JB and the Bench

[Fly Rodder]

They get a breather every 4 minutes, plus halftime.

Which is why all the other coaches are running their best players 38+ mpg.

JAB is a genius and no one else bothers to emulate him. Weird.

Edited to add, since 09-10, Syracuse and Notre Dame dominate the top-10 in mpg. SU has 10 of the top 23 (>38 mpg in conference play) and ND has 5. (added link)https://www.sports-reference.com/cb...mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=25&order_by=mp_per_g

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I hope you are right on the ability oif the program to keep om keeping on. BUT:

Recruiting Pipeline - I don't know what recruiting "pipeline" means. We'll continue to get good recruits s long as SU is an attractive place to come to play. But there isn't any residual affect that says, "I'm going to SU because other kids from my school or my town have gone there in the past."

It means your assistant coaches/head coach have inroads into the high schools/AAU programs and the ability to meet with these kids and have coaches speak favorably about the school.

Good Players Nearby - What do you think is "Nearby"? Buffalo is nearby. Philadelphia isn't. DC definitely isn't. We here are 4 hours from UNC and 7 hours from Syracuse. Besides, if geographic proximity to BB talent was all that important, Rutgers would be a powerhouse.

Philly/Baltimore/NYC are all nearby geographically speaking. In football, the majority of big time players are from the Deep South or South Florida.

An "Iconic" Dome - It's a football stadium and we play against one of the end zones. It doesn't seem to be that great an advantage to the football team that it was designed for.

30k+ and huge crowds is definitely an advantage for Syracuse and the Dome, basketball speaking.

What SU does have is a "Brand Name" and history and tradition and a large fan base.

And then there is Boeheim. Once he leaves, we'll see what a "brand name" is worth. Georgetown has a "brand name" too. They are struggling mightily

Have to see who we hire. We are also in an infinitely better place than G'Town with our ACC affiliation.

Also,

 

[Sherman20]

WHat’s up with Sidibe not getting off the bench at all after playing in all our ACC games, including 9 minutes against Pitt and 8 minutes against Fla State?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

WHat’s up with Sidibe not getting off the bench at all after playing in all our ACC games, including 9 minutes against Pitt and 8 minutes against Fla State?

I believe OttoinGrotto mentioned the dreaded potato knee.

 

[pfister1]

So it's about relative tiredness?

Only the amount of time they are in the game matters?

Somehow players who play 34 minutes are more effective than than those that play 40 minutes regardless of what they are doing (Press vs. M2M vs Zone versus fast-breaking vs walking the ball up court on offense).

After reading these statements on here, I decided to do some reading on the subject. What I found was that it is a very complicated subject with a lot of differing opinions among the researchers and experts who study "fatigue" and "recovery rates" and blood oxygen content and acids produced during exercise and even more stuff.

I don't know if how tired these guys are. But neither do you and it's highly possible that three of four minutes more of playing doesn't mean shxt.

Nah just like all starting pitchers need to be removed from a game upon reaching the 100 pitch plateau. Everyone is the same, all stress on the body is the same.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Which is why all the other coaches are running their best players 38+ mpg.

JAB is a genius and no one else bothers to emulate him. Weird.

Edited to add, since 09-10, Syracuse and Notre Dame dominate the top-10 in mpg. SU has 10 of the top 23 (>38 mpg in conference play) and ND has 5.

Duke sometimes does it. I believe Coach K has mentioned it's not a big deal as well.

 

[pfister1]

So let's say we make the tournament. Ideal scenario where our guys are the exception to the rule and never get dinged up and can run marathons every day... We start winning close games so that argument is taken away from fans like me...

Even in a tourney setting where you can make the argument that a tightened rotation is fine given the extreme commercial breaks.. we still haven't developed anyone if Battle or Howard get a couple quick fouls.

You can't roll with 2 guards. It's insane that I even need to say this. Coaches recruited HW. Coaches brought in Thorpe who spazzed out. Coaches missed on recruits that could've helped us. It's on them to develop HW to the point where he can at least stand on the court and be a body for a few minutes per game. ...because, again, it's insane that we only play 2 guards.

This is the better argument. You can debate whether they can handle the rigors of playing 40 minutes per game.

Hard to debate that they become less effective if they accumulate early fouls. Impossible to debate that they have to be replaced after getting 5 fouls or God forbid an injury like Moyer suffered last night.

 

[Bayside44]

This is really neither here nor there, but it is odd to me that even very mundane factual statements get stretched in service of an agenda. Washington is not 4 hours from Chapel Hill or 7 hours from Syracuse. I've driven both (the Syracuse-DC route probably 40 times). It's six hours to Syracuse from DC, and around 5 to Chapel Hill. Philly's four hours away from Syracuse. Boston's five. New York is four. Baltimore is five. You can get to Syracuse in a half-days drive from any of these cities, which is an advantage. Is it a major one? I don't know. But Syracuse can say to anyone in this recruiting catchment that their parents/family/friends can get here easily to watch them play (or steal meal cards, as the case may be).

Depends where you leave from. It's all hairsplitting I've done Chapel Hill from 6 o'clock on the Beltway in 4, and well over 6 to the Cuse (thanks PA). Back in the day it took well over 5 from NYC but my car then was basically something that would lose a race to Fred Flintstone.

 

[Alsacs]

In Townie’s view JB is SU hoops and once he is gone the program is done.

JB built the program and was generous with taking less than he could have in compensation.

With that said SU will be fine post JB as long as the University will pay market value. JB has done the university beyond well by taking less.

Just don’t make the successor GMac and I won’t care.

College hoops has become either develop 4 year guys or attract one and dones to remain nationally relevant consistently.

 

[rrlbees]

In Townie’s view JB is SU hoops and once he is gone the program is done.

JB built the program and was generous with taking less than he could have in compensation.

With that said SU will be fine post JB as long as the University will pay market value. JB has done the university beyond well by taking less.

Just don’t make the successor GMac and I won’t care.

College hoops has become either develop 4 year guys or attract one and dones to remain nationally relevant consistently.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Let’s talk about all this zone defense we play. What’s up with that?

 

[Townie72]

This is really neither here nor there, but it is odd to me that even very mundane factual statements get stretched in service of an agenda. Washington is not 4 hours from Chapel Hill or 7 hours from Syracuse. I've driven both (the Syracuse-DC route probably 40 times). It's six hours to Syracuse from DC, and around 5 to Chapel Hill. Philly's four hours away from Syracuse. Boston's five. New York is four. Baltimore is five. You can get to Syracuse in a half-days drive from any of these cities, which is an advantage. Is it a major one? I don't know. But Syracuse can say to anyone in this recruiting catchment that their parents/family/friends can get here easily to watch them play (or steal meal cards, as the case may be).

I thought I'd check. Here's what I found using Google maps, which in my experience is very accurate.

From Washington DC:
College Park, Maryland - 30 minutes
Charlottesville, VA - 2:57
Villanova, PA - 3:00
Philadelphia (Temple) - 3:09
Wake Forest, NC - 4:30
Durham, NC - 4:35
Blacksburg, VA - 4:37
Chapel Hill, NC - 5:00 (You were right)
Syracuse, NY 6:35 (unless it snows) Now who is "shaving"?

6:35 is not half a day's drive.

Regardless. Certainly to people in Maryland and DC, Syracuse, NY seems far away and in the "boonies" of a place called Central NY where they have heard it snows a lot.

If you want to say "proximity to lots of basketball talent is an enduring positive factor in the ability of the school to remain competitive at the Top 25 level, enjoy yourself.

To me, the long term success of the program has been in spite of the location and not because of it.

 

[Alsacs]

View attachment 120602

I know you have said GMac as JB’s successor.
Give me Autry if it’s a current assistant.

 

[Townie72]

View attachment 120602

33% correct.

My position is that the success of the program and the rise from the almost mid-major ECAC was based on:
The meteoric rise of the Big East
ESPN and exposure like on Big Monday's
Very, very good coaching and coaching stability over a long period of time.

We've gone from being one of the Big East powers to pretty much just another ACC team. (What has happened is exactly what JB warned about. This is a tougher conference. It's harder to win)

Our share of coverage (and visibility) has dropped significantly. There are now dozen of games on each day all getting a much smaller slice of the pie.

Getting back to the level and staying at it is going to be harder than it has ever been.

Oh yes, and any new coach, no matter how much we pay him, is a crap shoot.

In my mind, the probability that SU goes up from where it is currently is lower than the probability it goes down.

 

[Townie72]

Which is why all the other coaches are running their best players 38+ mpg.

JAB is a genius and no one else bothers to emulate him. Weird.

Edited to add, since 09-10, Syracuse and Notre Dame dominate the top-10 in mpg. SU has 10 of the top 23 (>38 mpg in conference play) and ND has 5. (added link)

Well, how about coaches who want to throw a few crumbs (minutes) to these primarily practice players to keep the whining down and keeping them interested so that they don't transfer.

He may need some of them next year.

 

[rrlbees]

I know you have said GMac as JB’s successor.
Give me Autry if it’s a current assistant.

He’ll be gone.

 

[rrlbees]

33% correct.

My position is that the success of the program and the rise from the almost mid-major ECAC was based on:
The meteoric rise of the Big East
ESPN and exposure like on Big Monday's
Very, very good coaching and coaching stability over a long period of time.

We've gone from being one of the Big East powers to pretty much just another ACC team. (What has happened is exactly what JB warned about. This is a tougher conference. It's harder to win)

Our share of coverage (and visibility) has dropped significantly. There are now dozen of games on each day all getting a much smaller slice of the pie.

Getting back to the level and staying at it is going to be harder than it has ever been.

Oh yes, and any new coach, no matter how much we pay him, is a crap shoot.

In my mind, the probability that SU goes up from where it is currently is lower than the probability it goes down.

That wasn’t my point but OK. Alsacs knew what I meant.

 

[dasher]

33% correct.

My position is that the success of the program and the rise from the almost mid-major ECAC was based on:
The meteoric rise of the Big East
ESPN and exposure like on Big Monday's
Very, very good coaching and coaching stability over a long period of time.

We've gone from being one of the Big East powers to pretty much just another ACC team. (What has happened is exactly what JB warned about. This is a tougher conference. It's harder to win)

Our share of coverage (and visibility) has dropped significantly. There are now dozen of games on each day all getting a much smaller slice of the pie.

Getting back to the level and staying at it is going to be harder than it has ever been.

Oh yes, and any new coach, no matter how much we pay him, is a crap shoot.

In my mind, the probability that SU goes up from where it is currently is lower than the probability it goes down.

Strongly disagree. We will always be a power as long as someone at Syracuse cares about basketball. Our downturn is a direct result of the sanctions and the misfortune of recruiting some guys that blew up before we thought they would. The sanctions are basically up. Our recruiting for next year is excellent. I think it will not be long before we are consistently top 5 in the ACC.

 

[pearl31]

ugh why do people keep feeding the townie

 

[Townie72]

ugh why do people keep feeding the townie

Maybe they think a discussion of the program's likely (or possible) fate and competitive position post-JB is an interesting discussion on which they have an opinion.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Maybe they think a discussion of the program's likely (or possible) fate and competitive position post-JB is an interesting discussion on which they have an opinion.

Or we're just masochists

 

[Townie72]

Or we're just masochists

At the end of the season in this or just about any sport only one team's fans celebrate the ultimate victory, the big prize. Everyone else experiences defeat.

All sports fans are masochists if they have a clue.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Whenever Townie starts posting in a thread you know it’s at least going to last 5 pages.

 

[DBCooper]

Which is why all the other coaches are running their best players 38+ mpg.

JAB is a genius and no one else bothers to emulate him. Weird.

Edited to add, since 09-10, Syracuse and Notre Dame dominate the top-10 in mpg. SU has 10 of the top 23 (>38 mpg in conference play) and ND has 5. (added link)

That's too bad. I thought Mike Brey was a good coach. Apparently he doesn't know what he's doing either.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is the better argument. You can debate whether they can handle the rigors of playing 40 minutes per game.

Hard to debate that they become less effective if they accumulate early fouls. Impossible to debate that they have to be replaced after getting 5 fouls or God forbid an injury like Moyer suffered last night.

And that if you never play your bench, it is also not debatable that the person you call on probably won't be as ready as they would have been, if they had been playing 7 or 8 minutes a game all season long. Then if somebody fouls out or gets injured, the person isn't a deer in the headlights.