JB and the Bench

[djcon57]

Because it’s not that hard to play 40 minutes after 7 days off, and 3 days of rest coming up. With timeouts every 4 minutes. Lebron played 47 of 48 minutes in the box score you posted. He’s not getting tired. And 48 is a lot more than 40.

It's not hard to play 40 minutes of division 1 basketball. Got it.

Trae Young has played 40 plus only 3 times this year, by the way. Trae Young.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

How would the Cavs not need every minute out of Lebron in Game 7 of the NBA finals? He sat because he was tired. He got a breather and came back in. It would help Battle if he did the same.

LeBron played 47 of 48 because they needed him to win the game. It’s a good thing he didn’t play 41. They would have lost.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

It's not hard to play 40 minutes of division 1 basketball. Got it.

Trae Young has played 40 plus only 3 times this year, by the way. Trae Young.

Exactly. He’s done it in 3 of his last 4 games. Because they needed him to do that in order to win. Not that hard.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I find it funny guards like Dion Waiters, Scoop Jardine never played high 30 MPG.

Whereas our guards since 2014 all have played high 30 MPG.

We had a lot of good guards back then. Triche/Waiters/Scoop. No need to play that many.

 

[rrlbees]

Howard Washington makes our half court offense better.
He is our best passer and brings more ball handling. It’s his defense as to why he doesn’t play.

If that were completely true, he’d be playing some.

 

[pearl31]

If that were completely true, he’d be playing some.

eh it's clear he's a big dropoff at the top of the 2-3 - that's typically enough for JB - defense > offense these days

 

[rrlbees]

eh it's clear he's a big dropoff at the top of the 2-3 - that's typically enough for JB - defense > offense these days

Yea, defense is #1, but still...

 

[Alsacs]

If that were completely true, he’d be playing some.

He is our best ball handler. Completely true.
He makes our half court offense better because the ball moves and it helps break a defense.
Completely true.
Watch the first half of the FSU game.
It’s defense why he doesn’t play.

 

[shu 49]

I agree wholeheartedly with long island use. One game ok, but no break is bs. One min or two isn't changing that game. If anyone can't see that it takes a toll, I feel sorry for ya. We need these guys rested a little at least. It didn't effect us today, but wait till we play a aggressive attacking defense and u will notice the difference. Go orange.

 

[rrlbees]

He is our best ball handler. Completely true.
He makes our half court offense better because the ball moves and it helps break a defense.
Completely true.
Watch the first half of the FSU game.
It’s defense why he doesn’t play.

Again, disagree. But that’s ok. He passes a lot because he doesn’t really look for his own offense. And when we played small, the offense is going to look different because we have 3 ball handlers vs 2.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You’ll see the bench used more next year. This year you guys will slam your head against the wall.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I answered it, its because howard Washington will lose you possessions. you cant risk his inexperience putting you into 1 or 2 possession games that you would have won easily. its not worth it.

Double digits leads are not one or two possession games. Your entire premise is faulty.

 

[Fly Rodder]

So just to be clear, it's a great tactic to play your best players 40 mpg and its no big deal because they get plenty of rest and are young, but JAB only does it because he has a thin bench, am I getting the gist of this?

 

[Fly Rodder]

You’ll see the bench used more next year. This year you guys will slam your head against the wall.

I don't disagree, but man, next year is always going to be loaded and then ...

 

[OttoMets]

At the end of the season in this or just about any sport only one team's fans celebrate the ultimate victory, the big prize. Everyone else experiences defeat.

All sports fans are masochists if they have a clue.

Probably. But I've always appreciated this Roger Angell line (about the Mets, of course): "I think it's better not quite to win, because you're always hoping for something."

There's something to that. Winning it all is incredible, but there's a sense of "what now" afterward. It doesn't get better from there, there's nothing to hope for.

Anyway, I obviously couldn't disagree more strongly about your take on the bench and (no offense) I think it's coming from a disingenuous place, but I completely agree with your cynicism about the post-Boeheim future of the Syracuse program. Perhaps some of the pushback has to do with the messenger rather than the already-unpopular message.

How do you replace a Hall of Famer? How do you replace a Hall of Famer at a place that's not Kentucky or Kansas or North Carolina?

I don't know. But what separates Syracuse from 40 other schools that had periodic success in the '20s and '60s and '70s, what puts Syracuse into rational discussions about top-15 college programs every year, is Boeheim.

Maybe the school will a) dramatically increase the budget for the next hire and b) catch lightning in a bottle with that hire (really, for every guy who's hired at $2 million per year to win a lot of basketball games, at least 75% of those people don't end up meeting this board's standards in wins and losses, set for 40 years by Boeheim). Maybe those things will happen. Or maybe we'll have our share of 25-win seasons with a bunch of .600 (or worse) mixed in. To me, it seems like the latter is more likely. That's why excellence is celebrated, because so few are able to achieve it. Odds are that we won't keep it going.

 

[OttoMets]

I didn't say every game, just playoffs. No back to backs. Why not 48? It's the playoffs. He should play every minute of every important game. Why doesn't he?

Because he's a decrepit old man, obviously, far less fit and capable than those young 21-year-old student-athletes who eat at college dining halls and balance workouts with class schedules.

Where's that sarcasm font?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

So just to be clear, it's a great tactic to play your best players 40 mpg and its no big deal because they get plenty of rest and are young, but JAB only does it because he has a thin bench, am I getting the gist of this?

Correct, not a big deal. Except for those whiners that need something to complain about at an 18 point win.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Because he's a decrepit old man, obviously, far less fit and capable than those young 21-year-old student-athletes who eat at college dining halls and balance workouts with class schedules.

Where's that sarcasm font?

The fact that he still played 47 minutes tells you everything you need to know. At 33 years old.

 

[OttoMets]

The fact that he still played 47 minutes tells you everything you need to know. At 33 years old.

Yeah, it tells me that it benefits a team to have its best player on the floor for as long as possible while providing him a little strategic rest.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Yeah, it tells me that it benefits a team to have its best player on the floor for as long as possible while providing him a little strategic rest.

A little? 1 minute? It tells me a player can play 40 minutes, no problem.

 

[Townie72]

Probably. But I've always appreciated this Roger Angell line (about the Mets, of course): "I think it's better not quite to win, because you're always hoping for something."

There's something to that. Winning it all is incredible, but there's a sense of "what now" afterward. It doesn't get better from there, there's nothing to hope for.

Anyway, I obviously couldn't disagree more strongly about your take on the bench and (no offense) I think it's coming from a disingenuous place, but I completely agree with your cynicism about the post-Boeheim future of the Syracuse program. Perhaps some of the pushback has to do with the messenger rather than the already-unpopular message.

How do you replace a Hall of Famer? How do you replace a Hall of Famer at a place that's not Kentucky or Kansas or North Carolina?

I don't know. But what separates Syracuse from 40 other schools that had periodic success in the '20s and '60s and '70s, what puts Syracuse into rational discussions about top-15 college programs every year, is Boeheim.

Maybe the school will a) dramatically increase the budget for the next hire and b) catch lightning in a bottle with that hire (really, for every guy who's hired at $2 million per year to win a lot of basketball games, at least 75% of those people don't end up meeting this board's standards in wins and losses, set for 40 years by Boeheim). Maybe those things will happen. Or maybe we'll have our share of 25-win seasons with a bunch of .600 (or worse) mixed in. To me, it seems like the latter is more likely. That's why excellence is celebrated, because so few are able to achieve it. Odds are that we won't keep it going.

On the Post- JB era and the difficulty of getting someone who will be as successful and the likely future of the program, I agree with you. You and I are exactly in the same place.

Fans need to appreciate this now.

It reminds me of a conversation I had in the early 1990's with two of my SU friends in which we arrived at the conclusion that these --- not the Schwartzwalder era --- were the "Good Old Days". SU basketball, football and lacrosse were flying high. But I don't think anyone of us imagined football would fall so far for such a long time.

In the last seven years, I have become re-interested in baseball after decades of not caring. And baseball familiarizes you with the concept of defeat. Out of necessity, you have to handle it better. Even very good teams lose 60 or 70 games a year.

Some of these guys on here need to watch more baseball. Maybe they won't have to start throwing rocks 10 minutes after the end of games to help them manage their frustration.

 

[Townie72]

So just to be clear, it's a great tactic to play your best players 40 mpg and its no big deal because they get plenty of rest and are young, but JAB only does it because he has a thin bench, am I getting the gist of this?

You seem confused. What JB does is to use the players he has to win games. You win games by not having players on the floor who might lose the games for you.

You do not have the luxury of having a player on the floor that is significantly worse than a player you have on the bench. Especially if you believe as JB does, that these better players are not tired (or not sufficiently tired to justify putting in someone less skilled)

That's because these games very frequently turn on a very few possessions. A defensive lapse or two, a couple of turnovers, a bad shot that is taken or a good shot that is missed are the difference in many of these games.

And turnovers and mistakes are very frequently four or five point plays. (The two you miss and the two or three points the opponent gets taking the ball the other way)

ACC games are NOT the time for player development. That's what you do in practice, against Cornell or Colgate or in the rare times when you are in a blow-out.

 

[kuethstheman]

How would the Cavs not need every minute out of Lebron in Game 7 of the NBA finals? He sat because he was tired. He got a breather and came back in. It would help Battle if he did the same.

Obviously, the Cavs need to play some zone!

 

[cuseattle]

On the Post- JB era and the difficulty of getting someone who will be as successful and the likely future of the program, I agree with you. You and I are exactly in the same place.

Fans need to appreciate this now.

It reminds me of a conversation I had in the early 1990's with two of my SU friends in which we arrived at the conclusion that these --- not the Schwartzwalder era --- were the "Good Old Days". SU basketball, football and lacrosse were flying high. But I don't think anyone of us imagined football would fall so far for such a long time.

In the last seven years, I have become re-interested in baseball after decades of not caring. And baseball familiarizes you with the concept of defeat. Out of necessity, you have to handle it better. Even very good teams lose 60 or 70 games a year.

Some of these guys on here need to watch more baseball. Maybe they won't have to start throwing rocks 10 minutes after the end of games to help them manage their frustration.

That's why I love baseball. Even when my Mariners are bad, I'm just a frog, slowly being brought to a boil.

 

[djcon57]

Correct, not a big deal. Except for those whiners that need something to complain about at an 18 point win.

No one is complaining about an 18 point win. No one.

We are discussing the long term affects in the season of playing someone for every minute of every game.

My guess is you were the guy in 2003 that was saying we couldn't sit Duany for Pace because Pace couldn't shoot a 3 and we would lose without Duany's defense and shooting. Thank god JB played a longer bench that year. We never win the title without it.