game wasn't really out of the realm of probability (not to mention against teams that are not clear cut tourney type) so I was simply curious, that's all.

However, your response is interesting, though I guess not all that surprising when you do actually respond to one of my posts. Who said anything about winning 3 road league games? Not to mention, one of those had nothing to do with being on point relative to this discussion/3 game stretch as the BC game was at home, but you knew that. Furthermore, where was anything implied that winning games on the road (in any league) was easy? Again, I was just curious of RF's thinking, that's all.

Staying on point, do you think any of the 3 teams we beat in this stretch are sure thing tournament teams?

How is that staying on pt if you argue I was off pt by saying that we are 3-0 on the road? But I will answer anyway. Yes. UVA is a sure fire pick. While they are no powerhouse, the league schedule will put them in. Va tech isn't a sure fire pick but I think they will get in.

 

[Consigliere]

I would feel more comfortable if we could get a more competent center on the team. I appreciate the comeback Sidibe has made from his knee problems and this is not meant to be a knock-Sidibe post but he is still a below average D1 center. Can you imagine how this year's team would be with even a slight scoring threat inside?

We have had a number of very successful teams including a National Champion that had very little scoring from our center. We need the 5 to rebound and play defense. Sidibe's rebounding numbers would be near the top of the conference if he could stay on the court. But between foul trouble and breakdowns in zone responsibilities he is playing about half a game in league play. Unlike most of this forum I think that he has the tools to be a more than serviceable big man for us.

 

[orangecuse]

Winning on the road against a team that beat us at home two weeks ago = "playing like a tournament team."

Finding the hot player and feeding him the ball when they're in the zone = "playing like a tournament team."

Matching them shot for shot at the end, when they had all the momentum and a raucous crowd = "playing like a tournament team."

None of which was really the point of my OP -- which compared how we were playing earlier in the year to who we are playing now. The opponent is irrelevant -- and this team has shown that they can be a good road team.

Again, referencing my OP, if we'd somehow managed to pull out those two winnable games against ND and VT at home, we'd be in first place in the conference standings, and safely in the field. Which is amazing, given the poor start this team got off to. But we didn't, so now we have a lot of ground to make up.

OF COURSE if we'd lost yesterday, I'd be disappointed. Or any of those other hypotheticals you bring up that didn't actually happen. But even with said disappointment, I would still recognize that this team is playing better than it was early on, and that what once looked like it was trending toward JB's first losing season now seems to have a much higher ceiling.

Fair enough. I respect your point of view, and appreciate the diplomatic response.

 

[Consigliere]

Perhaps instead of crazy, it's more of a reflection of the league being considerably down this year.

That's the thing. Tournament worthiness is a relative concept, not an absolute. And it's not just the ACC that is "down" this year. Look at the other P5 conferences and you see the same relative parity that you see in the ACC beyond a standout team or three at the top.

I know "last 12 games" is not a criteria the committee looks at anymore, but OOC record discussions certainly will focus on how those losses were early in the season and the team looks markedly different now. Long row to hoe, but we can see a path to the dance that wasn't apparent 8 days ago.

 

[Mareiniss]

Lot of positives but almost blowing it to VT again is cause for concern. But I don’t think any of the 3 top ACC teams are automatic losses. And we are pretty even with everyone else. So hopefully this keeps up. Washington and Guerrier look like serviceable 6/7 guys. Loved Howard going for all those steals. Hated the threes down the stretch each jacked and missed badly.

It does seem to be a pattern this year where the other team makes a run in the second half. I suspect one big reason for that is because our 40 mpg guys (EH, MD and BB) are tiring and coasting at times in the second half, and because tired legs lead to poorer shooting. Virginia Tech had only one guy who played more than 32 minutes (Nolley, at 39 minutes - and he missed the last shot badly). If HW and QG could give us more quality minutes in future games, that would help a lot.

 

[orangecuse]

How is that staying on pt if you argue I was off pt by saying that we are 3-0 on the road? But I will answer anyway. Yes. UVA is a sure fire pick. While they are no powerhouse, the league schedule will put them in. Va tech isn't a sure fire pick but I think they will get in.

You brought up 3 road wins in a conversation that had nothing to do with this 3 game stretch being discussed, that's why. We played GT on the road in December, before Christmas. This 3 game winning streak, the subject of "playing like a tournament team" has nothing to do with that December win on the road. Not to mention, against a GT team that is unlikely of being in the Dance. These three wins have been against 3 probable bubble teams (if you can even call BC a bubble team, which was played in the Dome) so, again, I was simply inquiring as to why RF felt that sentiment of we are now "playing like a tournament team."

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

That non conference schedule was so pathetic and lame what absolutely disgusting teams we played with everything to lose nothing to gain. I bet we could have pulled an upset on a real team like we did at Ohio St the year before when the team was fully jacked up.

We’re Syracuse why the hell would we settle for Ok St and Ole Miss/Pedo at Barclays. No one and I mean no one other than Georgetown fans and alums wants to play them we never play well vs them or UConn. Iowa are a vet team so the home court didn’t matter.

Play some cool programs home and home and try and get them in a down year if we are rebuilding a school like UCLA would have been perfect. I’m so sick of the OOC boring garbage we’re fed.

 

[orangecuse]

That's the thing. Tournament worthiness is a relative concept, not an absolute. And it's not just the ACC that is "down" this year. Look at the other P5 conferences and you see the same relative parity that you see in the ACC beyond a standout team or three at the top.

I know "last 12 games" is not a criteria the committee looks at anymore, but OOC record discussions certainly will focus on how those losses were early in the season and the team looks markedly different now. Long row to hoe, but we can see a path to the dance that wasn't apparent 8 days ago.

In regards to your 1st paragraph, I realize this and why I stated along the lines of not being abreast of those other particulars of the other teams we are competing with to get in.

On your second paragraph, why wasn't it apparent 8 days ago? Now, I'll concede to beating UVA at their place was somewhat unexpected, especially since they've had their way with us for the most part since we've been in the ACC. That being said, they are a probable bubble team as it stands today, so, although it was an unlikely W, it wasn't improbable. Additionally, most of us I think would agree that the W against BC was probable, we were a 12 point favorite in that game. The VT game I think most would agree that we felt our chances were about 50/50, especially since it could be argued that we should've beat them in the Dome just a week and half earlier.

All of these aforementioned teams are probable bubble teams. So, I don't know how much more apparent it's today than 8 days ago, as it's not as if we just made it through a murderous row (for lack of a better word) with these 3 W's.

 

[Ajflood12]

We have had a number of very successful teams including a National Champion that had very little scoring from our center. We need the 5 to rebound and play defense. Sidibe's rebounding numbers would be near the top of the conference if he could stay on the court. But between foul trouble and breakdowns in zone responsibilities he is playing about half a game in league play. Unlike most of this forum I think that he has the tools to be a more than serviceable big man for us.

I just wish he would stop bringing his arms and hands over the defender and the guy going up through them for the foul. It happens 4 times a game for almost 20 games now. Then he complains. Does he watch the tape to see what he is doing? He has no awareness and positioning.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Virginia and Virginia Tech are quadrant one wins. That’s all that matters at this point. Keep piling them up and I believe we can beat anyone in the conference having seen everyone play.

 

[Consigliere]

In regards to your 1st paragraph, I realize this and why I stated along the lines of not being abreast of those other particulars of the other teams we are competing with to get in.

On your second paragraph, why wasn't it apparent 8 days ago? Now, I'll concede to beating UVA at their place was somewhat unexpected, especially since they've had their way with us for the most part since we've been in the ACC. That being said, they are a probable bubble team as it stands today, so, although it was an unlikely W, it wasn't improbable. Additionally, most of us I think would agree that the W against BC was probable, we were a 12 point favorite in that game. The VT game I think most would agree that we felt our chances were about 50/50, especially since it could be argued that we should've beat them in the Dome just a week and half earlier.

All of these aforementioned teams are probable bubble teams. So, I don't know how much more apparent it's today than 8 days ago, as it's not as if we just made it through a murderous row (for lack of a better word) with these 3 W's.

Despite their flaws on offense, 8 days ago even the most optimistic of us had little hope of beating UVa in Charlottesville. We were staring at an 8-8 record and a good portion of this forum had written off the streak of winning seasons and felt it would be a minor miracle to salvage an NIT bid. After beating Virginia talk started about 5 winnable games in a row, we checked off the first two boxes and this morning we're talking about at the very least playing our way onto the bubble.

In the last three games, we've significantly cut back on the defensive lapses, Buddy has shown the ability to drive and finish in the paint, and Quincy and Howard have turned in some fairly solid performances off the bench. Team is clearly getting better and they are finally starting to show evidence of that on the court.

 

[TinyManInside]

The team is definitely improving, that's for sure. The ball movement, player movement, and shot quality are dramatically improved from the beginning of the year. The defense is even looking better. That said, it's hard to completely deconvolve the player/team improvement from the quality of opponents. This year's ACC is not very good, at all. But that said, just keep winning and it won't matter how bad the league is...

 

[orangecuse]

Despite their flaws on offense, 8 days ago even the most optimistic of us had little hope of beating UVa in Charlottesville. We were staring at an 8-8 record and a good portion of this forum had written off the streak of winning seasons and felt it would be a minor miracle to salvage an NIT bid. After beating Virginia talk started about 5 winnable games in a row, we checked off the first two boxes and this morning we're talking about at the very least playing our way onto the bubble.

In the last three games, we've significantly cut back on the defensive lapses, Buddy has shown the ability to drive and finish in the paint, and Quincy and Howard have turned in some fairly solid performances off the bench. Team is clearly getting better and they are finally starting to show evidence of that on the court.

It was my interpretation that the sentiment of "little hope" and "minor miracle" you allude to in your 1st paragraph that a good portion felt had more to do with our defensive woes than offensive flaws? Regardless, I'm not sure how much we have 'cut back' on those lapses mentioned since both UVA & BC appear that they can't hit open looks to save their lives, and VT doesn't have an inside threat whatsoever to balance their 3 point shooting prowess. So, I'm just going to sit back and watch the remaining games without reservation and see how the remaining games play out, and afterwards assess from there.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Still convinced that it’s time to make a change for the future of the program and have clarity for the next 10-20 years with a younger head coach. JB has had a great run it’s time to do the right thing and hand the reigns over, we missed the chance with Hop. Imagine this same cast of players with Stewart and another stud, we would be a final four team. Again a great ride. For the record I feel similar about coach K with the exception that Duke is higher profile and can recruit at a different level despite having a old coach.

 

[dasher]

Still convinced that it’s time to make a change for the future of the program and have clarity for the next 10-20 years with a younger head coach. JB has had a great run it’s time to do the right thing and hand the reigns over, we missed the chance with Hop. Imagine this same cast of players with Stewart and another stud, we would be a final four team. Again a great ride. For the record I feel similar about coach K with the exception that Duke is higher profile and can recruit at a different level despite having a old coach.

There is zero guarantee that Stewart would have come here of Hop was the coach here. Maybe. Maybe not. He was clear he wanted to get away from home.

 

[sugrad68]

We have had a number of very successful teams including a National Champion that had very little scoring from our center. We need the 5 to rebound and play defense. Sidibe's rebounding numbers would be near the top of the conference if he could stay on the court. But between foul trouble and breakdowns in zone responsibilities he is playing about half a game in league play. Unlike most of this forum I think that he has the tools to be a more than serviceable big man for us.

I have to disagree. Yes, the center position, except for Derrick Coleman and RAK in his Senior year, have not been looked upon to score (maybe there have been others). But most could be counted on to get the ball in the post and not lose it. Almost all could dunk the ball with emphasis. Or grab a rebound and hold it. Or get the ball and effectively pass it. Every time Sidibe gets the ball in traffic I hold my breath and pray. Whether it be on offense or defense.

SIdibe is 6'9" and weighs 209. Against most opposing centers he is badly out-sized. Wednesday night is the ultimate test, against Mooney. Last game Mooney's offensive rebounds late in the game spelled doom for the SU team. Mooney had career high in points. If Sidibe holds Mooney to close to his average I will be the first to congratulate him.

 

[OmahaCuse]

There is zero guarantee that Stewart would have come here of Hop was the coach here. Maybe. Maybe not. He was clear he wanted to get away from home.

Perhaps. However, Hopkins was and is a great recruiter and is. A great people person. Certainly has about 20 years of tread on his coaching career and like the fact that he plays the zone and learned from JB...If we think Autry or GMAC can lead the team into the next generation am fine with that also. Big fan of Griffen he has the IT factor to relate to kids. Eventually it will happen just prefer it to be planned. IMO, UNC is in the same boat with Roy as well.