Lydon

[HoustonCuse]

What the hell are you talking about? SR Wallace had one of the single best seasons in 'Cuse history. Lydon is no where near Wallace. Also, Lydon's shot blocking numbers are pretty much identical to Wallace, so there is no edge there.

What are the numbers? I haven't looked but I assume shooting pcts are similar. Rebounding? Probably ballpark. Assists? TOs? I dunno on those. Wallace definitely better with the ball. Wallace definitely more willing to take the offensive load and shoot at a higher volume, but that doesn't necessarily mean he had better skills. Lydon broke records blocking shots last year in the tourney and it seems he's been willing to do more than JW did defensively.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What are the numbers? I haven't looked but I assume shooting pcts are similar. Rebounding? Probably ballpark. Assists? TOs? I dunno on those. Wallace definitely better with the ball. Wallace definitely more willing to take the offensive load and shoot at a higher volume, but that doesn't necessarily mean he had better skills. Lydon broke records blocking shots last year in the tourney and it seems he's been willing to do more than JW did defensively.

Wallace

11/7/1/1/1
15/9/2/1/1

Lydon

10/6/2/1/1
13/8/1.5/2/1

 

[Madbiker]

i think sr. john wallace went 18th to the knicks. question . who was a better college player Jdub or Lydon ?


CUSE IS DA HOUSE!! OH MY GOD MY GOD

Wallace carried a team on his back to the NCAA title game. Lydon is still playing like a complimentary player, not an alpha dog.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Wallace carried a team on his back to the NCAA title game. Lydon is still playing like a complimentary player, not an alpha dog.

Do you think it's realistic to ask sophomore year Lydon to put up the same numbers Wallace and Warrick did as Seniors? He's doing what they did as underclassmen.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Wallace

11/7/1/1/1
15/9/2/1/1

Lydon

10/6/2/1/1
13/8/1.5/2/1

Thanks. Good info. I think the comparison would even be close with Sr JW if you look at shooting pct also - as a "tempo free" skill based metric.

 

[tbonezone]

Do you think it's realistic to ask sophomore year Lydon to put up the same numbers Wallace and Warrick did as Seniors? He's doing what they did as underclassmen.

well warrick and wallace didn't declare for the draft as sophs did they. they stayed and developed UPSIDE.

 

[Madbiker]

Do you think it's realistic to ask sophomore year Lydon to put up the same numbers Wallace and Warrick did as Seniors? He's doing what they did as underclassmen.

Then Lydon needs to stay in school until he's capable of doing it. I get these guys want the immediate payday. But if he leaves too soon he'll be out of the league in a couple of years. NBA coaches are not about developing players, they have to win games now.

 

[Ward]

We probably will never see Lydon as a Senior so not sure why it is even a comparison. Their freshman and sophomore number should are pretty comparable. You can't compare players across eras anymore because we never see these guys reach Wallace senior year potential. Hakim Warrick is probably the last guy you will see like that.

I think if Lydon comes back for his Junior season we'll be seeing him as a Senior.

 

[Funk Doc]

I think if Lydon comes back for his Junior season we'll be seeing him as a Senior.

Definitely...he either goes now or graduates. I agree with many other posters on here that his lack of aggressiveness will always keep him back a bit. And as others have said. He won't be any higher than a third or fourth scoring option on the floor at one time for any NBA teams. He'll get shots. He ever starts missing jumpers though he'll be in trouble because that's all he's got.

 

[Ward]

Definitely...he either goes now or graduates. I agree with many other posters on here that his lack of aggressiveness will always keep him back a bit. And as others have said. He won't be any higher than a third or fourth scoring option on the floor at one time for any NBA teams. He'll get shots. He ever starts missing jumpers though he'll be in trouble because that's all he's got.

Yea I don't really know how much he improves by coming back. Putting the ball on the floor is never going to be one of his strengths, here or at the next level. He is what he is but the longer he stays the higher the expectations from NBA scouts are for production and the way his game is suited I don't think he's going to see this giant uptick of an extra 6-7 points a game next year.

I will say if he wants any chance of sticking in the league he needs to put a new focus on getting his body right. He doesn't have a great composition right now and you can tell by the way he moves his core isn't that strong.

 

[Lucid]

Yea I don't really know how much he improves by coming back. Putting the ball on the floor is never going to be one of his strengths, here or at the next level.

Actually, I think he puts the ball on the floor pretty well, when he does it. He's just way too timid, in that along with every other aspect of his game.

I think, given 4 full years in the program, and the 4 year mind-set to match, Lydon could develop into a dominant player, with the ability to take over games and carry the team on his shoulders. Sadly, that will never happen.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Then Lydon needs to stay in school until he's capable of doing it. I get these guys want the immediate payday. But if he leaves too soon he'll be out of the league in a couple of years. NBA coaches are not about developing players, they have to win games now.

I'm not sure where this narrative comes from that the NBA doesn't develop talent. That is crazy to think. So every single 1 and done can only credit their development to themselves?

There's also a notion on this board that if Lydon leaves this year he could be out of the league in <5 years as opposed to him staying 2 more years and the same exact thing can happen.

Let me go down a hypothetical road very quickly here: What if Tyler Lydon was guaranteed to go in the NBA draft at pick 18 after every year. So if he comes out as a FR, SO, JR, or SR he is guaranteed to go 18th. Why wait until your senior year? You strike the iron while it is hot and do what you believe is best for you. If you really think the NBA doesn't develop talent I can guarantee you do not watch it enough

 

[Fly Rodder]

So if he comes out as a FR, SO, JR, or SR he is guaranteed to go 18th. Why wait until your senior year?

Especially since the potential for a real payday comes as a veteran player and every year of service time a player misses out on early, is most likely one less veteran payday at the backend when he can make serious coin. Getting to be a veteran is a separate issue, but that's more on the player's ability and talent than on staying in college for an extra year to beat up on 6'8" centers and power forwards who will never be in the NBA.

 

[OttoMets]

As a sophomore Wallace took 5 free throws per game. Lydon took 3 this year.

Bad job, Lydon.

Obviously Autry was way better than Howard and Gillon, but still. A big man playing 36 minutes a game, shooting 80% from the line, and getting there 3 times a game is inexcusable.

Also, to the broader argument, I don't think there's any comparison between the two. Wallace was a great college player. Lydon's a talented role player.

Edit: by the way, the NBA crap is bringing out the hyper-critic in everyone. 13 and 8 on .480 shooting and .400+ from three is a nice season for a sophomore. Lydon's an asset and it'd be great to see him continue to play at SU.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

As a sophomore Wallace took 5 free throws per game. Lydon took 3 this year.

Bad job, Lydon.

Obviously Autry was way better than Howard and Gillon, but still. A big man playing 36 minutes a game, shooting 80% from the line, and getting there 3 times a game is inexcusable.

Also, to the broader argument, I don't think there's any comparison between the two. Wallace was a great college player. Lydon's a talented role player.

Differing styles of player and offense account for much of that, but your point is valid.

 

[cuseguy]

Definitely...he either goes now or graduates. I agree with many other posters on here that his lack of aggressiveness will always keep him back a bit. And as others have said. He won't be any higher than a third or fourth scoring option on the floor at one time for any NBA teams. He'll get shots. He ever starts missing jumpers though he'll be in trouble because that's all he's got.

He's not playing in the NBA unless his skills improve dramatically.

 

[Cusefan0307]

As a sophomore Wallace took 5 free throws per game. Lydon took 3 this year.

Bad job, Lydon.

Obviously Autry was way better than Howard and Gillon, but still. A big man playing 36 minutes a game, shooting 80% from the line, and getting there 3 times a game is inexcusable.

Also, to the broader argument, I don't think there's any comparison between the two. Wallace was a great college player. Lydon's a talented role player.

Edit: by the way, the NBA crap is bringing out the hyper-critic in everyone. 13 and 8 on .480 shooting and .400+ from three is a nice season for a sophomore. Lydon's an asset and it'd be great to see him continue to play at SU.

Good points, but if Wallace left after his Sophomore year now we would all be saying a lot of the same as we do about Lydon. Not an Alpha(Moten). What could have been? He never would have been around to lead us to a FF in this era.

 

[Funk Doc]

Yea I don't really know how much he improves by coming back. Putting the ball on the floor is never going to be one of his strengths, here or at the next level. He is what he is but the longer he stays the higher the expectations from NBA scouts are for production and the way his game is suited I don't think he's going to see this giant uptick of an extra 6-7 points a game next year.

I will say if he wants any chance of sticking in the league he needs to put a new focus on getting his body right. He doesn't have a great composition right now and you can tell by the way he moves his core isn't that strong.

Yeah, he seemed much quicker last year.

 

[Funk Doc]

He's not playing in the NBA unless his skills improve dramatically.

Agree...one would expect some improvement over the next couple years(where that occurs, I don't know), but I'm not sure the ceiling is as high people thought it would be after last season.(Me included)

My biggest issue with him is still his lack of aggression. It seemed like he had more of it last season as a clueless, playing out of position, freshman. I'm not asking him to go all Devo and jump on the scorers table, but at least give us something! It's just all very puzzling!

Side note...did everyone else love when Devo started talking trash as much as I did???? You knew he was going to go off when he started that!!!

 

[cuse10]

I'm not sure where this narrative comes from that the NBA doesn't develop talent. That is crazy to think. So every single 1 and done can only credit their development to themselves?

There's also a notion on this board that if Lydon leaves this year he could be out of the league in <5 years as opposed to him staying 2 more years and the same exact thing can happen.

Let me go down a hypothetical road very quickly here: What if Tyler Lydon was guaranteed to go in the NBA draft at pick 18 after every year. So if he comes out as a FR, SO, JR, or SR he is guaranteed to go 18th. Why wait until your senior year? You strike the iron while it is hot and do what you believe is best for you. If you really think the NBA doesn't develop talent I can guarantee you do not watch it enough

Yeah, they develop talent, but teams are not as patient as they used to be hence immediate D-League assignments. Those reps aren't making them better as they're playing against guys who will never sniff the pro level. A good landing spot for him would be on a team that has a need and where he can get some minutes even with his limited skill set.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Yeah, they develop talent, but teams are not as patient as they used to be hence immediate D-League assignments. Those reps aren't making them better as they're playing against guys who will never sniff the pro level. A good landing spot for him would be on a team that has a need and where he can get some minutes even with his limited skill set.

So staying for a 3rd or 4th year guarantees he will never see the D League? The D League doesn't develop talent? Yogi Ferrell was in the D League this year. Rookie of the Month for February.

If you're a first round graded player you should go. If you can't stick? That's on you

 

[MSOrange]

I'm not sure where this narrative comes from that the NBA doesn't develop talent. That is crazy to think. So every single 1 and done can only credit their development to themselves?

There's also a notion on this board that if Lydon leaves this year he could be out of the league in <5 years as opposed to him staying 2 more years and the same exact thing can happen.

Let me go down a hypothetical road very quickly here: What if Tyler Lydon was guaranteed to go in the NBA draft at pick 18 after every year. So if he comes out as a FR, SO, JR, or SR he is guaranteed to go 18th. Why wait until your senior year? You strike the iron while it is hot and do what you believe is best for you. If you really think the NBA doesn't develop talent I can guarantee you do not watch it enough

I hope Tyler stays for selfish reasons. But I agree about the narrative about the NBA developing talent. I guess those player development coaches that every NBA team has on their staff just sit their staring into space all day?

 

[cuse10]

So staying for a 3rd or 4th year guarantees he will never see the D League? The D League doesn't develop talent? Yogi Ferrell was in the D League this year. Rookie of the Month for February.

If you're a first round graded player you should go. If you can't stick? That's on you

How did you twist my words into that? Please tell me how.

 

[Orange2389]

after 8 pages of discussion, it comes down to this. lydon either likes college or not.

/thread

 

[CuseFaninVT]

after 8 pages of discussion, it comes down to this. lydon either likes college or not.

/thread

Not really. More factors involved.