Marek drawn charge

[Cowtown]

I’m thrilled with the call. But it wasn’t close to perfect position

It was pretty much a 50-50 on who got to the spot first, but as noted above, the Gtown player put his head down/lowered his shoulder however you want to describe it and that was the difference. An absolute bonehead play by Gtown, especially with that much time left.

 

[Cowtown]

It made up for the bad charge call that fouled Frank out

You might say that if the charge MD drew was a bad call, but it really didn't look that way to me.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

But you’d concur Dole was moving right?

I believe my first post in this thread accurately describes my opinion of the action in the play

 

[tbonezone]

it's a huge call at a pivotal point of the game.

 

[jncuse]

I personally think it was a block.

But it was the perfect gamble. At this point, you either had to aggressively go for a turnover (usually that means a steal), but going charge seeking will also stop the clock and potentially get you the ball..

 

[sutomcat]

Nah, kid lowered his shoulder if you watch the replay. Refs call that a charge 9 times out of 10

Yes. When a player with the ball lowers his shoulder and slaps directly into a defensive player, it will always be called a charge. This was a good call any objective fan of college basketball will agree with. Looked like the kid double dribbled as well. You can’t run around completely out of control with the ball. It is rule one of basketball.

 

[JOC44]

It was called a charge because the Gtown player lowered his shoulder into Marek. It would have been a block if he didn’t do that because Marek slid a half second too late.

^^^This^^^

 

[tbonezone]

i believe some of the points above being made is there would be absolute total outrage and not "he lowered his shoulder" if the jersey's were reversed. it would be a chorus of refs give hoyas win.
(FWIW it looked like on the replay of tyus's trey the kid didn't touch him. but maybe i'm wrong.)

 

[djcon57]

Will remember these posts when we get hosed on this exact call

 

[djcon57]

I believe my first post in this thread accurately describes my opinion of the action in the play

Sorry didn’t see you mention that.

 

[Cowtown]

Will remember these posts when we get hosed on this exact call

It looks like you're implying that Gtown "got hosed" on that call and I don't think that's what happened. Just IMHO.

 

[JoeSU]

Nah, kid lowered his shoulder if you watch the replay. Refs call that a charge 9 times out of 10

Your explanation makes sense, because on the replay it looked like Marek slid over and wasn't totally set.

 

[djcon57]

It looks like you're implying that Gtown "got hosed" on that call and I don't think that's what happened. Just IMHO.

Don’t assume things. We got the correct call because on how refs call the charge in college basketball. I don’t agree with how they call it

 

[OrangeDW]

i believe some of the points above being made is there would be absolute total outrage and not "he lowered his shoulder" if the jersey's were reversed. it would be a chorus of refs give hoyas win.
(FWIW it looked like on the replay of tyus's trey the kid didn't touch him. but maybe i'm wrong.)

Agreed, but that’s the way it goes. Syracuse won and you’re just going to have to accept that.

 

[tbonezone]

i haven't yet watched a replay. i do know marek was moving left and not set . someone remind me where his arms were. in defensive position or down in draw a charge position ? was he playing defense or trying to block ? i guess the arms would tell the story.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

i haven't yet watched a replay. i do know marek was moving left and not set . someone remind me where his arms were. in defensive position or down in draw a charge position ? was he playing defense or trying to block ? i guess the arms would tell the story.

Arms were down crossed against his body in “charge taking” position

 

[kmart128]

Agree. We got one there, but not unusual for how they call it in college.

Didn't really get one... The offensive player literally picked up the ball, lowered his shoulder and tried to truck Marek with no play towards the bucket. In position or not it's an automatic offensive foul when the offensive player lowers his shoulder like that. More of a dumb play by the GTown player rather than a good play by Marek.

 

[tbonezone]

Arms were down crossed against his body in “charge taking” position

if that's case definitely blocking call. imo. so much for the vast ref conspiracy theory.

 

[Cowtown]

if that's case definitely blocking call. imo. so much for the vast ref conspiracy theory.

Actually that's the preferred position. The defender is allowed to protect himself and that's how it's done. Also there's no argument whether the defender pushed or grabbed the offensive player.

For the record, the rule states that after a player has established legal guarding position, he can move to maintain it. In the NCAA, they want at least one foot on the floor. So the defender can be moving and still draw a charge, as long as those conditions are met.

 

[tbonezone]

i'm cloudy there . moving and established new position ? moving with just one foot on the floor totally eliminates the blocking call altogether. regardless looked like a block and quacked like a block.

 

[Cowtown]

i'm cloudy there . move and establish new position ? moving with just one foot on the floor totally eliminates the blocking call altogether. regardless looked like a block and quacked like a block.

The theory behind that part of the rule is you can't play defense standing still.

So with that in mind, to answer your question, "move to maintain position" does not imply establishing "new position." So as long as you've established LGP in the first place, you can move to maintain it. Maintain means you never gave it up in the first place.

The critical component is that you (the defender) keep facing your man. But as soon as you turn your hips/shoulders to move with the offensive player, you've given up LGP and must then re-establish it in the same way described above. Otherwise the responsibility for any contact is on you (the defender).

The problem is that it often happens so fast that refs can get it wrong. But they're right a lot more than people think. The second problem is fans don't understand the rule - remember it's different in the NBA - and invariably interpret in partisan terms. That's just basketball.

 

[tbonezone]

but arms crossed in front isn't defense. that's drawing a charge. and it's a moving violation.

 

[Cowtown]

but arms crossed in front isn't defense. that's drawing a charge. and it's a moving violation.

Yeah, it is. The defensive player has a cylinder, and in that position his arms are inside it. Perfectly legal.

Look, tbone, you're okay by me, and I'm not picking a fight with you. It's just that I've reffed off and on over 40 years and have seen a lot of changes in the rules over that time. There are a few things I know and can share to maybe help others understand a little more about what's going on. Go Orange!

 

[tbonezone]

i'm cool . and it worked in our favor. and i do respect your knowledge and incites. but if moving laterally into someones path with your arms down not defending and with no position established isn't a blocking call then i'm afraid there is no such animal anymore. that's why i asked about the arms. your explanation makes every call a charge.

 

[HOFCeluck]

All I know is that if that had been called a charge if the teams had been reversed I’d be apoplectic and there’d be five threads on how the refs affected the outcome of the game.