Last Jedi Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

[Guinness]

Having re-watched the original 3 movies over the break they all suffer from the same issues the current new movies do. Large plot holes, whiny Luke, bad humor, Mary Sue Luke, a villain who isn't the real villain, unrealistic chase scenes (empire and millennium falcon), a Jedi who flirts with the dark side, etc..

The only difference was I saw them originally as a kid and was unconcerned with the issues because I was 10. I think people need to remember that these films are ultimately made for the kids and not the fan boys. They are made to hook the next generation of kids.

I think my generation has romanticized the original trilogy to an unrealistic point and are holding the new films to an unreachable standard.

 

[DoubleDee]

As seen in my thread regarding showing all the movies to all the kids in my family, watching the original three did stir up some conversations regarding story, horrid acting and the such. We just started the prequels and they all sat there like “What is this ish?”.

For the record, they LOVE the three newest. I think this is what it’s about.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The one thing that article does get right if nothing else, is the immediate reaction thing. If Empire had been terrible, so what? We would have been no more disappointed then we were with AOTC or Batman Forever. We walk out, and say “that was a waste of money” and go on with our lives. On to the next one. If you hate TLJ, cross your fingers, and on to the next one. Why can’t people just move on? Find something else to do. Don’t like a show? Turn the frickin channel!

If you are unhappy with these films, be unhappy. Today, everyone wants to get involved, and beat their chest, and say “I don’t like the new Star Wars movie, and you’re going to do something about it!” Like the petition. Just dumb.

Everyone needs to spout off about every little thing in life. Literally everything from the President, to the #metoo movement, to Star Wars. Maybe we should have a MILLION STAR WARS FAN MARCH on capital hill, and wear our cloaks, and our leia buns, and make stupid-ass signs?

I just don’t get the outrage. It’s a movie. I’m a huge fan, always have been. But if I’m ever disgusted with the franchise, I’ll pick up a hobby or something. Not spend my life complaining about it or trying to change it.

This is a quality rant. Well done.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Having re-watched the original 3 movies over the break they all suffer from the same issues the current new movies do. Large plot holes, whiny Luke, bad humor, Mary Sue Luke, a villain who isn't the real villain, unrealistic chase scenes (empire and millennium falcon), a Jedi who flirts with the dark side, etc..

The only difference was I saw them originally as a kid and was unconcerned with the issues because I was 10. I think people need to remember that these films are ultimately made for the kids and not the fan boys. They are made to hook the next generation of kids.

I think my generation has romanticized the original trilogy to an unrealistic point and are holding the new films to an unreachable standard.

Yeah. The original trilogy is kind of meh. It really is.

 

[DoubleDee]

Yeah. The original trilogy is kind of meh. It really is.

But, it’s awesome.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

But, it’s awesome.

It has high points.

They are very different watching them as an adult.

I think we've got a lot better at movie making since then.

 

[AZOrange]

It has high points.

They are very different watching them as an adult.

I think we've got a lot better at movie making since then.

I mean it was always intended as campy fun. I think people have gotten way too serious about SW and mix canon and non canon concepts. Non canon is far more serious.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Lord of the rings is better

BOOM

Stand by it forever

 

[Day2]

The reason it fell flat to me was:

1. This guy is so in tune with the Force that he can connect Rey and Ren's minds like they're Harry & Voldemort, but at the same time, so out of touch with the Force that he couldn't feel the lightsaber 5 inches from his body being manipulated by the very person that he was focused on?

2. Ren and Rey literally struggled more fighting Snoke's random security guards than they did Snoke.

Saw it again today. Snoke saw what was coming and didn’t see it at the same time. In his own words, he described how Kylo was going to kill Rey, which was exactly how he was killed by Kylo. Here’s the scene (skip to 5:30 and pay attention to how the dialogue matches up with the visuals):

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Lord of the rings is better

BOOM

Stand by it forever

Eh. They're too long. By a lot.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Saw it again today. Snoke saw what was coming and didn’t see it at the same time. In his own words, he described how Kylo was going to kill Rey, which was exactly how he was killed by Kylo. Here’s the scene (skip to 5:30 and pay attention to how the dialogue matches up with the visuals):

And another thing - I'm over Andy Serkis.

OVER

 

[Day2]

Other observations after the second viewing:

1. The chase scene is fully explained and makes sense. The Resistance carrier is lighter and faster than the Destroyers and Snoke’s ship. The TIE fighters can’t pursue without cover. So Hux is content with waiting them out, because he knows they’ll run out of fuel.
2. Switching Leia and Holdo makes sense in terms of Carrie Fisher dying, but it makes little sense within the context of Star Wars. The Resistance is looking for a spark that will give people hope again. Leia sacrificing herself isn’t going to create anything but more dread. She’s a living legend. Now that Luke has done his part, it will be easier for Abrams to come up with a way for Leia to die in IX that will better serve the series.
3. Finn was able to drag Rose back to safety because Kylo was more concerned with blowing up the base and defeating Luke. And the First Order probably figured they died in the crash anyway.
4. When Luke takes Leia’s hand, her reaction reveals what he’s up to. During the duel with Kylo, Luke wields Anakin’s saber, which Kylo just had a hand in destroying. And unlike Kylo, Luke’s movements don’t leave tracks in the red salt.
5. As was the case in TFA, the world is split between Kylo and Rey just before they can kill each other. In TFA, it was the terrain. In TLJ, it’s Anakin’s saber. And moments later, Holdo smashes through Snoke’s ship, cutting it in two.

 

[Day2]

Honest question...what's the rationale for why the First Order's ships, which were intently watching and tracking the Rebel's Fleet (which had dropped from 3 to 1 ships) could not "see" the 50 or so smaller ships that slipped away, but then when alerted by the code-breaker, they were able to pick them up and blast them with 100% accuracy just seconds later?

Don't get it.

Because they weren’t looking for smaller ships until DJ told them to. It’s not so much that they couldn’t see the transports, more like they were unaware.

 

[Day2]

There's also the issue that the whole "We can't shoot them, they're too close to us!" thing has never really been an issue in the franchise before and the technology is supposed to be more advanced now lol. That whole stalemate was pretty silly, and it's basically what the entirety of the plot hinged on.

I think you’re confusing the battle at the beginning with the chase. The dreadnought couldn’t do much about Poe once he took out the cannons. He was too close and too small for the heavy artillery. The premise of the chase was that the Resistance carrier was fast enough to keep a safe distance.

 

[Day2]

I thought the new little animal thingy things were dumb and could be cut out.

IRL that island is overrun with puffins. So the filmmakers had three options:
1. Leave in the puffins.
2. Take them out with CGI.
3. Create a new species with CGI.

Bonus trivia: There’s an entire race of aliens in the new trilogy (and books) named after Beastie Boys albums and songs.

 

[Day2]

The part that doesn't make sense is why they haven't created hyperspace weapons. Take off the collision safety you mentioned that brought the Falcon out of light speed early and just put an asteroid or very massive hunk of metal on the front end of a remotely controlled hyperdrive and you have the ultimate insurgency weapon. Low cost, hard to defend against, very effective against large and expensive ships.

Why didn’t the Wright Bros. invent jet planes?

I viewed Holdo’s kamikaze move as something no one had ever done before. Perhaps now they will weaponize light speed. By no means is it a plot hole that they haven’t done so already.

 

[Day2]

Some notes on Canto Bight and why it’s necessary:
1. The preachy stuff that has been mentioned already. I understand why many of you didn’t care for it, so let’s just get it out of the way.
2. Character development for Finn. This is where he becomes a rebel. In TFA and the beginning of TLJ, he’s only concerned with saving himself and Rey. He’s not part of the Resistance yet, he just knows he doesn’t want to be with the First Order anymore. He even loves Canto Bight upon arrival. But Rose challenges him to look at what’s really going on. That line where he Phasma calls him scum and he corrects her with, “Rebel Scum!” doesn’t work without this arc.
3. We’re introduced to the Force sensitive stable boy.
4. The First Order finds out about the transports only because DJ cut a deal. Otherwise, the Resistance would have escaped and that would have been that.
5. Rose. You may not care for her, but my 7-year-old daughter did. She has one of the most important lines of the movie: “That’s how we’re gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love.” It’s one of the key themes, along with the idea of leaders not being concerned with looking like heroes. Rose also creates the love triangle I know so many of you are excited about.

 

[AZOrange]

Some notes on Canto Bight and why it’s necessary:
1. The preachy stuff that has been mentioned already. I understand why many of you didn’t care for it, so let’s just get it out of the way.
2. Character development for Finn. This is where he becomes a rebel. In TFA and the beginning of TLJ, he’s only concerned with saving himself and Rey. He’s not part of the Resistance yet, he just knows he doesn’t want to be with the First Order anymore. He even loves Canto Bight upon arrival. But Rose challenges him to look at what’s really going on. That line where he Phasma calls him scum and he corrects her with, “Rebel Scum!” doesn’t work without this arc.
3. We’re introduced to the Force sensitive stable boy.
4. The First Order finds out about the transports only because DJ cut a deal. Otherwise, the Resistance would have escaped and that would have been that.
5. Rose. You may not care for her, but my 7-year-old daughter did. She has one of the most important lines of the movie: “That’s how we’re gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love.” It’s one of the key themes, along with the idea of leaders not being concerned with looking like heroes. Rose also creates the love triangle I know so many of you are excited about.

On your second viewing did they show/explain how Rey (and Kylo for that matter) got off the dreadknought? There seemed to be a jump to Crait that I missed. So they’ve both escaped a planet spotting in two and a battleship splitting in two?

 

[RF2044]

On your second viewing did they show/explain how Rey (and Kylo for that matter) got off the dreadknought? There seemed to be a jump to Crait that I missed. So they’ve both escaped a planet spotting in two and a battleship splitting in two?

When Kylo woke up, he asked Hux where Rey was, and they indicated that she escaped in Snoke's personal transport.

 

[Alsacs]

When Kylo woke up, he asked Hux where Rey was, and they indicated that she escaped in Snoke's personal transport.

Didn’t Rey have a com to speak with Chewie on the Falcon when she was ready to escape from the ship?
I am assuming she took a pod on the ship and then communicated with Chewie to jump out of light speed and pick her up.

 

[690West]

I think it's great. People that dislike it most seem to be the people that came in overburdened with expectations.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

VERY Dissappointed. Thought it was, all in all, a 2+ hour commercial for roller coasters and plush toys.
The Luke thing with the force at the end was cool, though.

 

[Trueblue25]

Lord of the rings is better

BOOM

Stand by it forever

Was that even in question??

 

[RandomGuy]

The original star wars changed movies, forever. As a young boy, I remember that I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I had never seen anything like it, nor had my folks. For 1977, it was a visual masterpiece. Still is. There is no way a movie could do that today.

Changed special effects. Even the prequels(I dislike), made cutting edge strides that made movies like the Lord of the Rings possible.

Unrealistic expectations may always follow those of a certain age. My children loved them, 30 years later, even being completely immersed in CGI movies. When they see how bad some special effects were in 80's and early 90's movies? They've understood just how big a deal Star Wars was for wide eyed youngsters in the 70's. They were thrilled with Yoda puppet.

Context, and expectations, are an integral part of the franchise.