Last Night's Loss is 99% on FH...

[FRANKIEFAN]

It’s not Franks fault Buddy gave us nothing and hurt the team. Masons going off like that and he can’t hit a shot? Whatever we lost our best player and weren’t beating anyone this tournament.

 

[longislandcuse]

Your Duke friends didn't say y'all.

We had 69 points off both their defenses, that wasn't the problem. Buddy and Carey should be in a game like that a combined 10 minutes tops.

...but Frank did get suspended, so we weren’t the definitively better team anymore. We were pretty equal to Baylor. It came down to coaching. Drew changed defenses. Boeheim did not.

If people here believe they’d still light us up with Carey in the game (second half when it became overwhelmingly apparent Buddy didn’t have it) and/or throwing a secondary defense at them then so be it... I don’t agree.

 

[Trueblue25]

It’s not Franks fault Buddy gave us nothing and hurt the team. Masons going off like that and he can’t hit a shot? Whatever we lost our best player and weren’t beating anyone this tournament.

Well it’s at least half Frank’s fault that happened and Boeheim felt it best to ride it out.

Also, our best player? Come on.

 

[Day2]

When in, this season, Carey’s visibly been the better defender. Quicker and more athletic. Buddy earned more playing time this season because of his ability to draw defenders to the perimeter and hit threes. Our problem wasn’t really scoring last night. We scored very well despite Buddy having arguably his poorest offensive game of the year. Hughes, Brissettt and Battle were each getting buckets. Our problem was Baylor saw our 1 trick pony and raised us 16 threes and we had no answer other than “there’s no way they can keep this up”.

Carey gave up two of those threes in limited minutes. Plus he turned the ball over again, which Buddy didn't do the entire game.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I’ve talked with friends (UNC & Duke fans) this morning and every single one of them mentioned “I know y’all are a zone team but you don’t have any other defense?”

LOL...UNC and Duke Fans that are friends...

After being subjected to your 27K+ posts, i do totally get why you have no friends that are SU fans and are left having to hang out with the enemy.

When Coach K starting using the zone, when Greg Paulus was there, they called it ORANGE because Coach K learned it from JB. But they used it very sparingly.

It was only after Coach K coached with JB on the Olympic team that he fully embraced the zone as a defense to be used as a standard defense. So, it is actually to JB's credit that Duke plays more than one defense.

Please go back and give THAT history lesson to Dukie V, Jay Williams and your other Dukie friends - courtesy of Forza Azzurri.

Your UNC friends have a point. Dean Smith invented the point zone defense, which has been used by all his successors so UNC does play more than one defense, even though they are mostly a MTM team.

So, half of your "friends" are correct. The UNC ones. The Dukie V ones? not so much.

 

[longislandcuse]

LOL...UNC and Duke Fans that are friends...

After being subjected to your 27K+ posts, i do totally get why you have no friends that are SU fans and are left having to hang out with the enemy.

When Coach K starting using the zone, when Greg Paulus was there, they called it ORANGE because Coach K learned it from JB. But they used it very sparingly.

It was only after Coach K coached with JB on the Olympic team that he fully embraced the zone as a defense to be used as a standard defense. So, it is actually to JB's credit that Duke plays more than one defense.

Please go back and give THAT history lesson to Dukie V, Jay Williams and your other Dukie friends - courtesy of Forza Azzurri.

Your UNC friends have a point. Dean Smith invented the point zone defense, which has been used by all his successors so UNC does play more than one defense, even though they are mostly a MTM team.

So, half of your "friends" are correct. The UNC ones. The Dukie V ones? not so much.

Weird post. I don’t live anywhere near Syracuse so uh, you got me, sweet burn and my fam/friends who are Syracuse fans are of the “Please retire JB” variety, if that helps.

Cool zone lesson though. Has absolutely zero to do with playing 100% zone in 2019.

 

[Bayside44]

...but Frank did get suspended, so we weren’t the definitively better team anymore. We were pretty equal to Baylor. It came down to coaching. Drew changed defenses. Boeheim did not.

If people here believe they’d still light us up with Carey in the game (second half when it became overwhelmingly apparent Buddy didn’t have it on offense/defense) and/or throwing a secondary defense at them then so be it..

Buddy wasn't stopping anyone on defense, and Jalen was out of position when he was in and got called for a charge, so not sure how going man would help.

Baylor shot 54% and 47% from 3, we aren't winning many of those.

 

[Millhouse]

How can you possibly say that?

Eddie Moss
Gene Waldron
Pearl
Sherm
No PG in 1990 - should have been Kenny Anderson who lead GT to final four and likely cost us at least a chance to beat UNLV for all the marbles
Autry
Z
Hart
Griffen
Edelin - cut short
Josh Wrght - Bust
Jonny Flynn
Scoop
MCW
Ennis
Kaleb Joseph - bust

Between 1976 and 2015, we had ONE year without a true point guard - 1990.

And if Bobby Cremins doesn't give the Anderson family a wad of cash, we DO have qa true point guard and are likely playing UNLV that year for the NC (Stevie, DC, Billy, LeRon Ellis, Dave Johnson - are you kdding me with that level of talent AND Kenny Anderson running the point) instead of having Tony, 3-16, Scott (he was John Starks against Houston before anyone knew who John Starks was) shoot us out of the gym against Minnesota.

So, between 1976 and 2015, we really should have had had ZERO years without a true point guard. 40 years - a true point GUARD EVERY FRICKIN YEAR!!!!!

It is only when Ennis decided to leave three years early and Jospeh was a complete BUST that we ended up in a situation in 2015-16 where we had our first season, other than 89-90 under JB in his 40 year coaching career where we did not have a true point guard. And KJ was a true point guard, he was just downright awful.

So, it has really only been the last three years where we have not had a true point guard, and that is due to recruiting misses (KJ being awful and putting all our marbles in Quade Green)

This is typical absolutely terrible posting. Taking a really small sample size, albeit a very recent small sample size, and extrapolating it over JB's entire career.

You, of all people, being a self-professed stats geek should know better.

Most of the rest of the board members, without a math or stats background, who love to do the same thing and take a really small sample size and have it say something meaningful about JB's 40+ year coaching career get more of a pass. As Dino Babers likes to say, "They did not know". You do.

I said "we have a problem". I didn't say "we have always had a problem"

Caleb Joseph bust. Carey it's too soon to say (Narrator: Millhouse thinks he's a bust). Howard and Battle aren't true point guards. Next year, I'm not confident.

I do remember Sherman Douglas, he was great.

I wasn't extrapolating over his whole career.

 

[manleyzoo]

Yeah, cause recruiting misses over the last four years, and not FH's decision to get into the Cannabis business right before the tournament caused last night's loss.

Ok, sparky. You keep posting.

First, you're accusing Frank of weed without any evidence. So, a guy with no instances of hitting the pipe all of a sudden before possibly the last game of his career decides to get baked? Or he gets CBD with THC confused for CBD? Think...a guy who's hurt all season long, can't do what he knows he can do or has done in the past but he plays better in the last two games and announces he's ready to go for the NCAA's. He's looking a competitive advantage so he decides to get loaded just for grins. Gee, why didn't I think of that it makes so much (non)sense.

Second, you're making a team game into the 99% responsibility of one guy but out of generosity give 1% of the blame to supposedly the adult in the room, the guy who could have managed his team a lot better during the season. Your percentages would make sense if switched around. Anyone who's ever played on a team at any level at any age is taught right away that a loss is never one guy's doing. Ever. Your argument is just a bad attempt to cloak more Frank bashing.

 

[longislandcuse]

Where the NBA guys were correct is that in man, you feel your guy. It’s a completely different rhythm than having a guy run at you.

You can’t say Baylor would continue to shoot at that clip against m2m. Even open looks are different because you’re running off screens and expending energy to shake a defender instead of just having to find open areas of the zone.

 

[Day2]

Our players were gassed because our coach refused to develop a bench, and the little bit of bench he had (Carey), he refused to play.

We also could’ve token pressed to disrupt rhythm. Doesn’t take much energy to do that throughout the game. Man to Man for a couple possessions here and there does not zap your energy to irreversible levels.

I really thought after this loss, to a mediocre Baylor, giving up 16 threes would leave the Boeheim apologist crowd without excuses. ...But y’all have outdone yourselves. Frank Howard, who was trashed all year by some of these same posters, and “altitude” is now the reason. Ok, got it.

We had five guards at the start of the season. JB gave Carey multiple opportunities this year, including last night.

Everything is relative. Buddy was a better option than Carey. Frank was better than No Frank. This isn't hard.

Have you played basketball? Have you played basketball without energy? Have you played basketball in Utah or Colorado? The players are not robots. All of their shots were short down the stretch. That means they didn't have anything in their legs. And you wanted them to press more and mix in M2M?

But please, tell me more about what your friends had to say...

 

[Day2]

I will say though, Buddy saved us on multiple fast breaks committing smart fouls. He displayed basketball iq on a team bereft of it.

Part of why he was in there.

 

[longislandcuse]

We had five guards at the start of the season. JB gave Carey multiple opportunities this year, including last night.

Everything is relative. Buddy was a better option than Carey. Frank was better than No Frank. This isn't hard.

Have you played basketball? Have you played basketball without energy? Have you played basketball in Utah or Colorado? The players are not robots. All of their shots were short down the stretch. That means they didn't have anything in their legs. And you wanted them to press more and mix in M2M?

But please, tell me more about what your friends had to say...

You do realize that all of these components fall on the coach, correct?

Preparation - Coach
Recruiting - Coach
Strategy - Coach
Development -Coach
Adjustments - Coach

So you’re really just telling me that Boeheim lost this game before it even started.

 

[Trueblue25]

Carey gave up two of those threes in limited minutes. Plus he turned the ball over again, which Buddy didn't do the entire game.

Buddy was playing the 2 while in, and Carey from what I saw was at pg. Or am I remembering this incorrectly? Genuine question. Is it so risky to sub Jalen in the 2 for 2 minutes to see if we can force a stop/turnover? Have Tyus bring the ball up, that was jb’s game plan anyways. Another issue with our offense is Buddy (and while in Jalen) are relied upon too many times to bail us out on possessions our vets decide to take off. G Mac’s main criticism of Tyus and Hughes have been that they take offensive possessions off.

 

[Day2]

...but Frank did get suspended, so we weren’t the definitively better team anymore. We were pretty equal to Baylor.

Make up your mind. You can't act like we have no business losing to Baylor and then say we were equal five minutes later.

 

[Trueblue25]

Part of why he was in there.

No doubt. I dont mean to come off like I’m ragging on Buddy. Love the year he had, and honestly Marek had just as ineffective a performance imo.

 

[longislandcuse]

Make up your mind. You can't act like we have no business losing to Baylor and then say we were equal five minutes later.

I’ve never said we had no business losing to Baylor.

I said losing Frank made us pretty equal to Baylor, whereas with Frank we were probably better.

In an equal game, coaching comes into play. Drew was better.

I’ll take the “don’t blame JB, blame Frank” excuse against Gonzaga, but I’m not accepting that against Baylor. JB gets some blame for losing to Baylor. Sorry, he just does.

 

[Millhouse]

Buddy was playing the 2 while in, and Carey from what I saw was at pg. Or am I remembering this incorrectly? Genuine question. Is it so risky to sub Jalen in the 2 for 2 minutes to see if we can force a stop/turnover? Have Tyus bring the ball up, that was jb’s game plan anyways. Another issue with our offense is Buddy (and while in Jalen) are relied upon too many times to bail us out on possessions our vets decide to take off. G Mac’s main criticism of Tyus and Hughes have been that they take offensive possessions off.

carey's night was over when he turned into chris elmore.

i don't think people give enough credit to just how terrible carey has been this year. he is not ready, it would have ended poorly and be in his head all winter

 

[Day2]

You do realize that all of these components fall on the coach, correct?

Preparation - Coach
Recruiting - Coach
Strategy - Coach
Development -Coach
Adjustments - Coach

So you’re really just telling me that Boeheim lost this game before it even started.

Nope. Not even close. Which isn't much of a surprise because you didn't directly respond to anything I said.

 

[longislandcuse]

Nope. Not even close. Which isn't much of a surprise because you didn't directly respond to anything I said.

Except, I did.

Our recruiting has been pretty meh, which leads to less good players, and with no development, we have no depth.

Token press is not trunk monkey press. It requires barely any energy. Neither does a grand total of 4-5 possessions of m2m.

We never needed to be in a position to press and drain energy at the end if we didn’t give up, oh, I don’t know, 16 threes.

Carey at least could get in Masons jock to stop one less wide open three than Buddy, especially when he came back in with a bad foot. It was so clear that Buddy was a mess at that point.

Braswell can’t get a few minutes? I suppose not considering you can’t trust a guy who never plays because your coach doesn’t develop a bench.

Do we have zero contingency plan if teams don’t stop making threes? How can that possibly be?

Oh, altitude... Were we told at tip time that Frank was suspended and we were playing in SLC?

So, if you want to tell me JB lost this game pre-Baylor as opposed to during the game, I suppose I can accept that.

 

[Millhouse]

Part of why he was in there.

the perfect outlet pass leading to a baylor fast break by brissett really drove me nuts. so much panic with the ball

 

[Day2]

I’ve never said we had no business losing to Baylor.

I said losing Frank made us pretty equal to Baylor, whereas with Frank we were probably better.

In an equal game, coaching comes into play. Drew was better.

I’ll take the “don’t blame JB, blame Frank” excuse against Gonzaga, but I’m not accepting that against Baylor. JB gets some blame for losing to Baylor. Sorry, he just does.

I said you're acting like we had no business losing to Baylor. I guess you clarified your position.

It was a one possession game with three minutes left. What was it JB did or didn't do in those last three minutes? He didn't miss any shots. He didn't turn the ball over. He didn't give up on any rebounds.

What if Battle rebounds Mason's miss and we score? Then the press causes a turnover and we score again? Then we hold onto the lead and win? Still a poor coaching performance for JB? Is Drew still better?

The players have to make plays. The coaches have to put the players in position to make those plays. We were in position to win with what we had. Sometimes we win those games (like last year), sometimes we don't.

 

[Day2]

Except, I did.

Our recruiting has been pretty meh, which leads to less good players, and with no development, we have no depth.

Token press is not trunk monkey press. It requires barely any energy. Neither does a grand total of 4-5 possessions of m2m.

We never needed to be in a position to press and drain energy at the end if we didn’t give up, oh, I don’t know, 16 threes.

Carey at least could get in Masons jock to stop one less wide open three than Buddy, especially when he came back in with a bad foot. It was so clear that Buddy was a mess at that point.

Braswell can’t get a few minutes? I suppose not considering you can’t trust a guy who never plays because your coach doesn’t develop a bench.

Do we have zero contingency plan if teams don’t stop making threes? How can that possibly be?

Oh, altitude... Were we told at tip time that Frank was suspended and we were playing in SLC?

So, if you want to tell me JB lost this game pre-Baylor as opposed to during the game, I suppose I can accept that.

You said it yourself: We're a better team with Frank. The rest of your post isn't worth my time.

 

[longislandcuse]

I said you're acting like we had no business losing to Baylor. I guess you clarified your position.

It was a one possession game with three minutes left. What was it JB did or didn't do in those last three minutes? He didn't miss any shots. He didn't turn the ball over. He didn't give up on any rebounds.

What if Battle rebounds Mason's miss and we score? Then the press causes a turnover and we score again? Then we hold onto the lead and win? Still a poor coaching performance for JB? Is Drew still better?

The players have to make plays. The coaches have to put the players in position to make those plays. We were in position to win with what we had. Sometimes we win those games (like last year), sometimes we don't.

...and when you don’t win, you take the blame. That’s how it works.

You can’t say “they just made more shots” when you didn’t try anything to change that.

 

[longislandcuse]

You said it yourself: We're a better team with Frank. The rest of your post isn't worth my time.

Weird flex.

We are a better team than Baylor with Frank.

Without him, that was a pretty evenly matched game. Key phrase - evenly matched. Anyone who watched that game would probably agree.

The difference though...one team had a bench and changed defenses.

Buddy/Carey were recruited, coached and developed by Boeheim and staff. The zone and it being the only defense we play is coaches decision.