Malachi

[Fat tire 13]

They keep gettin' dem checks either way.

Mali is making the exact same amount of $ now, as if he was a starter on the Warriors.

Yeah, yeah - 'second contract' - but; you can't get the 2nd one, if you never had the first.
Meanwhile, he's going to make more $ in 2-3 years, than 90%+ of a Syracuse grads make in their ENTIRE LIFETIMES.

And, he can always go back to school to get his degree later, after his playing career is over.

Exactly. It depends on your viewpoint. From a fan's viewpoint, it sucks. Maybe we are recruiting the wrong people. That is an interesting, separate debate. From a player's viewpoint, these high school kids see all these other guys getting drafted in the first round. Looking back, who do you think could have improved their draft position even further by staying another year? Jerami Grant comes to mind, but he had family members in the NBA. Extra guidance others don't have. Everyone else was arguably drafted too high from the NBA team's perspective. Ennis, Flynn, etc. Who stayed? CJ Fair. He went second round, wasn't NBA material. He didn't even look like a starter in Boeheim's Army either.

 

[jncuse]

Colson would have left after his soph year because he showed potential. Then would have spent last year and a half in the DG League and likely been traded so no one knows what team he's even on. But his injury now is proof he should have left for the money. Because that is all that matters.

I don't think Colson has ever been considered a first round draft pick. So he wasn't leaving for the money. His body type / position works against him.

 

[Knicks411]

Here are all of the UNC Mickey D's since 2010. It's more than you would think that stay 3 or 4 years.

2016 Tony Bradley Bartow, FL One year
2014 Theo Pinson Greensboro, NC Four years
2014 Joel Berry Apopka, FL Four years
2014 Justin Jackson Tomball, TX Three years
2013 Isaiah Hicks Oxford, NC Four years
2013 Kennedy Meeks Charlotte, NC Four years
2012 Marcus Paige Marion, IA Four years
2011 P.J. Hairston Greensboro, NC Two years
2011 James Michael McAdoo Norfolk, VA Three years
2010 Harrison Barnes Ames, IA Two years
2010 Reggie Bullock Kinston, NC Three years
2010 Kendall Marshall Dumfries, NC Two years

That is pretty impressive.

Flip side of that, a lot of those guys stayed for 3-4 years and it isn't like they were drafted really high in the draft.

 

[jncuse]

Mickey D's are generally the top recruits. So should the argument be that Syracuse develops their recruits better or faster than UNC. But not sure how to quantify your argument.

How many people thought High School/Prep School Tyler Lydon was a 1st round pick.

Not sure if that is the argument. But your point on us developing or showcasing the players ability quickly still is quite valid. Even players that did not get a chance or sucked as frosh, quickly showcased their abilities as soph's (Waiters, Melo, MCW).

If you are an NBA level talent you will get a chance to showcase it in your first 2 years at Syracuse.

 

[SoBeCuse]

That is pretty impressive.

Flip side of that, a lot of those guys stayed for 3-4 years and it isn't like they were drafted really high in the draft.

True. The majority of either UNC/Syracuse’s drafted players end up in the DLeague or Europe. Just wish that our guys would stay in school as long as theirs do.

 

[Knicks411]

True. The majority of either UNC/Syracuse’s drafted players end up in the DLeague or Europe. Just wish that our guys would stay in school as long as theirs do.

Sure, me too, but it does go against the argument that by staying in school you'll dramatically increase your draft stock

 

[Fly Rodder]

Just wish that our guys would stay in school as long as theirs do.

Well, that presupposes that everything UNC is doing is on the up and up. I mean, is UNC the only school where McD AAs stay 3 & 4 years? I think it was originally about UK, but maybe going to the NBA would be a paycut for these guys.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Sure, me too, but it does go against the argument that by staying in school you'll dramatically increase your draft stock

True of course. Brice Johnson wasn’t even mentioned. Maybe they aren’t so worried about it. It was interesting what Griffin was saying in the show last night filling in for Boeheim. So many factors. I think two factors have to remain constant for all these players who stay. Even if the families really need the money...liking the college experience and perhaps most importantly liking or believing in the system/coach you play in for your team. Some of those Nova and UNC players talked about coming back wanting to win a title. I just wonder how much fun our players have in the systems they are in. Impossible to say really unless you actually ask some players. Maybe it truly is all about the money and I’ve never called out any of our players for leaving early ever. But, would I be surprised if some players get tired of playing all zone and the offensive system? Certainly not.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Well, that presupposes that everything UNC is doing is on the up and up. I mean, is UNC the only school where McD AAs stay 3 & 4 years? I think it was originally about UK, but maybe going to the NBA would be a paycut for these guys.

Right! Who knows. I think most of these players at any big time school (even Syracuse) more or less get the same things and star treatment. Speculating of course but that’s what I believe.

 

[reedny]

You can't pick where you get drafted, but if you end up in Toronto's farm team you are typically going to develop as well or quite possibly better than in Syracuse.

I know this will blow the mind of some.

Sure, if you're definition of "develop" is as narrow as a slip of paper.

 

[jncuse]

Sure, if you're definition of "develop" is as narrow as a slip of paper.

No deal.

 

[knicks07]

The primary motivator for this deal for Toronto was saving $900,000 off their team payroll, which will allow Toronto to sign a buy-out player down the stretch without going into the Luxury Tax.

All that being said, I am sure they look at Malachi as a future asset that they can develop properly in the G-League. He is not going to get a shot in Toronto anytime soon, but Toronto does as good a job as anybody in the NBA in effectively using the G-League (resources, training, access to coaching)

This trade can only benefit Malachi. Sacramento is a disaster that had about 6 shooting guards and no idea how to develop players. Toronto is a much better run organization that does a real good job of player development, especially with guards....DeRozan, Van Vleet, Wright, and even Lowery to an extent have all improved in the past few years there. I hope Mal can develop to that point and replace someone
like Powell in the rotation in the future.

 

[longtimefan]

Exactly. It depends on your viewpoint. From a fan's viewpoint, it sucks. Maybe we are recruiting the wrong people. That is an interesting, separate debate. From a player's viewpoint, these high school kids see all these other guys getting drafted in the first round. Looking back, who do you think could have improved their draft position even further by staying another year? Jerami Grant comes to mind, but he had family members in the NBA. Extra guidance others don't have. Everyone else was arguably drafted too high from the NBA team's perspective. Ennis, Flynn, etc. Who stayed? CJ Fair. He went second round, wasn't NBA material. He didn't even look like a starter in Boeheim's Army either.

Re: Grant
The killer there was that his brother stayed 4 years at ND.

 

[Waltdods]

Here are all of the UNC Mickey D's since 2010. It's more than you would think that stay 3 or 4 years.

2016 Tony Bradley Bartow, FL One year
2014 Theo Pinson Greensboro, NC Four years
2014 Joel Berry Apopka, FL Four years
2014 Justin Jackson Tomball, TX Three years
2013 Isaiah Hicks Oxford, NC Four years
2013 Kennedy Meeks Charlotte, NC Four years
2012 Marcus Paige Marion, IA Four years
2011 P.J. Hairston Greensboro, NC Two years
2011 James Michael McAdoo Norfolk, VA Three years
2010 Harrison Barnes Ames, IA Two years
2010 Reggie Bullock Kinston, NC Three years
2010 Kendall Marshall Dumfries, NC Two years

But this list really isn't any different than Syracuse's, see below. UNC's average tenure is 3.0 years. Syracuse's is 2.3. (I went back further because there are obviously fewer Syracuse guys. Starting with 2002 seems fair as before that early departures were rarer.) There's a difference, but it's not a particularly big one.

2015
Malachi Richardson

One year

2012
DaJuan Coleman

Four (really five) years

2011
Rakeem Christmas Academy of the New Church

Four years

Michael Carter-Williams

Two years

2010
Fab Melo

Two years

2007
Jonny Flynn

Two years

Donte' Greene

One year

2005
Eric Devendorf

Four years

2002
Carmelo Anthony

One year

 

[SUFan44]

But this list really isn't any different than Syracuse's, see below. UNC's average tenure is 3.0 years. Syracuse's is 2.3. (I went back further because there are obviously fewer Syracuse guys. Starting with 2002 seems fair as before that early departures were rarer.) There's a difference, but it's not a particularly big one.

2015
Malachi Richardson

One year

2012
DaJuan Coleman

Four (really five) years

2011
Rakeem Christmas Academy of the New Church

Four years

Michael Carter-Williams

Two years

2010
Fab Melo

Two years

2007
Jonny Flynn

Two years

Donte' Greene

One year

2005
Eric Devendorf

Four years

2002
Carmelo Anthony

One year

Non-Mickey D players can leave early, too. And ours leave at a higher rate than any in the country (allegedly).

 

[cliftonparksufan]

But this list really isn't any different than Syracuse's, see below. UNC's average tenure is 3.0 years. Syracuse's is 2.3. (I went back further because there are obviously fewer Syracuse guys. Starting with 2002 seems fair as before that early departures were rarer.) There's a difference, but it's not a particularly big one.

2015
Malachi Richardson

One year

2012
DaJuan Coleman

Four (really five) years

2011
Rakeem Christmas Academy of the New Church

Four years

Michael Carter-Williams

Two years

2010
Fab Melo

Two years

2007
Jonny Flynn

Two years

Donte' Greene

One year

2005
Eric Devendorf

Four years

2002
Carmelo Anthony

One year

Right, but for kicks and giggles, let's pretend that the Micky D's are the best recruits in the land. UNC is getting a lot of them and finding a way to keep them. The only logical reason is that NBA people are not waving millions of dollars in their faces (unless they are and it's Carolina Blue dollars). If we had that quantity (percentage is not really the issue, it's the quantity of better players) of highly rated recruits stay, we would have more recent success. It's a tough nut to crack. UNC and Nova are finding ways to get it done and schools that have had a lot of ones and dones are not. And then when you start having non-Mickey D's start leaving after a couple of years, then you are really screwed. Throw in scholarship reductions, etc and it's not a good recipe. OMG, i've worked myself into the cocktail zone.

 

[Waltdods]

Right, but for kicks and giggles, let's pretend that the Micky D's are the best recruits in the land. UNC is getting a lot of them and finding a way to keep them. The only logical reason is that NBA people are not waving millions of dollars in their faces (unless they are and it's Carolina Blue dollars). If we had that quantity (percentage is not really the issue, it's the quantity of better players) of highly rated recruits stay, we would have more recent success. It's a tough nut to crack. UNC and Nova are finding ways to get it done and schools that have had a lot of ones and dones are not. And then when you start having non-Mickey D's start leaving after a couple of years, then you are really screwed. Throw in scholarship reductions, etc and it's not a good recipe. OMG, i've worked myself into the cocktail zone.

Sure, if the point is that Syracuse would be better if it had better players, this is unquestionably true. But I thought the point being made about UNC's All-Americans is that UNC got them to stay while Syracuse doesn't. Controlling for player quality, I don't think UNC keeps guys any better than anyone else. They've had a lot of McDonalds All-Americans who aren't high-level NBA prospects. Syracuse has had some guys who just fell short of McDonalds status who are legit NBA prospects.

My general view is that people are massively over-responding to the last few years, where Syracuse had some bad luck, some bad sanctions, and some bad players. 2009-13 wasn't that long ago!

 

[Knicks411]

Is it also possible its more fun to play for Roy Williams than Jim Boeheim? Not saying it's the deciding factor in every case, but maybe in a few marginal cases?

 

[Waltdods]

Non-Mickey D players can leave early, too. And ours leave at a higher rate than any in the country (allegedly).

Ok, but this is a different argument and also wrong.

Since 2014 Syracuse has had three non-McDs leave early - Ennis Grant Lydon. Louisville (which was the second team I looked at) has had at least four - Mitchell, Onuaku Rozier Harrell.