JB's Presser after BC

[retro44]

Duke, UNC, NC State, Wake, and Virginia all lost yesterday.

Don't they all play m2m?

You'd think that m2m teams were undefeated since Naismith invented the game.

If good m2m teams can lose, why does anyone think we'll have success.

But they all lost to teams waaaaay better than Syracuse. They,Syracuse was getting ripped on the radio today as I was driving thru GA./N.C. today saying they lost bad to the second worst team in the ACC and saying JB has checked out and is done.Guess who they said was the worst?

 

[Jasoncuse]

But they all lost to teams waaaaay better than Syracuse. They,Syracuse was getting ripped on the radio today as I was driving thru GA./N.C. today saying they lost bad to the second worst team in the ACC and saying JB has checked out and is done.Guess who they said was the worst?

Pitt? Duke? Don't leave us hanging!!!

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Don't you hate me or am I thinking of someone with a similar handle?

It's a new year. Time to move on.

 

[iommi]

It's a new year. Time to move on.

I unblocked you quite a while back. I already moved on. Hope we can find middle ground going forward at least. I really don't have a problem with you.

Best to you this year.

 

[phil77]

IMO our offensive system is more out of date than our defensive system. But the question is can we have a modern offense with a zone defense.

Also IMO everything here needs to change we need a fresh approach and a new voice and direction to our basketball program.

 

[Czar]

Just to discuss this line of reasoning...
Those teams will all still finish at the top of the league. Whether they lost playing m2m is irrelevant, since no one is suggesting m2m is the formula for an undefeated season. I didn't watch all those games, but what was the defense played AGAINST those losing teams? If it was zone, then there's something to think about.

"Why does anyone think we'll have success." I don't think it's reasonable to think we'll have "success" by switching to man this year. We haven't been able to play it for a long time for some reason. We used to be pretty successful playing, so i don't know what changed other than a complete philosophy change. But, why might we have success? It's not a matter of a thousand forum 'experts' saying we should do it. If (guessing) 92% of college coaches—people who spend their entire lives playing, learning, then coaching, and have their livelihoods dependent upon their successes—have 'studied/assessed' the matter and decided that m2m is the best 'foundation' defense for their programs, then why is it so ludicrous for us to suggest that it's possibly better for us, as well? Because our identity has morphed into us being zone-exclusive? Our identity wasn't forged by zone. Our brand became that, after we had already built and established ourselves.

It's not even a matter of in-game stats. There's a more global effect to what defense we play. We used to be a fast, show-time, up and down, high-flying, scoring team. Gradually, we've become a slow, low-scoring, half-court-inept team. Sorta coincided with the switch to being exclusively zone. And our recruiting, where we used to be in the mix for top 10 kids has slipped to where we're grateful for a 25th-ranked kid, and surprised to still be on a list for someone higher. What changed? With recent final fours, we still aren't a major player for the bigger names? We get kids like Lydon and convince ourselves that we're skilled at finding diamonds in the rough, or that we want who the staff wants, or that our kids are downgraded and Kentucky/Duke kids get ratings boosts. Or, that ratings don't matter at all. Until we get smacked in the mouth, and we can't score from under the hoop, or we can't beat anyone off the dribble, or we aren't athletic enough to switch to man to man, or we can't finish, or we no longer fast break, or we don't dunk, or we don't alley-oop anymore... Zone affects recruiting. It just does. No, there are no links, stats, or whitepapers to prove it. Even if there were, denyers would deny.

Our brand is not what it was. I wish i had the kind of memory that allowed me to reflect back to 2013(?) and how fantastic we were and how we shoulda won it all... But, i still wouldn't see how that helps us. How that's constructive, toward recognizing problems that exist now. Gratitude and perspective are great. Maybe they help some of us through rough patches. And maybe some people take past success as a predictor of future success. But, we are in flux, and whatever there was that 'ensured' consistency in a relative sense over the past years is either no longer a given, or is nothing to take for granted going forward.

Whatever is happening, we're struggling as a team, the fanbase is suffering, and we're all just here commiserating. Luckily, this isn't football. One player/recruit can transform 'the franchise.' We have an arena that is an asset rather than a liability. We have a more recent history of success, and a prominent alum. But, even Carmelo isn't paying off as much as i would hope. Maybe his time of influence is done/waning. Which also concerns me. When he's done, if we don't have NBAers starting and playing important minutes for prime teams, that'll be another recruiting negative. Lots of considerations factor into a 16-17 year old kid's decisions. I'm not suggesting that any one of these things is a death knell. But, if you're a top recruit, and you take the simple Pro/Con or Plus/Minus checklist as a map toward choosing a college, it's hard for me to see how we're not fighting a bit more uphill than we've been used to.

I would like to take this comment out to a nice steak dinner.

 

[Czar]

Imo the University is going to have to loosen purse strings in coming years for SU to get on rock solid ground again post JB and in the acc era. Does the U have the ability to do that or would it have to be mostly Melo type donations?

God knows the best move if revenue is threatened with basketball gate receipts, is to get stingy with paying a new coach. That's a winning move.

If the SU admins actually think like that then yeah, we'll be in trouble.

 

[two3zone]

Not sure who looks more defeated, the team or JB.

 

[IthacaMatt]

How games have you won?

Sorry, but that's a bullsht argument. It's not like this is football, where it's difficult for ordinary fans to really see and understand the line play, or what defenses look like from the QB's point of view. Basketball is a pretty simple sport. Everything is right there for you to see. Criticism is generally more insightful from the every day fan in hoops than in other sports. There are only 5 guys out there to watch.

The only thing we aren't seeing is what happens in practice.

 

[Alsacs]

Sorry, but that's a bullsht argument. It's not like this is football, where it's difficult for ordinary fans to really see and understand the line play, or what defenses look like from the QB's point of view. Basketball is a pretty simple sport. Everything is right there for you to see. Criticism is generally more insightful from the every day fan in hoops than in other sports. There are only 5 guys out there to watch.

The only thing we aren't seeing is what happens in practice.

Just an FYI it was a joke comment in response to what another poster will use when defending any criticism of the HC.
He isn't above criticism. Was the point of my How many games have you won comment.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It wasn't good offense, you're right - I think we scored enough to win that game though. There's nothing wrong with a player or 2 going off and carrying you to 70 points - it's not ideal, but in years past that'd be enough for us to get the W.

You know more than I do about the inner workings of this team. It's obvious something is off. You would hope that 1 player wouldn't derail the whole team, but it appears that is the case right now?

The one player, IMO, is the head coach. He has gone way too negative. He's lost the whole team. It's not just a guy or two.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Just an FYI it was a joke comment in response to what another poster will use when defending any criticism of the HC.
He isn't above criticism. Was the point of my How many games have you won comment.

Sorry. I wondered that for a moment, if you were being sarcastic.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I know what you mean but there were stretches when JSuth was raining down 3s that our offense was very effective in 2013. And then last year when G, Mal and Cooney got going at same time our offense was impressive last year, ie in elite 8 and bahamas. But we just cant keep it going consistently. Ie when JSuth was hot against iu and maquette, SU was dominant. But then he went cold against mich and it was over. Same with G, Mal, TC- they never got hot together for more than 2 games in a row

The problem is because we don't usually feed the post and have any balance on offense. Rak's season was an outlier. Before that, we haven't had a scoring center in the post since Arinze and Rick. Before that, you have to go back to Etan Thomas. Three or four players in 17 seasons is clearly imbalanced and points to shortcomings of our offensive approach. Teaching a drop step and a jump hook isn't that freaking difficult.

 

[IthacaMatt]

IMO our offensive system is more out of date than our defensive system. But the question is can we have a modern offense with a zone defense.

Also IMO everything here needs to change we need a fresh approach and a new voice and direction to our basketball program.

Has everyone forgotten the way we used to run teams out of the gym from the zone???
The zone is built for transition basketball - except we can't seem to run anymore.
We haven't done that since Ennis. Ennis ruined our fast break.

 

[tbonezone]

we used to feast on the fast break.

 

[br801]

Has everyone forgotten the way we used to run teams out of the gym from the zone???
The zone is built for transition basketball - except we can't seem to run anymore.
We haven't done that since Ennis. Ennis ruined our fast break.

If you can't get it done on the defensive glass, and you can't force turnovers out of your zone or through occasional pressure, your transition opportunities will be few and far between.

 

[OrangePA]

when you say UK "spent" their way to the successful Cal era, I don't think player amenities are what helped Kentucky.

Or, perhaps, one would better describe it by saying player "amenities" helped Kentucky.

Either way, Kentucky's methods are not prescriptive for Syracuse.

The same thing that worked at UMass and Memphis has worked at UK - Calipari somehow gets players.

How does he do it?????

 

[Fly Rodder]

Syracuse doesn't need to recruit like Kentucky or duke to be successful. But whatever they've been doing the last few years needs to change because it's not working.

 

[Townie72]

Talk about "simple-minded..."
If a team goes 3-12 from 3 against you, but shoots 55% from 2 because you've overcommitted to the perimeter, your 25% 3pt defense statistic is pretty much meaningless. And that's just the simplest explanation for why a single statistic, without greater context, is insignificant.

Point was, though, that a horrendous BC team, with losses to Fairfield, Hartford, and Harvard, and who had not won an ACC game in forever... came in with the same 3pt defensive percentage statistic as we did. And what was the result today?

OK.

Lets take a look at SU defensive performance against all shooting.

Yup. just as I thought. SU is one of the top clubs using this statistic.

Not this year ... but through several years of Zone only.

The facts and statistics support the decision to go all Zone.

But that's not enough for the frustrated and emotional on here are lashing out and who want to replace the coach, the coach-in-waiting, the offensive and defensive schemes and the players who were erroneously recruited for the wrong reasons..

They attempt to justify this with a sheer patina of logic. But it's pretty obvious that they are letting their emotions run away with them.

A word of advice. Don't quit your day jobs to pursue a career as an AD or an NBA GM.

 

[Townie72]

Syracuse doesn't need to recruit like Kentucky or duke to be successful. But whatever they've been doing the last few years needs to change because it's not working.

That would be "change for the sake of change"?

Now I'm guessing that you'd find change that produced worse results unacceptable. (Think SU football.) You just want a change that improves results. Right.

But how do you know what you are going to get.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

OK.

Lets take a look at SU defensive performance against all shooting.

Yup. just as I thought. SU is one of the top clubs using this statistic.

Not this year ... but through several years of Zone only.

The facts and statistics support the decision to go all Zone.

But that's not enough for the frustrated and emotional on here are lashing out and who want to replace the coach, the coach-in-waiting, the offensive and defensive schemes and the players who were erroneously recruited for the wrong reasons..

They attempt to justify this with a sheer patina of logic. But it's pretty obvious that they are letting their emotions run away with them.

A word of advice. Don't quit your day jobs to pursue a career as an AD or an NBA GM.

Can you provide any of the actual data?

A word of advice for you. Stop giving unsolicited advice.

 

[tbonezone]

"That would be "change for the sake of change"?

if zone only worked so great then every coach in america would do it. 99 % don't. ergo...the sheer patina of logic.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

"That would be "change for the sake of change"?

if zone only worked so great then every coach in america would do it. 99 % don't. ergo...the sheer patina of logic.

99% aren't as succesful as JB.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Very true and that speaks to JB's greatness and his legacy. Those are rock solid.

It doesn't speak to the current mess and the future. We are on very shaky ground there.

Exactly- Stop with the past. Look at the current state of this program. We are in a potential big hole here. There really is not much to look forward to whatsoever with this team. Boeheim is not bigger than the program, time to move on and see what Hopkins can do. Boeheim clearly has no idea what to do this year and things do not look whatsoever to be any better next year (when he is officially done).

 

[We Are Syracuse]

IMO our offensive system is more out of date than our defensive system. But the question is can we have a modern offense with a zone defense.

Also IMO everything here needs to change we need a fresh approach and a new voice and direction to our basketball program.

This. Not even close.