JB's 'Whipping Boy' Technique

[OrangeDW]

Corey Maggette only played his Fr. year for Duke and then went pro. He played behind Elton Brand and Shane Battier. Even so, he still started several times.

Get your facts right before you make silly statements.

He was their 6th man. Just like Waiters. Played 18 mpg. Calm down.

 

[OrangeDW]

Thought my explanation was clear.

Once committed to SU, Dion's professional prospects were entirely at the mercy of JB. Even though he knew he was being shafted, he had to return. If he did not, his pro career prospects would be gone. He was wisely advised.

He's now in his 5th year and averaging 15 ppg, but was never good enough to start at SU! What explanation can he use? Should he say he was JB's whipping boy and then be asked to explain why? Or should he continue the fable that it was all part of the coaches noble plan to help him develop - which of course is hogwash. Which story would you use?

He got picked 4th! Everything is fine.

 

[cuseinseattle]

When I think JB whipping boy I automatically think Kueth Duany. Melo took a bad shot? DAMN IT, KUETH!

Me too. As Kueth has said I think coach just likes yelling at me.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I would not place much stock in that quote.

Can you come up with a better narrative for use in your highly competitive day job, in response to locker room banter "Hey Dion, I heard you never were good enough to make the starting line-up once at college. Hee, hee, hee. Is that true?"

Not nice what JB did to that kid.

Why wouldn't you put much stock in it? Dion said that my coach now was challenging me and getting after me and that really helped. I have always responded to that. In college Coach Boeheim did the same thing. No one rides you harder than him and I respond to that challenge. I'm paraphrasing.

 

[AZOrange]

People forget how very close Dion was to leaving...

 

[Briancuse]

I think every team that I have ever rooted for I have had a whipping boy.

 

[two3zone]

You didn't get any participation trophies for youth sports did you? Just curious.

Not at all, earned them from working my ass off in everything I did without some old guy trashing me.

I answer your questions, why do you deflect mine?

 

[kcsu]

There is absolutely insufficient appreciation on here among some as to the importance of JB to the history and the success of the SU basketball program.
Danforth actually built the program. He was a great coach. Check out Roys Runts.

Quite simply he IS the program.

When he took it over, the previous coach, Roy Danforth, left SU for a program with greater potential. He went to Tulane.

Let that sink into you brains. Tulane was a better opportunity.

Too many people don't know or understand the history.

 

[tbonezone]

i have no problem how JB handles his players at practice ,on the bench or even the locker room. whatever works. i maintain as i have in hundreds of posts that you do not trash your own players to the press. ever!

 

[RF2044]

No one style of leadership is going to be effective in all situations, with all players. Doesn't matter if it is business, sports, etc. there is no one size fits all model.
If leadership was easy, then everybody would do it effectively. The most effective leaders recognize when to switch things up--not all people respond to the same type of leadership, they aren't motivated by the same things, and sometimes even when you have high performing individuals / teams, situational factors demand course correction. Being a rah rah coach isn't great for every situation, nor is being a people person "right" for all situations.

Back when I used to live in Syracuse, I used to go to a TON of preseason practices. Year after year, it was interesting to see how JB handled the team, and which players seemed to attract his ire. The funny thing is, for all of the names people can bring up who clashed with his style, there are many more who thrived on it.

Players like Rony Seikaly, Paul Harris, etc. couldn't handle his style, and took the criticism personally. They just didn't resonate with JB's approach, and often overtly challenge him back which leads to a vicious cycle, because then JB focuses more of his "attention" on them.

Others like Jason Hart, Allen Griffin, Kueth Duany, etc. took it in stride, used it as motivation, and let it roll off their backs. Guys like Hart actually thrived on it, because he was so self-driven to improve and maximize that JB's sardonic wit was just another log for him to throw on his self-fueled fire. These guys took it and did well despite of it.

I think that there are also some who fall into a middle category--I think a guy like Tyler Roberson fits into this category. It hasn't destroyed his psyche, but I don't think he connects with JB's approach toward handling him.

Bottom line: I wish that JB did some things differently. His style has some drawbacks, but so do everybody else's. When the team is winning, the players inevitably seem to take things in stride a little easier, whereas things seem magnified when the team isn't as successful.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I think what we are seeing here and in many other similar threads is a generation gap phenomena.a

There is a group on here who cannot stand to see anything that smacks of criticism or meaness. They aren't used to it and they can't stand to witness it.

JB tells reporter, That's a dumb question!"

"Oh, the inhumanity!" They wail.

JB yells at a player too much?

"Why is he doing that?", they say, "I wish he wouldn't.

Trophies es and juice boxes for everyone!

This isn't about kids accepting criticism. It's about a 70+ year old man berating and humiliating a 20 year old kid. Frankly, In my opinion JB has crossed the line more than once with TR and it's a wonder that he hasn't been told by the AD to cool it, especially when it's patently clear that it hasn't had any positive impact.

We are going to agree to disagree here but I've never thought this was right.

 

[SyracuseTD]

I bet Tyler Roberson always thinks "I should have went to Kansas"

 

[manleyzoo]

There is absolutely insufficient appreciation on here among some as to the importance of JB to the history and the success of the SU basketball program.

Quite simply he IS the program.

When he took it over, the previous coach, Roy Danforth, left SU for a program with greater potential. He went to Tulane.

Let that sink into you brains. Tulane was a better opportunity.

Too many people don't know or understand the history.

Danforth left in part because he wanted to go back to the south. He played at Southern Mississippi for Fred Lewis and expressed a desire to go back. And the Tulane job opened up. Both SU's and Tulane's programs were regional at the time, ours was growing, there's no so much.

 

[Townie72]

Danforth left in part because he wanted to go back to the south. He played at Southern Mississippi for Fred Lewis and expressed a desire to go back. And the Tulane job opened up. Both SU's and Tulane's programs were regional at the time, ours was growing, there's no so much.

Danforth retired to Osterville, Mass. Apparently he didn' t miss the South much.

 

[manleyzoo]

Anybody that's ever played any sport at any level, but particularly at the higher levels, knows that the worst thing that can happen to you is when a coach ignores you - it means they've concluded you aren't going to get any better and the coach moves on to players he thinks can get better. Usually players that get the coach's attention are the ones thought to have the potential to be much better. And if you stagnate, the coach gets disappointed and ignores you, which is truly the kiss of death.

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors with the players and the coach. For all anyone knows, Boeheim has communicated to Roberson that he's going to ride him like a mule publicly and Roby has said that's what he needs, go for it. Does it make me cringe a bit when I see it on tv? Of course. But the fact is no one knows their dynamic when no one is looking. Unless you're in that locker room or a fly on the wall in closed door meetings between coach and player, no one other than Roby and JB knows.

As for bullying, it's a ridiculous charge...bullying happens among peers. And no one knows if Roby feels humiliated or berated or demeaned. Maybe he does maybe he doesn't.

On Cooney, as I see it Boeheim defended him because he thought he had reached his potential and was doing as best as he could. With Roby, my guess is Boeheim has, and still does, believe that there's much more in the tank. Roby does just enough in some games to spark Boeheim's belief in him and then just not enough to spark his disappointment.

Players look at things very differently than fans.

 

[manleyzoo]

Danforth retired to Osterville, Mass. Apparently he didn' t miss the South much.

Yes that's true about where he retired. But he stayed at Tulane for 19 years, as coach for 6 years, as assistant AD for 5 years and AD for 8 years. He was at SU for 8 seasons, with 4 NCAAs and 2 NITs when the NIT meant something. The best he ever did at Tulane was an NIT. Obv he liked it down there. And obv he didn't make the move because he thought Tulane's program was better than the one he built at SU.

Where you work and where you retire can have nothing to do with one another.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Anybody that's ever played any sport at any level, but particularly at the higher levels, knows that the worst thing that can happen to you is when a coach ignores you - it means they've concluded you aren't going to get any better and the coach moves on to players he thinks can get better. Usually players that get the coach's attention are the ones thought to have the potential to be much better. And if you stagnate, the coach gets disappointed and ignores you, which is truly the kiss of death.

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors with the players and the coach. For all anyone knows, Boeheim has communicated to Roberson that he's going to ride him like a mule publicly and Roby has said that's what he needs, go for it. Does it make me cringe a bit when I see it on tv? Of course. But the fact is no one knows their dynamic when no one is looking. Unless you're in that locker room or a fly on the wall in closed door meetings between coach and player, no one other than Roby and JB knows.

As for bullying, it's a ridiculous charge...bullying happens among peers. And no one knows if Roby feels humiliated or berated or demeaned. Maybe he does maybe he doesn't.

On Cooney, as I see it Boeheim defended him because he thought he had reached his potential and was doing as best as he could. With Roby, my guess is Boeheim has, and still does, believe that there's much more in the tank. Roby does just enough in some games to spark Boeheim's belief in him and then just not enough to spark his disappointment.

Players look at things very differently than fans.

Oh sure...give me a break...JB: Hey Tyler, don't stress about today's press conference when I say that if I had anyone else you'd never play...

Please...

 

[manleyzoo]

Oh sure...give me a break...JB: Hey Tyler, don't stress about today's press conference when I say that if I had anyone else you'd never play...

Please...

You've got no idea what they talk about. No one does.

 

[tbonezone]

"No one knows what goes on behind closed doors with the players and the coach. For all anyone knows, Boeheim has communicated to Roberson that he's going to ride him like a mule publicly and Roby has said that's what he needs, go for it. "

yeah ok 50 shades of orange .think we sane people all can agree that conversation never took place.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

You've got no idea what they talk about. No one does.

Your thesis is absolutely rediculous...wow...

 

[Scooch]

Pro is different than college, but I've had the pleasure of watching two of the greats in following my pro teams: Bill Belichick and Terry Francona. Neither trashes players when speaking to the media. Both have scores of players who are deeply loyal to them even after they've been cut or unceremoniously traded. I find that instructive.

Ripping kids in public is the one thing I've always found deeply troubling about JB. It's unnecessary. And the proof of that is the many great coaches who don't do it.

 

[Scooch]

FWIW, I've managed lots of people in my professional life and not once have I ever trashed a staff member of mine to someone in another business unit, and certainly never, ever in an open forum. I deal with things in house.

And before someone tells me that sports and business are different things, please tell all those coaches who make banking sharing their leadership techniques with corporations. They seem to disagree.

 

[manleyzoo]

Your thesis is absolutely rediculous...wow...

You have a fan's perspective. That's obv very different than a coach and player.

 

[manleyzoo]

"No one knows what goes on behind closed doors with the players and the coach. For all anyone knows, Boeheim has communicated to Roberson that he's going to ride him like a mule publicly and Roby has said that's what he needs, go for it. "

yeah ok 50 shades of orange .think we sane people all can agree that conversation never took place.

And you know this how? You're a fan, they're player and coach. You're guessing but you don't know anything about their relationship.

 

[tbonezone]

think about chris webber and the N.C. game. there's 2 ways to handle that. the right way and the wrong.