Class of 2016 LB Taylor Riggins (NY) Verbal to UMass

[tep624]

In the past decade, how many AQ kids have committed to P5 schools?

2016: Jake Zembiec (PSU) and Jamir Jomes (ND)

2012: Jarron Jones (ND) and Jahmahl Pardner (Pitt)

2008: Matt Jones (SU)

Am I missing anyone?

This is more on topic than what this thread has spiraled into. It was a discussion on whether recruiting Rochester (based on number of D1 recruits, the success of those recruits at the P5 level, and the fact that winning is going to pique the interest of the top recruits there anyway) was worth our time, not the entirety of NYS.

And Jamahl Pardner is another to add to the list, ended up at Towson after transferring out of Pitt.

 

[TheCusian]

Absolutely right. I cant believe people think we should give up on conncecting with kids, coaches and parents in their community and own state. No matter how many top recruits dont come to SU. You still have to establish and maintain relationships in your own territory. You dont quit.

Big difference between "giving up" and not honoring one commitment. This staff and AD are -1 with AQ. The rest is old hurts and bruises made by people who no longer coach here.

I have a hard time jumping to the conclusion that this is Babers long term NY state plan (even if some posters think we should).

 

[TheCusian]

Um those programs win

I hate that - but it makes sense.

Iffy relationship with struggling in-state team < no relationship with a bigger name

One makes the coaches look better.

Can't wait till we are that school.

 

[tep624]

I hate that - but it makes sense.

Iffy relationship with struggling in-state team < no relationship with a bigger name

One makes the coaches look better.

Can't wait till we are that school.

It's basically a chicken or egg discussion with Rochester area recruiting.

 

[TheCusian]

It's basically a chicken or egg discussion with Rochester area recruiting.

If this offense starts to be Baylor north, kids in the whole state will be dying to play here.

 

[javadoc]

Riggins will get a full ride somewhere soon...Dino is currently recruiting where his staff has connections...relationships with NYS HS coaches will be reestablished moving forward...Cuse football will be relevant again...Amen!

M

I think there might be another point that is being over looked here and it is building a fan base. When you recruit local kids, develop relationships with HS coaches and their players you are also developing fans for the program. So what is the harm in taking one kid in one class. In taking the chance at opening the flood gates to a school that has lots of talent...in your own backyard where you need to increase your fanbase. Just because it hasn't worked that way in the past doesn't mean things can't or won't be different in the future. Some of you would never survive in sales.

you have hit what I regard as the crux. Why does the concept of sales even apply? It is a problem that the residents of a state have to have their home state team sold to them. Period. Full stop. End of story.

And the problem is not with the school.

 

[CuseLegacy]

This is more on topic than what this thread has spiraled into. It was a discussion on whether recruiting Rochester (based on number of D1 recruits, the success of those recruits at the P5 level, and the fact that winning is going to pique the interest of the top recruits there anyway) was worth our time, not the entirety of NYS.

And Jamahl Pardner is another to add to the list, ended up at Towson after transferring out of Pitt.

I think there were multiple discussions going on here. Mine was never about recruiting one NY HS, but rather not keeping the commitment to one NY state player and the perception that gives to other NY HS programs.

 

[timkay99]

Whats worse is riding the pine when your a player from out of state. Atleast the instate kid has family and support near by that encourages him to stick with it. Family that still come to the games so their son can see their faces in the stands. I think you will be amazed how much sacrifices are made on rosters. Im talking about powerhouse schools. You have to take a kid that can play and will contribute after coaching them up. I dont think anyone is saying take a bum.

Again, I don't disagree with that. But, if the staff evaluates a player as not being able to contribute after coaching up (which seems to be the staff evaluation of many of the decommits), you just can't take that kid (IMO) just because he is from New York and from a powerhouse school.

P5 schools are the schools that dominate recruiting. They should have their choice of nearly everyone not going to a P5 school. I respectfully disagree about sacrifices needing to be made on rosters to get the elite players.

I can even provide an example of this from the baseball recruiting world. We went after a kid (RHP) for about 4 months (not very long, but I had just gotten hired) from a school that feeds both students and student athletes to our school. We are a NAIA school, so we have to build relationships to be successful. Had a great talk with the HS coach and he really wants his kids (we are also recruiting a UTL type from there) to come to Freed. Both come up for visits, we offer the RHP and UTL after the visit a near full ride. We have everything here, great relationship, only offer, kids like everything and they have near full rides.

Fast forward - RHP goes to a Tennessee Tech camp (D-1), receives an offer and commits on the spot. Now the UTL (who still hasn't picked up any other offers and has a near full ride offer from us) is waiting to see what happens because he thinks he will receive a D-1 offer.

My point in that story is that it doesn't matter what relationships are built, if a school a tier above you comes in, it is rare to beat them. It comes down more to that kid then the relationship with the HS coach. That RHP was the # 2 kid on my pitcher board, we signed the # 1 b/c we got in early, he committed to us early and he wanted to shut down recruiting early. For that # 1 kid, I talked to the HS coach, but the reason he signed with us and didn't wait is because the kid loved us and didn't care who else came calling (at least that is the case now, hopefully it stays that way into the spring!)

Sorry Riggins got caught up in this. I am still of the belief there are much better ways to build relationships with HS coaches then by taking marginal players per the staff's evaluation. Doesn't mean the staff evaluation is right, but its their evaluation.

 

[TheCusian]

Again, I don't disagree with that. But, if the staff evaluates a player as not being able to contribute after coaching up (which seems to be the staff evaluation of many of the decommits), you just can't take that kid (IMO) just because he is from New York and from a powerhouse school.

P5 schools are the schools that dominate recruiting. They should have their choice of nearly everyone not going to a P5 school. I respectfully disagree about sacrifices needing to be made on rosters to get the elite players.

I can even provide an example of this from the baseball recruiting world. We went after a kid (RHP) for about 4 months (not very long, but I had just gotten hired) from a school that feeds both students and student athletes to our school. We are a NAIA school, so we have to build relationships to be successful. Had a great talk with the HS coach and he really wants his kids (we are also recruiting a UTL type from there) to come to Freed. Both come up for visits, we offer the RHP and UTL after the visit a near full ride. We have everything here, great relationship, only offer, kids like everything and they have near full rides.

Fast forward - RHP goes to a Tennessee Tech camp (D-1), receives an offer and commits on the spot. Now the UTL (who still hasn't picked up any other offers and has a near full ride offer from us) is waiting to see what happens because he thinks he will receive a D-1 offer.

My point in that story is that it doesn't matter what relationships are built, if a school a tier above you comes in, it is rare to beat them. It comes down more to that kid then the relationship with the HS coach. That RHP was the # 2 kid on my pitcher board, we signed the # 1 b/c we got in early, he committed to us early and he wanted to shut down recruiting early. For that # 1 kid, I talked to the HS coach, but the reason he signed with us and didn't wait is because the kid loved us and didn't care who else came calling (at least that is the case now, hopefully it stays that way into the spring!)

Sorry Riggins got caught up in this. I am still of the belief there are much better ways to build relationships with HS coaches then by taking marginal players per the staff's evaluation. Doesn't mean the staff evaluation is right, but its their evaluation.

Great post.

I also think when you lose as much as we have over the past 15 years - it's not just that we are lower than ND, Penn St, etc. - but there's a kind of stigma attached to the program that is more felt locally. So a kid not only doesn't think highly of the program because they are not winning, but that it's compounded by living so close to so many unhappy fans, apathy, and negative media attention.

A kid from FL just see's the dome and knows about basketball. There's a smaller mental hurdle to jump.

 

[money3189]

Again, I don't disagree with that. But, if the staff evaluates a player as not being able to contribute after coaching up (which seems to be the staff evaluation of many of the decommits), you just can't take that kid (IMO) just because he is from New York and from a powerhouse school.

P5 schools are the schools that dominate recruiting. They should have their choice of nearly everyone not going to a P5 school. I respectfully disagree about sacrifices needing to be made on rosters to get the elite players.

I can even provide an example of this from the baseball recruiting world. We went after a kid (RHP) for about 4 months (not very long, but I had just gotten hired) from a school that feeds both students and student athletes to our school. We are a NAIA school, so we have to build relationships to be successful. Had a great talk with the HS coach and he really wants his kids (we are also recruiting a UTL type from there) to come to Freed. Both come up for visits, we offer the RHP and UTL after the visit a near full ride. We have everything here, great relationship, only offer, kids like everything and they have near full rides.

Fast forward - RHP goes to a Tennessee Tech camp (D-1), receives an offer and commits on the spot. Now the UTL (who still hasn't picked up any other offers and has a near full ride offer from us) is waiting to see what happens because he thinks he will receive a D-1 offer.

My point in that story is that it doesn't matter what relationships are built, if a school a tier above you comes in, it is rare to beat them. It comes down more to that kid then the relationship with the HS coach. That RHP was the # 2 kid on my pitcher board, we signed the # 1 b/c we got in early, he committed to us early and he wanted to shut down recruiting early. For that # 1 kid, I talked to the HS coach, but the reason he signed with us and didn't wait is because the kid loved us and didn't care who else came calling (at least that is the case now, hopefully it stays that way into the spring!)

Sorry Riggins got caught up in this. I am still of the belief there are much better ways to build relationships with HS coaches then by taking marginal players per the staff's evaluation. Doesn't mean the staff evaluation is right, but its their evaluation.

you make some vaild points but do you really think every team's roster has high level players? Every team have misses. Why not miss on a kid that will go all out to make himself and his team better? A kid that bleeds orange. I can get more out of that kid than a kid from florida with a bad attitude and doesnt want to work hard. Some southern athletes plateau because they play so much down there. Players from the north can always get better because they are still developing. They dont play as many games as the kids down south so theres alot of room for growth. These are D 1 coaches If they are good they can coach up a kid that is 6'2 215 and runs a 4.6 40. Can they not?

 

[Mr. M]

I think this got mentioned earlier in the thread- one reason the new coaches didn't take Riggins is because they had no way to evaluate him, there was no film of him at LB. Is that correct? If so, isn't that at least partially the HS coach's fault? Get him some PT at the position he's expected to play in college, and always have film ready.

 

[money3189]

If this offense starts to be Baylor north, kids in the whole state will be dying to play here.

I agree.

 

[money3189]

I think this got mentioned earlier in the thread- one reason the new coaches didn't take Riggins is because they had no way to evaluate him, there was no film of him at LB. Is that correct? If so, isn't that at least partially the HS coach's fault? Get him some PT at the position he's expected to play in college, and always have film ready.

The high school coach has to do whaterver it takes to win games. He played Taylor at RB. He was their workhorse. He made the decision to not let him to play LB so he can focus on running the ball. Thats a tough one to answer IMO.

 

[CuseCrew08]

I think this got mentioned earlier in the thread- one reason the new coaches didn't take Riggins is because they had no way to evaluate him, there was no film of him at LB. Is that correct? If so, isn't that at least partially the HS coach's fault? Get him some PT at the position he's expected to play in college, and always have film ready.

I'm a little confused about this as well. I understand Riggins came to camp this past summer and had a great camp and the coaches offered him on the spot. Why doesn't he have film for the coaches to evaluate? Was it because he hurt his knee in the beginning of the year?

Edit: money answered my question above.

 

[CuseCrew08]

Follow up question, are the camps that 'Cuse put on this past summer that Riggins excelled at filmed? Are his running times in a database?

 

[money3189]

Riggins will get a full ride somewhere soon...Dino is currently recruiting where his staff has connections...relationships with NYS HS coaches will be reestablished moving forward...Cuse football will be relevant again...Amen!

They worked hard forming those connections there. That's why they are able to grab prospects out of that state. The coaches trust them with their kids.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I really thought how the staff handled Riggins was very short sighted. He would have been my 3rd or 4th call. That's not because I think Riggins will be an all-American it's because it's the perception that it brings to the program. Cuse and Babers has a great opportunity. He has something that differentiates himself from the last 2 decades of Head Coaches. It's his offense! As much as I liked FHCSS, there was nothing really that stood out about his program. If Babers wins and with that offense, he has a great marketing tool. You cannot be burning the bridges that lead out of town, Riggins was worth the flier and we missed an opportunity.

 

[timkay99]

you make some vaild points but do you really think every team's roster has high level players? Every team have misses. Why not miss on a kid that will go all out to make himself and his team better? A kid that bleeds orange. I can get more out of that kid than a kid from florida with a bad attituse and doesnt wan to work hard. These are D 1 coaches If they are good they can coach up a kid that is 6'2 215 and runs a 4.6 40. Can they not?

No, not every team has high level players, but I would argue every player in a program is brought in b/c the evaluations are that the staff can make them into starters (some are projects over multiple years needing both strength and technique work, some need weight training, some need technique). The misses come off the coaches' evaluation of the kid being a potential starter and not fulfilling that (as it relates to the low level players on the current roster). The coaches eval may be wrong in Riggins' case that he isn't a fit, but that will stop kids from landing on the roster unfortunately.

But, what kid from Florida is in this class with a bad attitude and doesn't want to work hard? I fully believe makeup is an important part of the recruiting, so I wouldn't take the kid from Florida either (and I don't think it is hard to get into the makeup of players before signing them).

I disagree with the last sentence. You know as a coach there are so many intricacies to playing every position. To relate it to baseball, people think guys who hit 500 foot bombs in BP should be able to be taught how to hit in games. Sometimes that just isn't possible.

 

[money3189]

Follow up question, are the camps that 'Cuse put on this past summer that Riggins excelled at filmed? Are his running times in a database?

Yes those tapes are around. Im sure they wont look at them. Their minds were made up early in the proccess. Just think , they are only recruiting kids they already know. Culpepper and Neal was early enrollees so they had to take them. They wouldnt have been apart of this class If they werent IMO. Ruff was already being recruited by Monroe. Holloway Scoop and Heckel were the only commits they kept. They already had a relationship with Heckel. He had a BG offer

 

[cliftonparksufan]

If the NYS HS coaches and programs want SU's current coaching staff to make up for perceived past slights from other previous coaching staffs instead of starting them out with a clean slate then I think they are being ridiculous. Period.

I don't follow our football recruiting but do like to come read the comments. I do know that some of our football alumni have not been treated the best and I am sure that has led to some prospects going elsewhere. Babers has a lot of uphill work to do as far as making in state contacts. Bottom line is that we are not Alabama or Penn State. For football, we are not everyone's dream school.

 

[money3189]

No, not every team has high level players, but I would argue every player in a program is brought in b/c the evaluations are that the staff can make them into starters (some are projects over multiple years needing both strength and technique work, some need weight training, some need technique). The misses come off the coaches' evaluation of the kid being a potential starter and not fulfilling that (as it relates to the low level players on the current roster). The coaches eval may be wrong in Riggins' case that he isn't a fit, but that will stop kids from landing on the roster unfortunately.

But, what kid from Florida is in this class with a bad attitude and doesn't want to work hard? I fully believe makeup is an important part of the recruiting, so I wouldn't take the kid from Florida either (and I don't think it is hard to get into the makeup of players before signing them).

I disagree with the last sentence. You know as a coach there are so many intricacies to playing every position. To relate it to baseball, people think guys who hit 500 foot bombs in BP should be able to be taught how to hit in games. Sometimes that just isn't possible.

the measurables I gave its just the start of it. Im not saying he should be rewarded with a scholly based on that. I have evaluated many players for Marrone and Shafer. They took my advice. I know who can play and who cannot play at that level. Ive seen Riggins quite often. Despite his lack of big time offers. He is good. They missed out on this one IMO.

 

[Mr. M]

Will he get offers from any of Maryland, Purdue, Ball State (if they have room in the current cycle)? That will be telling for whether or not the former coaches think he's a high D1 talent, or if he was only appealing to SU being a local kid.

 

[PhatOrange]

Scissum

 

[money3189]

Will he get offers from any of Maryland, Purdue, Ball State (if they have room in the current cycle)? That will be telling for whether or not the former coaches think he's a high D1 talent, or if he was only appealing to SU being a local kid.

too late in the game. He missed games this year because of a sprained knee. He cut off recruitment when he committed. This kid wanted to be orange so bad. Didnt except phone calls from coaches, I think he will end up at Umass. He didnt go to any combine or camps. Just SU camp once

 

[Mr. M]

too late in the game. He missed games this year because of a sprained knee. He cut off recruitment when he committed. This kid wanted to be orange so bad. Didnt except phone calls from coaches, I think he will end up at Umass. He didnt go to any combine or camps. Just SU camp once

I thought with Shafer and Daoust now being d-coordinators and still recruiting would potentially reach out