JB's 'Whipping Boy' Technique

[manleyzoo]

think about chris webber and the N.C. game. there's 2 ways to handle that. the right way and the wrong.

That's not even close to comparable.

 

[Bayside44]

The TR foul shot comment was just honest - he'd sound foolish if he said he expected TR to make them. He didn't say TR didn't try, concentrate, whatever, guy's just a bad foul shooter, I mean there's a stat line for that.

 

[JoeySimz]

So many internet posters are here assigning emotions and intent to people they don't know. Then they color it with their sense of morality and make weak correlations that only reveal their own bias.

 

[tbonezone]

That's not even close to comparable.

what's not comparable ? saying he can't make free throws or saying i told him we had no timeouts ?
if you want total honesty then put it out there. my point is always defend your players in public.
pointing out their errors to everybody accomplishes nothing positive. in fact it breeds the opposite effect.

 

[manleyzoo]

what's not comparable ? if you want total honesty put it out there. my point is always defend your players.

I get that's your point. But if you want to make an accurate analogy compare regular season game to same and star player to same. That would be accurate.

As for defending your players, Boeheim's 10 effin games is the pantheon of that.

 

[tbonezone]

say a player underperforms. or a player misses an assignment. or even misses a ft. that's the coaches fault.

 

[two3zone]

You have a fan's perspective. That's obv very different than a coach and player.

I look at this from a common sense perspective. I played sports, I manage a company and have 85 employees, and studied psychology is college. I don't know what is going on in the locker room but from what I've witnessed and have reports of there is far more evidence that JB is pouncing on the kid more than he is trying to motivate him.

I very well could be wrong but I don't think I am.

 

[two3zone]

The TR foul shot comment was just honest - he'd sound foolish if he said he expected TR to make them. He didn't say TR didn't try, concentrate, whatever, guy's just a bad foul shooter, I mean there's a stat line for that.

I had no faith he'd make them either. Then again I wouldn't have had him in the game.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I look at this from a common sense perspective. I played sports, I manage a company and have 85 employees, and studied psychology is college. I don't know what is going on in the locker room but from what I've witnessed and have reports of there is far more evidence that JB is pouncing on the kid more than he is trying to motivate him.

I very well could be wrong but I don't think I am.

I've heard the same. There is no motivating going on when it comes to TR.

 

[Scooch]

The TR foul shot comment was just honest - he'd sound foolish if he said he expected TR to make them. He didn't say TR didn't try, concentrate, whatever, guy's just a bad foul shooter, I mean there's a stat line for that.

It is delicious seeing JB rip someone's free throw shooing, though. A guy who basically hasn't cared about free throw shooting for 41 years.

And before someone jumps in with the obvious reply, yes I know SU practices lots of free throws. I swim in my pool in the summer too, doesn't mean I'm Michael Phelps.

 

[Bayside44]

It is delicious seeing JB rip someone's free throw shooing, though. A guy who basically hasn't cared about free throw shooting for 41 years.

And before someone jumps in with the obvious reply, yes I know SU practices lots of free throws. I swim in my pool in the summer too, doesn't mean I'm Michael Phelps.

This is being belabored while we are screwing up the GT game, but he was just honest on that one.

 

[Cheriehoop]

It is delicious seeing JB rip someone's free throw shooing, though. A guy who basically hasn't cared about free throw shooting for 41 years.

And before someone jumps in with the obvious reply, yes I know SU practices lots of free throws. I swim in my pool in the summer too, doesn't mean I'm Michael Phelps.

What are you talking about? Please link with the proof where JB doesn't care about free throws? Did he tell you that? Not pointing you out Scooch but this board gets more unreadable every day with posters trying to top the other- bashing players, coaches , university.

 

[AZOrange]

What are you talking about? Please link with the proof where JB doesn't care about free throws? Did he tell you that? Not pointing you out Scooch but this board gets more unreadable every day with posters trying to top the other- bashing players, coaches , university.

Without bashing coaches I do worry about our fundamental development. There's just stuff we do (lots of one handed passing for instance) that worries me about attention to detail in practice.

 

[Scooch]

What are you talking about? Please link with the proof where JB doesn't care about free throws? Did he tell you that? Not pointing you out Scooch but this board gets more unreadable every day with posters trying to top the other- bashing players, coaches , university.

In the past five seasons here is SU's national rank for FT %:

2015-16: 217th
2014-15: 284th
2013-14: 151st
2012-13: 235th
2011-12: 152nd

Of course JB would not say he that doesn't care about free throws. I know we practice free throws. But SU historically has been mediocre to below average at shooting free throws. Perhaps JB does not factor that skill highly when recruiting players. Perhaps he would rather spend more time on teaching zone defense. I'm sympathetic to the fact that practice time is limited and you have to proioritize accordingly. All I know is that for whatever reason JB does not often put strong free throw shooting teams on the floor.

So yes, I find it curious for him to bash a players free throw shooting when he doesn't seem to value that skill as much as other programs. The numbers bear that out.

 

[orange2win]

Also notable, if you remove the two transfers - Gillon 86% and White 82% - who learned their FT shooting skills elsewhere, this year's team FT shooting percentage would be way down there in the cellar, just like usual.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Last year we had Cooney and Richardson , both good ft shooters.

If you remove Roberson's ft stats this year, despite his limited minutes, SU's team ft % goes up .19% (from .715 to .734) and last year in 2015-2016 our team ft% average increases .17% from .688 to .705.(and our ranking to about 145)

In 2014-2015 we had 3 poor ft shooters, McCollough (.563) Gbinije (.571) and Roberson (.643). It's amazing how even one bad free throw shooter effects the team stats less two or three bad ones.

Arinze had 385 ft attempts in his 4 years and made only 152 (.395), tough for a team to make up for a high volume free throw shooter with such a dismal %.

 

[Scooch]

Last year we had Cooney and Richardson , both good ft shooters.

If you remove Roberson's ft stats this year, despite his limited minutes, SU's team ft % goes up .19% (from .715 to .734) and last year in 2015-2016 our team ft% average increases .17% from .688 to .705.(and our ranking to about 145)

In 2014-2015 we had 3 poor ft shooters, McCollough (.563) Gbinije (.571) and Roberson (.643). It's amazing how even one bad free throw shooter effects the team stats less two or three bad ones.

Arinze had 385 ft attempts in his 4 years and made only 152 (.395), tough for a team to make up for a high volume free throw shooter with such a dismal %.

This is why I looked back over 5 years, not just one. I could've gone back further. Other teams are affected by the same dynamic of having a couple players drive the team FT % up or down. And yet 150-250 of those teams consistently shoot better than we do.

Of all the critiques of JB I didn't think FT shooting would be the controversial one.

Do I need to preface everything with "JB is an all-time great, forever grateful he stayed at SU, etc, etc, etc"?

 

[RF2044]

This is why I looked back over 5 years, not just one. I could've gone back further. Other teams are affected by the same dynamic of having a couple players drive the team FT % up or down. And yet 150-250 of those teams consistently shoot better than we do.

Of all the critiques of JB I didn't think FT shooting would be the controversial one.

Do I need to preface everything with "JB is an all-time great, forever grateful he stayed at SU, etc, etc, etc"?

Yes you do, hater.

 

[elimunelson]

I love that JB rips these guys a new one. He's the coach, no one put a gun to their head to come to Syracuse. They know what coach is all about. He's a tough SOB who screams, yells, mopes, picks his nose, etc. That's Boeheim in a nutshell. Oh and he gets 4 and 5 star guys to fawn over him and ask to be picked to come here yearly. Don't change Jimmy. Just because the world is changing doesn't mean the screaming and yelling has to. A scholarship comes with some strings. At syracuse it means getting yelled at in front of 30k if you do something wrong. Oh the humanity.

Free throw wise, i always assume we will stink at them. I've been following since the late 80s. When we are good at them i feel like i'm stealing.

 

[Ghost]

On Cooney, as I see it Boeheim defended him because he thought he had reached his potential and was doing as best as he could. With Roby, my guess is Boeheim has, and still does, believe that there's much more in the tank. Roby does just enough in some games to spark Boeheim's belief in him and then just not enough to spark his disappointment.

Yeah, but in this instance it was a hustle play that put us in a position to tie it. 50% free throw shooter... He missed, gonna happen probably around half the time. Lol

TC was about a 0% shooter in end game situations and would never, ever, ever be criticized for a miss. Which is fantastic, kid gave it all every minute, why rip him in a presser for that? But, a Robey free throw was prolly more likely to drop - do we really need to poke him for it? Doubtful. Lol

 

[Orangello]

When people don't do what they are told to do in the military, people sometimes die.

People in the military are much more likely to die when they actually do what they are told to do.

 

[samspann1]

This is why I looked back over 5 years, not just one. I could've gone back further. Other teams are affected by the same dynamic of having a couple players drive the team FT % up or down. And yet 150-250 of those teams consistently shoot better than we do.

Of all the critiques of JB I didn't think FT shooting would be the controversial one.

Do I need to preface everything with "JB is an all-time great, forever grateful he stayed at SU, etc, etc, etc"?

Did you know that JB is a Hall of Famer?

 

[RoysRunts]

In JB's defense, the system is used by the military at boot camps as drill sergeants try to jolt new recruits into line. However, the system changes after boot camp.

It has been JB's thing from the beginning, but to keep this post shorter, I'll just discuss his targets over the last decade. They include Paul Harris, Mookie Jones, Dion Waiters and now Tyler Roberson.

There is commonality here. All come from tough inner city neighborhoods and so are not used to taking lip from anyone (obstinate?). All were top prospects - 4 or 5 star (high expectations?). All were hotly pursued (high egos?). All nearly went elsewhere (unsure?).

The problem with the technique is that it really didn't change the kids. Praise, smoke blowing, encouragement, would surely have yielded more positive results.

While disturbing at times, it can also be amusing. In a recent game, Tyler Lydon made a bad TO and JB exploded and called time. As Tyler approached, he looked right past him and began screaming at TR. For what reason? Only Jimmy knows.

JB hates to be challenged about this technique. He gets very angry at just the mention of it. Too bad, I'd like to hear him explain why he thinks it works.

Lets have a Contest to name them thru the years. Usually a Heafty center but mostly Forwards..Very few Guards until recent memory. OK I'll go 1st Ron Payton..79

 

[Townie72]

People in the military are much more likely to die when they actually do what they are told to do.

Of the 50,000 deaths in Vietnam, 10,000 were non-combat related. Lots of these were related to people not following instructions or being careless.

Of course if this doesn't give with your military experience or 917's, I'd like to hear about it.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Of the 50,000 deaths in Vietnam, 10,000 were non-combat related. Lots of these were related to people not following instructions or being careless.

Of course if this doesn't give with your military experience or 917's, I'd like to hear about it.

You might be more stubborn that Jimmy B.

you're a legend