Lets talk about SU players with passion effort and fire

[kcsu]

I touched on this last night on my two cents post. Effort, balls to the wall passion. Hating to lose. Leaders.
This team lacks the leadership and all out puke your guts out, fist through the wall, will your team, cry , scream and kick players that win.
Pearl takes on Ewing. DC takes on the football team, Gmac, Devo, Flynn, Hop, Bug, Marty, Lees, Buddy, Battle,
And JB. Yes our coach who used to go out of his mind ,bat sh...t crazy throw his jacket have to be restrained coach.
To todays bunch.
Mintz has it. Copeland, Hima, passion, a hatred of losing.
The rest i dont see it. Sure some in spurts but nothing like Gmac or Devo or Hop. Not even close.
We have talent on this team. We dont have enough DOGS. Back in the day if you didnt give a 1000% in the game you did suicides till you puked your guts out.
This teams soft and you cant push them like they need. JBs 4x their age and unfortunately he has 4x the passion of most of the kids on this team.

 

[rocklloyd]

Do we need the “be a dog” press conference to cheer us up?

 

[Red Holzman]

 

[DilemaCuse]

I touched on this last night on my two cents post. Effort, balls to the wall passion. Hating to lose. Leaders.
This team lacks the leadership and all out puke your guts out, fist through the wall, will your team, cry , scream and kick players that win.
Pearl takes on Ewing. DC takes on the football team, Gmac, Devo, Flynn, Hop, Bug, Marty, Lees, Buddy, Battle,
And JB. Yes our coach who used to go out of his mind ,bat sh...t crazy throw his jacket have to be restrained coach.
To todays bunch.
Mintz has it. Copeland, Hima, passion, a hatred of losing.
The rest i dont see it. Sure some in spurts but nothing like Gmac or Devo or Hop. Not even close.
We have talent on this team. We dont have enough DOGS. Back in the day if you didnt give a 1000% in the game you did suicides till you puked your guts out.
This teams soft and you cant push them like they need. JBs 4x their age and unfortunately he has 4x the passion of most of the kids on this team.

I have noticed the same, a couple of things related to this with our players;
I see Benny jogging back on D, rarely ever sprinting
JB complaining about Chris Bell's rebounding. In the 2 or 3 games of his I saw on ESPN, I could tell that kid wanted nothing to do with doing the dirty work, half court defense, rebounding, etc. Did JB not watch the same games and notice the things that were posted on this message board? How did he think Bell was gonna magically start rebounding against college and ACC level players?

 

[Newhouser]

The thing bothering me the most this year is when nobody helps a guy up who is making a hustle play. The play Malik made against Pitt where he saved the ball in the corner and fell into the PITT bench. The whole team should have been over there excited and congratulating - he got up himself and I think may have - MAY - have gotten a pass by slap from Jesse. Hustle and passion - like passing - is usually contagious.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I’m confused. You want us to discuss SU players who had passion , effort , and fire OR you want us to passionately talk about SU players ?

 

[Cusefan0307]

The guys who finished the other night played very hard. The problem was that lineup didn't get run until about 10 minutes to go.

 

[JOC44]

Jason Hart. Good player who HATED losing.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

You often hear about how you can't coach height, but you can coach toughness and hustle. Some guys may need more coaching than others, and a rare few may go through the motions in spite of your efforts, but you can coach it.

Boeheim can complain all he wants about Bell and Benny not doing their part, and he's not necessarily wrong, but at some point it comes back to you and what role you have in why things are the way they are. Or at least it should.

I just don't think this staff can connect with players in the way that's required for success.

 

[swish7]

Competitors (in order of consistent competitiveness)

1. Mintz
2. Bol
3. Copeland
4. Hima
5. Brown
6. Taylor
7. Jesse
8. Bennie
9. Joe
10. Bell

But, every one of these guys has flaws.

• Mintz: makes a good play and wastes time woofing. We could be up 10, or down 10, 2 minutes in or 2 minutes left, and he woofs & flexes as the other team is moving the ball down court
• Bol: not enough info to say. He is one of these weird players that helps us in one game and JB doesn't use him the next.
• Copeland: Very erratic offensive player. Tons of passion and effort, but makes a lot of mistakes. I think he has great upside and would benefit most from Bells PT. We are screwing the pooch with Copeland and need to try him more, earlier in games.
• Hima: Not enough info, but has played very well when Jesse was in foul trouble. If Jesse could stay out of foul trouble, I would like to see what happens with he and Jesse in the game at the same time. I think JB is screwing the pooch with Hima. He plays well when Jesse fouls out and JB calls him out in the presser saying we cannot have him playing XX minutes or whatever.
• Brown: Quietly makes good things happen. JB recognized this against Pitt and played him.
• Taylor Doesn't pop athletically, but he is more than good enough, and is out there doing smart things. When other forwards are settling for bad shots, he is taking his guy off the dribble and drawing defenders, and still big and smart enough to move the ball.
• Jesse: Is a dog when the dude's are shorter and skinnier. Too nice. Doesn't do a great job setting up in the post.
• Bennie: I do not understand why he is not a better player. I do not think the Syracuse 'system' is a good fit for his skillset, frankly. The SU system is more about individual players making great decisions. I think he would do better in a system where his role is more clearly defined.
• Joe: Drives you nuts because he is a dog when good things are happening, but hangs his head & jogs when bad things happen. Very inconsistent. His demeanor, the pouting and head hanging sets a tone. He needs to more consistently look to get his, and would benefit from having a dog to lead the pack.
• Bell: Good shooter, but disappears. I cannot speak to his rebounding, because frankly I hardly notice him out there.

Typically, the tone is set by the seniors and upperclassmen on a team. Our upperclassmen are at the bottom of this list. I would rather not wait until next season. We need to strike now.

Hope JB rewards the true competitors on the team.

Edit: As mentioned by others, players are not helping players up and celebrating tough play. Other players, besides Mintz, waste precious time woofing and/or complaining about calls. IMO, you can coach these finer details by expecting it and pulling guys when they don't do it.

 

[rrlbees]

I touched on this last night on my two cents post. Effort, balls to the wall passion. Hating to lose. Leaders.
This team lacks the leadership and all out puke your guts out, fist through the wall, will your team, cry , scream and kick players that win.
Pearl takes on Ewing. DC takes on the football team, Gmac, Devo, Flynn, Hop, Bug, Marty, Lees, Buddy, Battle,
And JB. Yes our coach who used to go out of his mind ,bat sh...t crazy throw his jacket have to be restrained coach.
To todays bunch.
Mintz has it. Copeland, Hima, passion, a hatred of losing.
The rest i dont see it. Sure some in spurts but nothing like Gmac or Devo or Hop. Not even close.
We have talent on this team. We dont have enough DOGS. Back in the day if you didnt give a 1000% in the game you did suicides till you puked your guts out.
This teams soft and you cant push them like they need. JBs 4x their age and unfortunately he has 4x the passion of most of the kids on this team.

Not that I disagree with your larger point, but I would never consider bug, Marty, the lees, buddy or battle as being DOGS. Played hard and all but my definition of a DOG is more in line with the DCs and Devos.

 

[dasher]

Not that I disagree with your larger point, but I would never consider bug, Marty, the lees, buddy or battle as being DOGS. Played hard and all but my definition of a DOG is more in line with the DCs and Devos.

Wouldn't be a dog also include being tough as nails on defense? Because that certainly wasn't Devo.

 

[721Comstock]

Wouldn't be a dog also include being tough as nails on defense? Because that certainly wasn't Devo.

Devo was a DOG on O, and dogged it on D.

TBF, so did Jonny, unless he was gambling for a steal.

In TBT, I could see that Devo was legit trying hard to play D - he was just not very good at it.
At least in that setting, it wasn't at all lack of effort, it was lack of ability.

 

[Red Holzman]

DC
Hop gave his all.
The General, and John Wallace could be considered also.

 

[721Comstock]

DC
Hop gave his all.
The General, and John Wallace could be considered also.

Listen, I love J-Dub as much as any Cuse player ever.

That said - he ROUTINELY mailed it in on D.

 

[swish7]

Listen, I love J-Dub as much as any Cuse player ever.

That said - he ROUTINELY mailed it in on D.

True, and it probably cost him in the pros...

 

[Red Holzman]

Listen, I love J-Dub as much as any Cuse player ever.

That said - he ROUTINELY mailed it in on D.

Can't argue that, just hard coming up with names.
Kind of surprising -
A list of all-around indisputable SU hoops DOGS not very long apparently

 

[two3zone]

 

[Nicknack]

Competitors (in order of consistent competitiveness)

1. Mintz
2. Bol
3. Copeland
4. Hima
5. Brown
6. Taylor
7. Jesse
8. Bennie
9. Joe
10. Bell

But, every one of these guys has flaws.

• Mintz: makes a good play and wastes time woofing. We could be up 10, or down 10, 2 minutes in or 2 minutes left, and he woofs & flexes as the other team is moving the ball down court
• Bol: not enough info to say. He is one of these weird players that helps us in one game and JB doesn't use him the next.
• Copeland: Very erratic offensive player. Tons of passion and effort, but makes a lot of mistakes. I think he has great upside and would benefit most from Bells PT. We are screwing the pooch with Copeland and need to try him more, earlier in games.
• Hima: Not enough info, but has played very well when Jesse was in foul trouble. If Jesse could stay out of foul trouble, I would like to see what happens with he and Jesse in the game at the same time. I think JB is screwing the pooch with Hima. He plays well when Jesse fouls out and JB calls him out in the presser saying we cannot have him playing XX minutes or whatever.
• Brown: Quietly makes good things happen. JB recognized this against Pitt and played him.
• Taylor Doesn't pop athletically, but he is more than good enough, and is out there doing smart things. When other forwards are settling for bad shots, he is taking his guy off the dribble and drawing defenders, and still big and smart enough to move the ball.
• Jesse: Is a dog when the dude's are shorter and skinnier. Too nice. Doesn't do a great job setting up in the post.
• Bennie: I do not understand why he is not a better player. I do not think the Syracuse 'system' is a good fit for his skillset, frankly. The SU system is more about individual players making great decisions. I think he would do better in a system where his role is more clearly defined.
• Joe: Drives you nuts because he is a dog when good things are happening, but hangs his head & jogs when bad things happen. Very inconsistent. His demeanor, the pouting and head hanging sets a tone. He needs to more consistently look to get his, and would benefit from having a dog to lead the pack.
• Bell: Good shooter, but disappears. I cannot speak to his rebounding, because frankly I hardly notice him out there.

Typically, the tone is set by the seniors and upperclassmen on a team. Our upperclassmen are at the bottom of this list. I would rather not wait until next season. We need to strike now.

Hope JB rewards the true competitors on the team.

Edit: As mentioned by others, players are not helping players up and celebrating tough play. Other players, besides Mintz, waste precious time woofing and/or complaining about calls. IMO, you can coach these finer details by expecting it and pulling guys when they don't do it.

Your list reminds me what I was doing the other night. I was going down the roster and identifying one thing that every player does or doesn't do that hurts the team. For Brown, there really isn't anything. Yeah, he may not have the offensive ceiling like Benny or Bell, but he contributes each and every minute of the game. He lets his presence be known. Just a solid player.

 

[Brooky03]

Team chemistry has seemed elusive the last handful of years. Successful teams play for each other. That brings out the accountability and tenacity recent teams have been missing, imo. It’s like if your mom and dad get mad at you, it’s kind of whatever. They’re mad but they’re not going to dunk your head in a toilet (I’d hope). Maybe they ground you or take away your phone or something dumb. If your big brother gets mad at you for doing something you shouldn’t, he might just punch you in the face real hard. If a bully pushes you in mud, maybe your parents have a conversation with that kids parents. Maybe your brother pushes that kid in the mud. Different level of motivation. Thats how I see the difference in coaches vs players motivating guys. Idk, maybe it’s a dumb analogy. It seems like all the motivation has to come from JB and it’s just not working.

Speaking of coach, I do remember players being much more likely to get fired up by JB dressing them down than we see now. Players would sort of unite like marines unite against their drill instructor. Recently, players seem more likely to pout or just give up when he yells at them. In the past, guys seemed more willing to use that as fuel or even challenge JB in a constructive way. Just once, I’d like to see a guy like Benny get yelled at, go back on the court, dunk on the biggest dude and look at JB Kirk Cousins style like, “You like that, MFer?!” ftr, I think JB would love that.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Jason Hart. Good player who HATED losing.

That was the first player I thought of, too.

I can recall him as a freshman calling out his teammates as soft because they didn’t play with the same fire and effort as he did. That takes some decent self esteem for a frosh to do that, but he didn’t ask them to do anything that he wasn’t already doing himself.

Another guy who left it all on the court was Mike Hopkins.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Always thought Andy gave his top effort on both ends of the court. Not a dawg per se, but high motor

 

[NorSyr66]

Competitors (in order of consistent competitiveness)

1. Mintz
2. Bol
3. Copeland
4. Hima
5. Brown
6. Taylor
7. Jesse
8. Bennie
9. Joe
10. Bell

But, every one of these guys has flaws.

• Mintz: makes a good play and wastes time woofing. We could be up 10, or down 10, 2 minutes in or 2 minutes left, and he woofs & flexes as the other team is moving the ball down court
• Bol: not enough info to say. He is one of these weird players that helps us in one game and JB doesn't use him the next.
• Copeland: Very erratic offensive player. Tons of passion and effort, but makes a lot of mistakes. I think he has great upside and would benefit most from Bells PT. We are screwing the pooch with Copeland and need to try him more, earlier in games.
• Hima: Not enough info, but has played very well when Jesse was in foul trouble. If Jesse could stay out of foul trouble, I would like to see what happens with he and Jesse in the game at the same time. I think JB is screwing the pooch with Hima. He plays well when Jesse fouls out and JB calls him out in the presser saying we cannot have him playing XX minutes or whatever.
• Brown: Quietly makes good things happen. JB recognized this against Pitt and played him.
• Taylor Doesn't pop athletically, but he is more than good enough, and is out there doing smart things. When other forwards are settling for bad shots, he is taking his guy off the dribble and drawing defenders, and still big and smart enough to move the ball.
• Jesse: Is a dog when the dude's are shorter and skinnier. Too nice. Doesn't do a great job setting up in the post.
• Bennie: I do not understand why he is not a better player. I do not think the Syracuse 'system' is a good fit for his skillset, frankly. The SU system is more about individual players making great decisions. I think he would do better in a system where his role is more clearly defined.
• Joe: Drives you nuts because he is a dog when good things are happening, but hangs his head & jogs when bad things happen. Very inconsistent. His demeanor, the pouting and head hanging sets a tone. He needs to more consistently look to get his, and would benefit from having a dog to lead the pack.
• Bell: Good shooter, but disappears. I cannot speak to his rebounding, because frankly I hardly notice him out there.

Typically, the tone is set by the seniors and upperclassmen on a team. Our upperclassmen are at the bottom of this list. I would rather not wait until next season. We need to strike now.

Hope JB rewards the true competitors on the team.

Edit: As mentioned by others, players are not helping players up and celebrating tough play. Other players, besides Mintz, waste precious time woofing and/or complaining about calls. IMO, you can coach these finer details by expecting it and pulling guys when they don't do it.

Nice job summing up what we have seen so far this season with this team. I could bicker a bit on Jon Bol over Mintz but they are definitely the top of the list with Q also in the mix. I think the critical thing you mention regarding the need for our seniors to set the tone. Just not happening! Maybe why I lean a bit towards Jon Bol over Mintz. Makes you wonder if there is even a leader in this group? Natural leaders would have emerged by now, you would think?

 

[Red Holzman]

Ideally, Jessie and Joe should be at/near the top of your Competitor List.
They also wouldn't be near the top of a Leader List, IMO.
A two-factor problem.
We need a Paul O'Neill on this team -kicking A and taking names.
Another way-back example: The Captain, Willis Reed.
Yes, I'm biased!

 

[cayugacuse]

Sherm and Stevie Thompson come to mind.