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JB and the Bench

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No one is complaining about an 18 point win. No one.

We are discussing the long term affects in the season of playing someone for every minute of every game.

My guess is you were the guy in 2003 that was saying we couldn't sit Duany for Pace because Pace couldn't shoot a 3 and we would lose without Duany's defense and shooting. Thank god JB played a longer bench that year. We never win the title without it.

Right nobody is complaining about an 18 point win but amazingly have found other things to complain about.

No, I really liked Josh Pace a lot. If we had a player like him on the bench he would be playing. If Thompson and Thorpe didn’t bail on us we wouldn’t be in the situation. JB would rather play 8 than 7, but he needs kids that won’t cost us games. If we want to win games or have a chance to win games our best players are going to have to play Nearly the entire game. With all the timeouts and days off between games playing 40 minutes isn’t that big a deal.
 
Right nobody is complaining about an 18 point win but amazingly have found other things to complain about.

No, I really liked Josh Pace a lot. If we had a player like him on the bench he would be playing. If Thompson and Thorpe didn’t bail on us we wouldn’t be in the situation. JB would rather play 8 than 7, but he needs kids that won’t cost us games. If we want to win games or have a chance to win games our best players are going to have to play Nearly the entire game. With all the timeouts and days off between games playing 40 minutes isn’t that big a deal.

This is precious.

You want to say if Thorpe was here that we wouldn't be playing Battle 40? He played COONEY 40.

It is a big deal. If it wasn't, everyone would be playing 40. They don't. This is a fact. The stats have been posted numerous times. I'll give you the last word on this one.
 
Who are we supposed to play? We have a backup center (who I like a lot) that cannot seem to go yet, and a backup forward who is now playing. Are these 8 pages dedicated to Howard Washington?
 
Who are we supposed to play? We have a backup center (who I like a lot) that cannot seem to go yet, and a backup forward who is now playing. Are these 8 pages dedicated to Howard Washington?
I don't know, but JB beat one of his payers at midcourt with a tire iron, I think there is more than one poster in this thread that would defend him.
 
Who are we supposed to play? We have a backup center (who I like a lot) that cannot seem to go yet, and a backup forward who is now playing. Are these 8 pages dedicated to Howard Washington?

Yes, Howard Washington.

To give Battle and Howard a blow and so they have fresher legs at the end of games. It was stated as such in the OP. Pretty sure that was the point of the thread. At least, that's what I have been referring to.
 
Who are we supposed to play? We have a backup center (who I like a lot) that cannot seem to go yet, and a backup forward who is now playing. Are these 8 pages dedicated to Howard Washington?
It is JB’s fault last year our recruiting had no backups after Quade Green didn’t come and we had to use 1 scholarship on a grad transfer and 1
Scholarship on a transfer from another school.
We have 3 scholarship guards that is terrible.
 
Yes, Howard Washington.

To give Battle and Howard a blow and so they have fresher legs at the end of games. It was stated as such in the OP. Pretty sure that was the point of the thread. At least, that's what I have been referring to.
#MeToo

Did I use that wrong?
 
This is precious.

You want to say if Thorpe was here that we wouldn't be playing Battle 40? He played COONEY 40.

It is a big deal. If it wasn't, everyone would be playing 40. They don't. This is a fact. The stats have been posted numerous times. I'll give you the last word on this one.

Of course Thorpe would play, and Battle's minutes would go down a little bit. But there's nobody to come in for Battle now. Cooney played 40 minutes because we needed him too. He was a good player, and helped us get to a FF. Who would you like to have played over him? Franklin Howard? Kaleb Joseph? No thanks. Gimme Cooney and Gbinje playing the whole game and get to the FF.

Again, why is it a big deal to play 40 minutes? With 7 days off. And timeouts every 4 minutes? And 20 minute half time? Just because not everyone does it (there are some that do) doesn't mean it's a big deal. Other teams have depth that we don't. Here's your last word:

"Not minutes, it's injuries," Krzyzewski said. "Kids don't get tired from playing minutes. They get tired from over-practice. There's no kid in the world who gets tired from playing. You've got to be kidding me. You get tired if you play long minutes and then you practice long. None of those kids want to come out. That doesn't tire them out. It's how you practice."

I agree with the greatest college coach ever.
 
I don't know, but JB beat one of his payers at midcourt with a tire iron, I think there is more than one poster in this thread that would defend him.

And Syracuse could win by 18 and there is more than one poster in this thread that would still criticize him.
 
It is JB’s fault last year our recruiting had no backups after Quade Green didn’t come and we had to use 1 scholarship on a grad transfer and 1
Scholarship on a transfer from another school.
We have 3 scholarship guards that is terrible.

But you said Mike Hopkins and the assistants did all the recruiting. Why is it not their fault? Wasn't Howard Washington the final backup to Quade Green? We had 4 scholarship guards to start the season. Let me guess, it's Boeheim's fault Thorpe left the program?
 
Yes, Howard Washington.

To give Battle and Howard a blow and so they have fresher legs at the end of games. It was stated as such in the OP. Pretty sure that was the point of the thread. At least, that's what I have been referring to.


I mean the BC game was pretty obvious, they shoot well from 3 and JB has no faith the kid can guard it, at least yet. And that's not unfair, BC had one guy out there balding and practically 25 years old.
 
Yes, Howard Washington.

To give Battle and Howard a blow and so they have fresher legs at the end of games. It was stated as such in the OP. Pretty sure that was the point of the thread. At least, that's what I have been referring to.

Battle and Howards legs looked pretty fresh at the end of the game against BC. Probably because of all those timeouts.
 
I mean the BC game was pretty obvious, they shoot well from 3 and JB has no faith the kid can guard it, at least yet. And that's not unfair, BC had one guy out there balding and practically 25 years old.

Both of BC's guards played 40 minutes. Both Bowman and Robinson. Interesting. They combined for 41 points on 6-13 shooting from 3, and 15-27 from the floor. Didn't seem to affect them at all.
 
But you said Mike Hopkins and the assistants did all the recruiting. Why is it not their fault? Wasn't Howard Washington the final backup to Quade Green? We had 4 scholarship guards to start the season. Let me guess, it's Boeheim's fault Thorpe left the program?
Newsflash you don’t get to put it on the assistants when they don’t have control.
JB blocked Hop from bringing in a player 2 years ago.
If you even try to argue Howard Washington was the backup to Quade you lose all credibility.
Washington wasn’t offered till February. Our coaches board wasn’t
1. Quade Green
2. Howard Washington.

It’s not their fault when Jim Boeheim is the HEAD COACH. My god you do anything to spin.
 
Battle and Howards legs looked pretty fresh at the end of the game against BC. Probably because of all those timeouts.

You are thinking sprint. I am thinking marathon.

It's fine. When they are sucking wind at the end of a close game down the stretch, we can all wonder in amazement why Battles shots are hitting the front of the rim and why Howard isn't sprinting out in the zone like he did earlier in the game.
 
Both of BC's guards played 40 minutes. Both Bowman and Robinson. Interesting.
Yeah let’s model our program after a team that has gone
0-18 and 2-16 in ACC play the last 2 years and doesn’t recruit like Syracuse can.

Good comp.
 
I mean the BC game was pretty obvious, they shoot well from 3 and JB has no faith the kid can guard it, at least yet. And that's not unfair, BC had one guy out there balding and practically 25 years old.

HW looked fine in the FSU game playing 20 mins. What was different there
 
I mean the BC game was pretty obvious, they shoot well from 3 and JB has no faith the kid can guard it, at least yet. And that's not unfair, BC had one guy out there balding and practically 25 years old.
If we get foul trouble Howard Washington will be forced to play.
I get with the week off letting our guys play 40. When we play 2 games in 4 days they shouldn’t be playing 40.
The jumpers had legs in this game
Because they were fresh.
Our guys can use blows they aren’t machines.
 
You are thinking sprint. I am thinking marathon.

It's fine. When they are sucking wind at the end of a close game down the stretch, we can all wonder in amazement why Battles shots are hitting the front of the rim and why Howard isn't sprinting out in the zone like he did earlier in the game.

People said the same thing they year Syracuse went to the Final Four. Players playing too many minutes. They ended up playing in the Final Four.

Battle may have a bad shooting game (most players do) and Howard may have a play where he doesn't sprint in the zone (sometimes lapses happen), but I won't blame it on tired legs. Because it's not that difficult playing 40 minutes on 7 days rest with a ton of timeouts in the game.
 
HW looked fine in the FSU game playing 20 mins. What was different there


He got a lot of run in the 1st half and we ended up down 10, we were down 4 when he entered. The run in the 2nd half came when he was on the bench.
 
Yeah let’s model our program after a team that has gone
0-18 and 2-16 in ACC play the last 2 years and doesn’t recruit like Syracuse can.

Good comp.

As usual, you missed the point. BC has wins over Duke, Wake Forest and FSU. They aren't a bad team. They played their best players 4 minutes because they had to. JB is doing the same. Duke has done it as well. Is that a better comp for you?
 
He got a lot of run in the 1st half and we ended up down 10, we were down 4 when he entered. The run in the 2nd half came when he was on the bench.

We were down 4 and ended up tied, correct?
 
As usual, you missed the point. BC has wins over Duke, Wake Forest and FSU. They aren't a bad team. They played their best players 4 minutes because they had to. JB is doing the same. Duke has done it as well. Is that a better comp for you?
Which Duke teams? If you are going to cite them who were the players.
Playing 40 MPG.
 
People said the same thing they year Syracuse went to the Final Four. Players playing too many minutes. They ended up playing in the Final Four.

Battle may have a bad shooting game (most players do) and Howard may have a play where he doesn't sprint in the zone (sometimes lapses happen), but I won't blame it on tired legs. Because it's not that difficult playing 40 minutes on 7 days rest with a ton of timeouts in the game.


There's some validity to that.

I remember when we made our run to the championship game in 1996, when we played Kansas in the elite 8. We had the best low post player in the country, but Kansas had Pollard / LaFrentz who were both 6-11 [interestingly, Pollard ended up being the much more productive NBA player], and much better depth than we did. Our guys fought hard, and in fact Wallace / Otis Hill outplayed their far more ballyhooed counterpart big men. But toward the end of the game, our guys seemed close to running out of gas.

But at the end of games, lots of fouls happen, lots of timeouts, etc. So while our guys had expended a ton of energy getting to that point in the game, they got more "breaks" / "rest" then you would expect down the stretch even though they weren't sitting, due to the numerous stoppages of play, TV timeouts, etc.

I personally wish that JB would use the bench more, and like it when he [infrequently] uses an expanded rotation. I 100% believe that our players would benefit from getting even a few minutes of rest per half. But the reality is that these guys really have to go more like 36 -- not 40 -- due to the fact that games bog down so much at the end. Foul trouble is probably more salient an issue than fatigue, to be honest.
 
He got a lot of run in the 1st half and we ended up down 10, we were down 4 when he entered. The run in the 2nd half came when he was on the bench.
Howard Washington wasn’t why FSU made shots. They got offensive rebounds and made two 3’s.
 
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