JB's 'Whipping Boy' Technique

[iommi]

Oh the irony. The glorious f###ing irony.

I know, right? I cannot believe he wrote that. Give townie an appreciation trophy for that post. Hysterical.

 

[Townie72]

I understand tough love but on occasion JB crosses the line. He did so during his presser after the Louisville game. That lacked class. In that case tough love looked like outright contempt and nastiness.

There you have it! An actual honest opinion stated forthrightly.

How hard was that?

JB, in bpo57's opinion, exhibits contempt and nastiness towards his players.

If I had that opinion, I don't think I could root for SU basketball even though I am an alum.

By the way, I don't have that same opinion. I trust JB and what he is trying to accomplish.

 

[iommi]

There you have it! An actual honest opinion stated forthrightly.

How hard was that?

JB, in bpo57's opinion, exhibits contempt and nastiness towards his players.

If I had that opinion, I don't think I could root for SU basketball even though I am an alum.

By the way, I don't have that same opinion. I trust JB and what he is trying to accomplish.

Wow, you needed him to type that post? That's what we all think. You have to be trolling. You just have to be. Well done.

 

[Townie72]

Oh the irony. The glorious f###ing irony.

There 's. a difference between JB criticizing his players and internet posters trying to inflate their own egos by caustic comments.

One is an experienced coach trying to be honest with the media and fan base and motivating his players or at least giving the a dose of reality.

The other is fans(?) giving their uneducated and unknowledgeable opinions on a message board.

Hardly comparable.

But have at it. As I have said before, this says more about you than it does JB.

 

[Townie72]

Wow, you needed him to type that post? That's what we all think. You have to be trolling. You just have to be. Well done.

You missed the part about being forthright and honest.

Let's hear what you think is behind JB's criticism and actions that seem to upset you so.

Why are you dodging this?

 

[bpo57]

There you have it! An actual honest opinion stated forthrightly.

How hard was that?

JB, in bpo57's opinion, exhibits contempt and nastiness towards his players.

If I had that opinion, I don't think I could root for SU basketball even though I am an alum.

By the way, I don't have that same opinion. I trust JB and what he is trying to accomplish.

Nah Townie he exhibited contempt and nastiness for one particular player. As a famous sportscaster once said, go to the videotape. It's right there easy to see.

Sorry pal but JB is not above being criticized for his behavior.

 

[bpo57]

There is absolutely insufficient appreciation on here among some as to the importance of JB to the history and the success of the SU basketball program.

Quite simply he IS the program.

When he took it over, the previous coach, Roy Danforth, left SU for a program with greater potential. He went to Tulane.

Let that sink into you brains. Tulane was a better opportunity.

Too many people don't know or understand the history.

Bob Knight and Woody Hayes had even more impressive histories than JB but using your logic it wouldn't have been right to criticize them either.

 

[iommi]

You missed the part about being forthright and honest.

Let's hear what you think is behind JB's criticism and actions that seem to upset you so.

Why are you dodging this?

Okay, I'll play along. I was not dodging the question. As I said, I don't think the why is important. The tactic hasn't worked. That's what I care about. JB can do what he wants (within legal bounds) and doesn't need to justify it. However, like a bad strategic decision JB makes within a game, the way he treats his players can be critiqued.

I think JB keeps it up with Roberson because JB is frustrated that TR keeps doing the same things over and over again he doesn't want him to do. He made fun of his foul shooting, for example, because TR has regressed from the line. He has mocked his outside shooting because JB doesn't think he's a capable shooter and doesn't want him to shoot outside shots. MY issue is the way JB has gone about it. He has been rude to TR, a kid who has frustrated fans like me to no end, by the way. I'm not his coach. I'm just some guy with an Internet connection.

I was concerned that TR would not be what we hoped he'd be very early on at SU. I watched TR play in high school and thought he had a ton of potential. Then I saw how quiet and reserved he was and thought the bright lights might be too much for him. Heck. I was concerned when he was a wreck at his commitment announcement. Okay, the kid is reserved. Plenty of players are quiet and do well but JB started to rip him very early on his time at SU. TR never responded well to that. Yet, JB has kept up the routine. And gotten more coarse about it. It's like JB is getting off on it. On top of that, when TR has had a game like he did at Duke last year, JB has been less than effusive with his praise. So apparently JB doesn't like Roberson. I guess? Why does he have to keep up the public shaming? It just doesn't work. Why not try something else or bite his tongue? JB is stubborn. We know that.

I wonder what Tyler's family thinks of JB's treatment of him?

 

[Townie72]

Bob Knight and Woody Hayes had even more impressive histories than JB but using your logic it wouldn't have been right to criticize them either.

So you pick out two coaching villains to justify these niggling complaints?

To me it seems like whining dressed up like opinions.

 

[bpo57]

So you pick out two coaching villains to justify these niggling complaints?

To me it seems like whining dressed up like opinions.

Sorry the point flew right over your head.

 

[iommi]

So you pick out two coaching villains to justify these niggling complaints?

To me it seems like whining dressed up like opinions.

Two coaching villains, who just happened to be abusive. If Mike Rice had 1,000 wins, would that have justified HIS behavior?

 

[Alsacs]

Bullies got to bully.

 

[Townie72]

Okay, I'll play along. I was not dodging the question. As I said, I don't think the why is important. The tactic hasn't worked. That's what I care about. JB can do what he wants and doesn't need to justify it. Howvefe, like a bad strategic decision JB makes within a game, the way he treats his players can be critiqued.

I think JB keeps it up with Roberson because JB is frustrated that TR keeps doing the same things over and over again he doesn't want him to do. He made fun of his foul shooting, for example, because TR has regressed from the line. He has mocked his outside shooting because JB doesn't think he's a capable shooter and doesn't want him to shoot outside shots. MY issue is the way JB has gone about it. He has been rude to TR, a kid who has frustrated fans like me to no end, by the way. I'm not his coach. I'm just some guy with an Internet connection.

I was concerned that TR would not be what we hoped he'd be very early on at SU. I watched TR play in high school and thought he had a ton of potential. Then I saw how quiet and reserved he was and thought the bright lights might be too much for him. Heck. I was concerned when he was a wreck at his commitment announcement. Okay, the kid is reserved. Plenty of players are quiet and do well but JB started to rip him very early on his time at SU. TR never responded well to that. Yet, JB has kept up the routine. And gotten more coarse about it. It's like JB is getting off on it. On top of that, when TR has had a game like he did at Duke last year, JB has been less than effusive with his praise. So apparently JB doesn't like Roberson. I guess? Why does he have to keep up the public shaming? It just doesn't work. Why not try something else or bite his tongue? JB is stubborn. We know that.

I wonder what Tyler's family thinks of JB's treatment of him?

no wonder you didn't want to respond. From all that justification of your position, I derive its all just second guessing and ascribing base motives to JB.

To you the tactic hasn't worked. You are getting that your TV screen, right? So what do you suggest? Stop trying? Or your brilliant suggestion of "try something else.

JB is stubborn? That's an oft heard complaint. It's usually voiced when someone gets frustrated while watching from home with a Genessee and a bowl of Cheetos in front of them and wants to know why we are allowing the other team to shoot three's and not switch to a M2M defense.

And thanks for the attempt at tugging the heartstrings with that bit about Tyler's family.

I don't know. Maybe they are yelling, "Tell em, coach. He won't listen to us either".

And on his foul shooting. What JB said was that he knew he wasn't going to make those shots. Just a little honesty from someone who has been doing these Pressers for 41 years.

 

[orangenirvana]

While disturbing at times, it can also be amusing. In a recent game, Tyler Lydon made a bad TO and JB exploded and called time. As Tyler approached, he looked right past him and began screaming at TR. For what reason? Only Jimmy knows.

"Only Jimmy knows"? Roberson clumsily led the rebound slip through his hands and go out of bounds.

Where is all this whining about JB being too mean coming from? Did he tear into Roberson in the Louisville post-game? Because he only said positive things about Roberson after the last two or three games prior.

 

[Townie72]

Bullies got to bully.

Another honest opinion.

I like it.

In my day "bullying" involved either your lunch money or an azzwhipping or the threat of one.

Now, in more effete times, it includes not including someone at your lunch table.

Why would you root for a team --- if that's what you are doing --- and believe the coach is a bully?

I honestly don't get that concept.

 

[Alsacs]

no wonder you didn't want to respond. From all that justification of your position, I derive its all just second guessing and ascribing base motives to JB.

To you the tactic hasn't worked. You are getting that your TV screen, right? So what do you suggest? Stop trying? Or your brilliant suggestion of "try something else.

JB is stubborn? That's an oft heard complaint. It's usually voiced when someone gets frustrated while watching from home with a Genessee and a bowl of Cheetos in front of them and wants to know why we are allowing the other team to shoot three's and not switch to a M2M defense.

And thanks for the attempt at tugging the heartstrings with that bit about Tyler's family.

I don't know. Maybe they are yelling, "Tell em, coach. He won't listen to us either".

And on his foul shooting. What JB said was that he knew he wasn't going to make those shots. Just a little honesty from someone who has been doing these Pressers for 41 years.

After Trevor Cooney missed that shot against Pitt last year in the ACC tourney. JB wasn't honest to the media and say I didn't thinkCooney was going to make that last 3 point shot to win the game.
Cooney got protection from JB. JB didn't throw Cooney under the bus. He has no problem being critical of Tyler Roberson.
Jim Boeheim has done a lot for SU hoops but he is not god and he is not above being criticized when he is wrong.
His public behavior towards Roberson is a joke.

JB being old and cranky isn't a defense to his public behavior.

For all JB has done for the program the school has been loyal to him.

Find another school who has kept a coach who has put a school on probation twice. There aren't any.
The school has stayed loyal to JB after both incidents. Even though the NCAA blows.

 

[iommi]

Townie wanted me to give a "why" for what JB has been doing. I have no idea why he's been doing it. So I give a possible explanation and he says he's it is to justify my position. I was never trying to figure out why. I just know he's been doing it and it hasn't worked.

I hate using the ignore button but I guess I'm close to having no recourse. It's painfully obvious Townie offers zero value other than unintentional humor.

 

[orange79]

After Trevor Cooney missed that shot against Pitt last year in the ACC tourney. JB wasn't honest to the media and say I didn't thinkCooney was going to make that last 3 point shot to win the game.
Cooney got protection from JB. JB didn't throw Cooney under the bus. He has no problem being critical of Tyler Roberson.
Jim Boeheim has done a lot for SU hoops but he is not god and he is not above being criticized when he is wrong.
His public behavior towards Roberson is a joke.

JB being old and cranky isn't a defense to his public behavior.

For all JB has done for the program the school has been loyal to him.

Find another school who has kept a coach who has put a school on probation twice. There aren't any.
The school has stayed loyal to JB after both incidents. Even though the NCAA blows.

How do you know what JB was thinking?

Maybe he didn't, and maybe he did. You just can't make that assumption to bolster your argument. But was Cooney 'protected' ? Probably. :noidea:

 

[Alsacs]

How do you know what JB was thinking?

Maybe he didn't, and maybe he did. You just can't make that assumption to bolster your argument. But was Cooney 'protected' ? Probably. :noidea:

JB didn't let us know. I would bet Cooney was no better than the 3rd option for that shot.
Gbinije, Richardson, Cooney in that order and that didn't include Lydon.

 

[two3zone]

I think what we are seeing here and in many other similar threads is a generation gap phenomena.a

There is a group on here who cannot stand to see anything that smacks of criticism or meaness. They aren't used to it and they can't stand to witness it.

JB tells reporter, That's a dumb question!"

"Oh, the inhumanity!" They wail.

JB yells at a player too much?

"Why is he doing that?", they say, "I wish he wouldn't.

Trophies es and juice boxes for everyone!

This isn't a trophies and juice box situation. It's called you look like a dipshit being an bitter old man when you constantly pick on the same person over and over justified and sometimes not.

 

[Townie72]

After Trevor Cooney missed that shot against Pitt last year in the ACC tourney. JB wasn't honest to the media and say I didn't thinkCooney was going to make that last 3 point shot to win the game.
Cooney got protection from JB. JB didn't throw Cooney under the bus. He has no problem being critical of Tyler Roberson.
Jim Boeheim has done a lot for SU hoops but he is not god and he is not above being criticized when he is wrong.
His public behavior towards Roberson is a joke.

JB being old and cranky isn't a defense to his public behavior.

For all JB has done for the program the school has been loyal to him.

Find another school who has kept a coach who has put a school on probation twice. There aren't any.
The school has stayed loyal to JB after both incidents. Even though the NCAA blows.

Once again this all boils down to your perception of his treatment of TR and your guesses as to his intent.

If JB was loosing it, as you suggested the University would have eased him out. BB is just too valuable revenue stream for them to not optimize it.

JB'c connection to the two probations is pretty tenuous.

He is old and cranky and that'll a wonderful thing. Freed from the usual concerns he can be honest with the press and everyone else. I stood up and cheered when he said "That's a stupid question."

Finally someone had the balls to point out that the majority of these questions are aimed at developing a controversy or are just outright stupid.

 

[Alsacs]

Once again this all boils down to your perception of his treatment of TR and your guesses as to his intent.

If JB was loosing it, as you suggested the University would have eased him out. BB is just too valuable revenue stream for them to not optimize it.

JB'c connection to the two probations is pretty tenuous.

He is old and cranky and that'll a wonderful thing. Freed from the usual concerns he can be honest with the press and everyone else. I stood up and cheered when he said "That's a stupid question."

Finally someone had the balls to point out that the majority of these questions are aimed at developing a controversy or are just outright stupid.

The school is easing JB out. They announced his retirement publicly 2 years ago.
I love what JB has done for SU Hoops. However I can say his attitude in public critical of players who aren't paid is a joke.
The players don't rip him for getting suspended last year and putting the program thru a tough situation.'
I appreciate JB but don't ballwash away his faults.

 

[OrangeDW]

I would not place much stock in that quote.

Can you come up with a better narrative for use in your highly competitive day job, in response to locker room banter "Hey Dion, I heard you never were good enough to make the starting line-up once at college. Hee, hee, hee. Is that true?"

Not nice what JB did to that kid.

Wait, what? What Boeheim did to Waiters? Scoop and Triche were veteran guards, so they started. Triche had been starting since his freshman year. Waiters didn't "start" but he played equally if not more and was the best player on a team that went 34-3. Then he got drafted 4th. I doubt he has any regrets about going to Cuse or has a problem with what Boeheim "did" to him.

Corey Maggette didn't start in college and got drafted high and had a long, solid pro career. Probably many other examples too.

Also, I don't even remember Boeheim getting on Dion as a sophomore. They butted heads when he was a freshman, and supposedly Boeheim said something about him being the 4th guard the next year after MCW came in. But in that sophomore year, I feel like Boeheim left Dion alone. Dion had gotten himself into great shape and had a great year and we almost always won. Not much to gripe about.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Why does any criticism of JB mean a lack of appreciation for what he's done for the program? Townie is a stage 5 JB clinger. I bet he loved that Men of March documentary with a look inside the Boeheim residence. Nothing Townie hasn't seen from the bushes in their backyard.

The bushes in their backyard. LOL

 

[OrangeDW]

The school is easing JB out. They announced his retirement publicly 2 years ago.
I love what JB has done for SU Hoops. However I can say his attitude in public critical of players who aren't paid is a joke.
The players don't rip him for getting suspended last year and putting the program thru a tough situation.'
I appreciate JB but don't ballwash away his faults.

I will say, I don't get it with Roberson. He is what he is. Limited on O, good rebounder and defender. Seems like a good kid. From the outside, I don't get it.

But I'm not at practice everyday.