It's Time to Pull the Plug on Babers

[tipphill]

Wow, given all the (justified) FSU and VPI mocking we do, that tells me one thing: SU needs to get a little more selective in admissions.

we have never been an " elite " academic school" we have a poor law school, cantor dragged university through the mud academically, we tend to think we are better than we really r. we say we have peer schools like bc,northwestern,wake forest, vandy etc. we are not academically peers with them. would u choose su over any of those????
we are Not Bad either. we have some excellent schools you know who they are. we are overpriced to our value. at this point, i wish we had some state money to help with research facilities, improve the law school,hire top profs and get rid of the dead wood as well as improve facilities to compete on a national stage to generate the revenue we need.
oh well, done- tired of su for now but will be up to last game anyway.

 

[Jeremy L.]

OP - let's say Syracuse canned Babers, who does Syracuse hire? Not who do you want, but who does Syracuse pay and who would want to come here?

 

[OrangeDW]

OP - let's say Syracuse canned Babers, who does Syracuse hire? Not who do you want, but who does Syracuse pay and who would want to come here?

Not the OP, but my short list:
1. Tom Coughlin
2. Bill Parcells
3. Nick Saban
4. Bill Cowher
5. Eddie O
6. Doug Marrone
7. Donovan McNabb
8. Mike Ditka
9. Macky MacPherson
10. The Maryland coach - not sure of his name or what people here think of him, but boy was that one prepared football team in week 2.

 

[suorange08]

There are no open admissions. There are minimum NCAA admission requirements. SU and Louisville along with most of the ACC teams use this standard. Duke and Notre Dame i believe are the exceptions.

Notre Dame definitely admits players who are below their typical admission requirements. Kelly even admitted it a few years ago stating maybe 1 or 2 of the scholarship players would be admitted if they weren't on the football team.

 

[Chip]

How does this thread have so many posts?

(that I just added to, so guilty).

 

[Crusty]

Many wanted FHCDM's head after 2011. This post is just as lame.

 

[kcsu]

we don’t recruit them. Lville is open admissions, SU isn’t. SU allows only x number of “at risk” students, Lville doesn’t.

That wasnt what i asked. It doesn't matter who we recruit. What matters is who is admitted. My point is that the NCAA and ACC rules for admission are the same for all conference teams. SU and Louisville might recruit a different level student but Louisville nor any other team cant allow a kid to play that doesn't meet the minimum admission standards.

 

[rrlbees]

That wasnt what i asked. It doesn't matter who we recruit. What matters is who is admitted. My point is that the NCAA and ACC rules for admission are the same for all conference teams. SU and Louisville might recruit a different level student but Louisville nor any other team cant allow a kid to play that doesn't meet the minimum admission standards.

the minimum requirements. And you responded to the wrong post.

 

[kcsu]

the minimum requirements. And you responded to the wrong post.

Ok Bees im sure you are correct.

 

[CuseOnly]

Syracuse has had an indoor facility since 1980*. Since 2008 they’ve had two. With the addition of the IPF it now has three. I’m not aware of any other programs that have access to three of their own indoor facilities.

* in the Spring of 1982 I participated in team training activities in the Dome (we would jog there from Manley)

Yes, Manley was originally built to be a football practice facility but it wasn't used as that very much. Then it was changed so that you couldn't practice football in there because it was a basketball court and bleachers. It was then renovated back under Gross in 2010 to be used as indoor practice for football as well as track and 10 other sports. It also wasn't a full football field and limited the kicking game.

I know the history of the building.

1 - If Manley was enough and we already had 2 indoor facilities, why did we build the Ensley Center? Exactly, it wasn't good enough and football needed a facility of their "own". Other sports use it but Football is the priority.

2 - I didn't see football recruits leaving campus impressed with Manley and wanting to come here. Or the Dome for that matter. Just go to any one of the services and look at our recruiting rankings. The Dome brought in recruits when it was first built, not so much anymore. I think kickers love to come to Syracuse and we have had some great ones.

 

[Moontan]

I think kickers love to come to Syracuse and we have had some great ones.

I’ll let you guess which position I was trying out for...

 

[rrlbees]

Ok Bees im sure you are correct.

I could name names but I won’t. Sneaking by on the SAT and core grades does not always get you in.

 

[AAM62]

Syracuse is a tough gig these days. It won’t change unless somehow recruits get bags of money to come here. Yeah it’s been bad, but I’m not sure last year was an aberration. The 2017 team realistically could’ve been a 7 win team if dungey didn’t go down.

this year they rested on their laurels a bit, didn’t innovate and felt the brunt of some recruiting losses. I think dino can turn it around if he truly wants to and if we get some real money pumped into this thing.

 

[Moontan]

Yes, Manley was originally built to be a football practice facility but it wasn't used as that very much. Then it was changed so that you couldn't practice football in there because it was a basketball court and bleachers. It was then renovated back under Gross in 2010 to be used as indoor practice for football as well as track and 10 other sports. It also wasn't a full football field and limited the kicking game.

I know the history of the building.

1 - If Manley was enough and we already had 2 indoor facilities, why did we build the Ensley Center? Exactly, it wasn't good enough and football needed a facility of their "own". Other sports use it but Football is the priority.

2 - I didn't see football recruits leaving campus impressed with Manley and wanting to come here. Or the Dome for that matter. Just go to any one of the services and look at our recruiting rankings. The Dome brought in recruits when it was first built, not so much anymore. I think kickers love to come to Syracuse and we have had some great ones.

I was just responding to your post. Bottom line, if coaches felt that they needed to practice indoors then they could have. Was it a great option? No, but at least they could practice if they needed to.

That said, I’m glad that the IPF is there. Make some more improvements (facilities & housing) and recruiting should improve...

 

[kcsu]

I could name names but I won’t. Sneaking by on the SAT and core grades does not always get you in.

No of course not. Im sure im off here. I was just going by the published rules. Thx

 

[CuseOnly]

I was just responding to your post. Bottom line, if coaches felt that they needed to practice indoors then they could have. Was it a great option? No, but at least they could practice if they needed to.

That said, I’m glad that the IPF is there. Make some more improvements (facilities & housing) and recruiting should improve...

I agree 100%, Babers today just basically said you can't just "wish" for success and it will happen.

There should be a plan to be the Division Champ in so many years.

Then a plan to win the ACC Championship. Then a plan to win the National Championship.

Sacrifice and invest accordingly. Make what will be some hard choices. Some will pay off, some won't.

IF we aren't getting the top-notch recruits we want now, find out what has to change to get them. Then make that change. We had a 10 win season last year and it didn't help recruiting this year. So maybe something has to change before the consistent winning comes?

If the administration isn't aware of what the shortcomings of the program are, then we need help from an outside firm to evaluate and compare SU honestly with other programs that we are looking to surpass.

And if the bill comes out to $150 million, get out the checkbook.

 

[rrlbees]

I agree 100%, Babers today just basically said you can't just "wish" for success and it will happen.

There should be a plan to be the Division Champ in so many years.

Then a plan to win the ACC Championship. Then a plan to win the National Championship.

Sacrifice and invest accordingly. Make what will be some hard choices. Some will pay off, some won't.

IF we aren't getting the top-notch recruits we want now, find out what has to change to get them. Then make that change. We had a 10 win season last year and it didn't help recruiting this year. So maybe something has to change before the consistent winning comes?

If the administration isn't aware of what the shortcomings of the program are, then we need help from an outside firm to evaluate and compare SU honestly with other programs that we are looking to surpass.

And if the bill comes out to $150 million, get out the checkbook.

You should send this post to Wildhack. He probably doesn’t have any idea.

 

[CuseOnly]

You should send this post to Wildhack. He probably doesn’t have any idea.

It's an overly simplistic view, I know. I would like to think that Wildhack and the administration have a plan but after 3+ years I am not seeing it.

Honestly, do you see a plan from the administration? Yeah, we are now on par with paying a coach and his staff.

What's the next step? To get beyond that and improve the football program.

Asking you now, what do you think should be done?

I would think that sitting back and hoping that Babers is going to fix everything isn't the plan they were/are thinking of.

 

[kcsu]

The biggest bang for the buck is an investment in the staff. Best coaches/ recruiters. Next would be living quarters. Housing rules.

 

[rrlbees]

It's an overly simplistic view, I know. I would like to think that Wildhack and the administration have a plan but after 3+ years I am not seeing it.

Honestly, do you see a plan from the administration? Yeah, we are now on par with paying a coach and his staff.

What's the next step? To get beyond that and improve the football program.

Asking you now, what do you think should be done?

I would think that sitting back and hoping that Babers is going to fix everything isn't the plan they were/are thinking of.

they’ve invested in the HC and staff salaries. They’ve increased the football budget including recruiting budget. They’ve invested in the fan experience. They’ve invested in facilities. They will continue investing in these things.

 

[CuseOnly]

The biggest bang for the buck is an investment in the staff. Best coaches/ recruiters. Next would be living quarters. Housing rules.

You think so? What happens when the staff leaves for a "better" job or more money? Staff is also a crapshoot, you really don't know what you are getting or if what they teach will work here with our talent level.

Coaches aren't permanent...Boeheim doesn't count.

Housing makes sense because housing doesn't leave for more money and is pretty much permanent.

Increasing the talent level is what everyone wants, but how can you do that and sustain it when/if you are able to upgrade it ?

 

[CuseOnly]

they’ve invested in the HC and staff salaries. They’ve increased the football budget including recruiting budget. They’ve invested in the fan experience. They’ve invested in facilities. They will continue investing in these things.

Bees, all of that stuff you mentioned just puts us where others have been for several years.

IPF - SU was one of the last to get one, should have been one of the first
Private flights for recruiting - most P5 Schools have been doing that forever. That started less than 4 years ago when Babers got here. Crazy Eyes had a stinking helicopter.

The football budget was increased to pay the staff more and add more staff. That we are all aware of.

I truly believe Babers is the right guy for the job, but he needs help. And lots of it.

None of that seems to have had an effect on the talent level we are able to recruit. Which will absolutely have an effect on the "on field" product and wins.

I hope they continue to invest because stopping when you haven't gotten to where you can beat in conference peer schools is not a good place to stop. Wake, BC, NC State, Virginia, Louisville.

What's the next step, now what?

 

[Scooch]

Bees, all of that stuff you mentioned just puts us where others have been for several years.

IPF - SU was one of the last to get one, should have been one of the first
Private flights for recruiting - most P5 Schools have been doing that forever. That started less than 4 years ago when Babers got here. Crazy Eyes had a stinking helicopter.

The football budget was increased to pay the staff more and add more staff. That we are all aware of.

I truly believe Babers is the right guy for the job, but he needs help. And lots of it.

None of that seems to have had an effect on the talent level we are able to recruit. Which will absolutely have an effect on the "on field" product and wins.

I hope they continue to invest because stopping when you haven't gotten to where you can beat in conference peer schools is not a good place to stop. Wake, BC, NC State, Virginia, Louisville.

What's the next step, now what?

My understanding is that Dino is getting all of the resources he says he needs. Meanwhile, the team that won 10 games last year leaned on a senior class that was recruited when our facilities were worse, and our staff was less well paid. SU is investing more in the program that it has in its history.

 

[rrlbees]

Bees, all of that stuff you mentioned just puts us where others have been for several years.

IPF - SU was one of the last to get one, should have been one of the first
Private flights for recruiting - most P5 Schools have been doing that forever. That started less than 4 years ago when Babers got here. Crazy Eyes had a stinking helicopter.

The football budget was increased to pay the staff more and add more staff. That we are all aware of.

I truly believe Babers is the right guy for the job, but he needs help. And lots of it.

None of that seems to have had an effect on the talent level we are able to recruit. Which will absolutely have an effect on the "on field" product and wins.

I hope they continue to invest because stopping when you haven't gotten to where you can beat in conference peer schools is not a good place to stop. Wake, BC, NC State, Virginia, Louisville.

What's the next step, now what?

You tell me. What should they do that I didn’t mention? And stop saying housing. That’s in the plan.

 

[CuseOnly]

My understanding is that Dino is getting all of the resources he says he needs. Meanwhile, the team that won 10 games last year leaned on a senior class that was recruited when our facilities were worse, and our staff was less well paid. SU is investing more in the program that it has in its history.

You are kind of making my point. The upgrades to the staff salaries and what has been done with facilities hasn't upgraded the talent level much if at all.

Get ready for next year, we have to replace 3 Senior defensive ends a defensive tackle, so 3 of our starting front 4, and this years best linebacker. From our defense that was arguably one of the worst ever fielded here.

What are those guys getting replaced with?