McDonald

[nzm136]

I don't blame SS for demoting McDonald but I wonder now if he would have been better off promoting Lester to co-offensive coordinator and just keeping McDonald's title thru the year. Plenty of teams have co-coordinators. I give SS credit for making a change but McDonald's demotion leak created this storm.

I think that the move was for the fans. He wanted to show that it wasn't good enough and that he was doing something about it. Making a Co-OC might have sent a weak signal. I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just think that was probably the logic.

 

[Cusejuicy]

Ok. Maybe HCSS made a mistake. We all do from time to time but in the end he was man enough to do the right thing, friend or no friend, for the team. Let's move on. Time will tell if it was a good move or if we have bigger problems.

 

[anomander]

I think that the move was for the fans. He wanted to show that it wasn't good enough and that he was doing something about it. Making a Co-OC might have sent a weak signal. I don't necessarily disagree with you. I just think that was probably the logic.

I don't know about that. If our HC is making mid-season coaching moves just to appease a rather small fan base then he is definitely not the man for the job.

 

[Alsacs]

This has nothing to do with anything in this thread, but I always get a chuckle when I see Shafer abbreviated to SS. In light of the Jewish tradition at SU and Shafer's German heritage. (I'm going to see myself out now)

Good catch I will go with HCSS just to avoid any confusion. Its better to be safe than sorry.

 

[TheCusian]

I don't know about that. If our HC is making mid-season coaching moves just to appease a rather small fan base then he is definitely not the man for the job.

Had the same thought reading Nunes Magician half-heartedly suggest their weekly play calling article led to his demotion.

It was an internal decision.

 

[CIL]

imo he is vastly over rated. I know we were never pulling 4 stars in, but afraid to lose McDonald because he is some ace recruiter is ridiculous. Whoever we had recruiting down there could have pulled those guys. I am not worried about losing him one bit.

Estime - Fell into our lap. Nobody would take him because he was an academic risk. He had no other options.

Ish - Took officials to Illinois, Pitt, and Louisville. We have beat all those schools before. I'll give him Ish though he is his best recruit.

Edouard - Let's see if he actually makes it here.

Avant - Has yet to prove anything yet, and is another academic risk that fell into our lap after he got qualified late and everyone elses classes were full.

Cordy - He's 5'8 didn't take anything special to get him

McDonald's pull this year is all 2 star kids with no other offers. Sorry, but to labeled a "great" recruiter you better be bringing in kids that we wouldn't normally get. Not to mention all of this is with brand new facilities.


Shafer's relationships is how we got Eskridge. Shafer also got Desir who was just as highly rated a recruit as Ishmael, even better at places. James Washington was a solid pull at the time, didn't pan out. Whigham is going to be a 4 year contributor and 2 year starter.

imo the best recruiter we have right now (results wise) is our new OC Tim Lester.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Despite what your premium subscriptions to serves tell you, schools put out feelers to committed kids all the time to see if they will flip or have desire to visit. This rarely, if ever goes reported on websites.

When I coached we had a young man committed to a mid level ACC school. The young man's father played at Georgia. He stated to me to turn away any coaching staff that calls for info unless it was UGA. Well, the young man had a very good senior season but never got the call from UGA. Other top 25 programs in the south east came calling, but we turned them all away.

According to your philosophy, he was reported by the services as a 2 star with 2 offers. He could have had close to a dozen if he wanted to. There is an underworld to recruiting that very few on this board can appreciate, no matter how many twitter handles you follow or premium articles will read. I will tell you many of the names you mentioned above had opportunities to see some other schools but did not.

GMac may be gruff and struggled as an OC, but if you ask his peers they will tell you he is one of the best in the business when it comes to recruiting.

 

[baggerbob]

Shafer is a good man and is not as bad and unprepared as Greg Robinson he got the HC job IMO because Marrone left so late in college football coaching carousel that most potential candidates were gone. I like Shafer but he guy never oozed head coach while he was our defensive coordinator. I want him to succeed but he has has many frustrating moments but is loyal to our program. I believe if Marrone left a little more high end talent he would have been able to so better. Shafer had depth but the playmakers on both sides of the ball was not that great.
Shafer hired buddies and while he is 9-9 we are 1-4 against non-conference P5 teams, 4-5 in ACC games, 4-0 against non-P5 OOC games. Not exactly extension worthy numbers.

Marrone was 11-17 in 4 years in the Big East, so obviously we weren't overly talented going into a new conference.

 

[Statesman1]

When I coached we had a young man committed to a mid level ACC school. The young man's father played at Georgia. He stated to me to turn away any coaching staff that calls for info unless it was UGA. Well, the young man had a very good senior season but never got the call from UGA. Other top 25 programs in the south east came calling, but we turned them all away.

According to your philosophy, he was reported by the services as a 2 star with 2 offers. He could have had close to a dozen if he wanted to. There is an underworld to recruiting that very few on this board can appreciate, no matter how many twitter handles you follow or premium articles will read. I will tell you many of the names you mentioned above had opportunities to see some other schools but did not.

GMac may be gruff and struggled as an OC, but if you ask his peers they will tell you he is one of the best in the business when it comes to recruiting.[/QUOTE]

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Despite what your premium subscriptions to serves tell you, schools put out feelers to committed kids all the time to see if they will flip or have desire to visit. This rarely, if ever goes reported on websites.

When I coached we had a young man committed to a mid level ACC school. The young man's father played at Georgia. He stated to me to turn away any coaching staff that calls for info unless it was UGA. Well, the young man had a very good senior season but never got the call from UGA. Other top 25 programs in the south east came calling, but we turned them all away.

According to your philosophy, he was reported by the services as a 2 star with 2 offers. He could have had close to a dozen if he wanted to. There is an underworld to recruiting that very few on this board can appreciate, no matter how many twitter handles you follow or premium articles will read. I will tell you many of the names you mentioned above had opportunities to see some other schools but did not.

GMac may be gruff and struggled as an OC, but if you ask his peers they will tell you he is one of the best in the business when it comes to recruiting.

That's a nice story- but can anyone fairly say that any of the players Anomander mentioned are not the type of player that we would have gotten had McDonald not been involved? They are nice players, but it's not like any of them were out of our league until McDonald arrived.

 

[WickedOrange]

A few off-the-cuff remarks that you later apologize for?

Come on McDonald... weak sauce.

If you want to raise hell, make a statement. Take a dump on Shafer's desk, smash a few monitors and wrestle with the security guard on the way out the door.


Disclaimer: Sorry, I have nothing constructive to add to this thread.

 

[anomander]

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Despite what your premium subscriptions to serves tell you, schools put out feelers to committed kids all the time to see if they will flip or have desire to visit. This rarely, if ever goes reported on websites.

When I coached we had a young man committed to a mid level ACC school. The young man's father played at Georgia. He stated to me to turn away any coaching staff that calls for info unless it was UGA. Well, the young man had a very good senior season but never got the call from UGA. Other top 25 programs in the south east came calling, but we turned them all away.

According to your philosophy, he was reported by the services as a 2 star with 2 offers. He could have had close to a dozen if he wanted to. There is an underworld to recruiting that very few on this board can appreciate, no matter how many twitter handles you follow or premium articles will read. I will tell you many of the names you mentioned above had opportunities to see some other schools but did not.

GMac may be gruff and struggled as an OC, but if you ask his peers they will tell you he is one of the best in the business when it comes to recruiting.

Well aware how the recruiting world works. We will agree to disagree.

 

[anomander]

When I coached we had a young man committed to a mid level ACC school. The young man's father played at Georgia. He stated to me to turn away any coaching staff that calls for info unless it was UGA. Well, the young man had a very good senior season but never got the call from UGA. Other top 25 programs in the south east came calling, but we turned them all away.

According to your philosophy, he was reported by the services as a 2 star with 2 offers. He could have had close to a dozen if he wanted to. There is an underworld to recruiting that very few on this board can appreciate, no matter how many twitter handles you follow or premium articles will read. I will tell you many of the names you mentioned above had opportunities to see some other schools but did not.

GMac may be gruff and struggled as an OC, but if you ask his peers they will tell you he is one of the best in the business when it comes to recruiting.

That's a nice story- but can anyone fairly say that any of the players Anomander mentioned are not the type of player that we would have gotten had McDonald not been involved? They are nice players, but it's not like any of them were out of our league until McDonald arrived.[/QUOTE]

That is exactly my point. Glad someone got it.

 

[Cuseregular]

One thing is that McDonalds rant gave Shafer took control over the relationship. Two things have reduced his worth in the marketplace, the fact that his close friend had to take him out of the booth 18 months and his mouth.

He needs to suck it up and be a good solider, do his job, and rebuild his marketability.

Based on what we have seen in his performance, including some sure signs of having basic problems performing on game day and what seem to be reasonably well informed and credible comments about what has transpired in Manley recently and in the coaches box Friday night, he struggled with the pressure and content of the job.

He needs to decompress, focus on his job, have input without the responsibility, coach up his receivers, and recruit his ass off.

I think he can still add a lot. If Shafer is sincere and they have settled all business no reason to cut him loose at this point. Shafer needs to build him back up as much as he needs to build up Ben Lewis. Let's see how resilient they all are and turn this into a positive.

great post Steve.

 

[statsgrad]

That's a nice story- but can anyone fairly say that any of the players Anomander mentioned are not the type of player that we would have gotten had McDonald not been involved? They are nice players, but it's not like any of them were out of our league until McDonald arrived.

That is exactly my point. Glad someone got it.[/QUOTE]


I view it as sort of like wins above replacement in baseball. I think anomander is right in that McDonalds recruits will essentially provide our program with no additional wins relative to the recruits that we might have taken otherwise without McDonald. He's gotten some "very nice under the radar guys" which is exactly what I think we would get had Lester been the OC from day 1 -- just they might have been under the radar midwest guys instead of under the radar Florida guys.

This does not imply that some of our under the radar guys didn't get big time interest late in the process or aren't quality players, it just implies that there isn't really a huge talent gap between what McDonald brought in and what we were/will bring in without him. I think that the gap is very much small enough that it will be more than made up for with quality play calling (assuming we get that).

 

[ORRange]

Syracuse football's Scott Shafer, George McDonald clarify that demotion discussion was in person (PS)

Syracuse, N.Y. — Syracuse head coach Scott Shafer and wide receivers coach George McDonald clarified that their discussion on Saturday night in which Shafer told McDonald that he would be demoted from offensive coordinator/associate head coach, was in person at Manley Field House in separate phone calls to Syracuse.com on Wednesday.

McDonald said he was "misconstrued" on Tuesday night when he indicated that the decision was issued over the phone.

Shafer said the two exchanged a couple text messages earlier in the afternoon while Shafer was at Ithaca College watching his son, Wolfgang, play football. Shafer asked McDonald to meet that evening to discuss how the coaching staff could improve its offense.

So McDonald was "misconstrued" . He wasn't lying? Right. So was Shafer "misconstrued" or was he lying? Right or Wrong? Who's on first? McDonald is a liar.......fire his arse. Employees do not make the boss out to be a liar. Bottom line get out your resume. You cannot have a person working for you that will throw you under the bus under any circumstance. See you George.

 

[Orangepace]

The more I think about it I hope Syverud has had enough and just cleans house. This program needs a better leader on and off the field.

If this happens, Syverud better get ready to open the pocket book because you don't clean house and just have people clawing at your door to get the job. If he's going to be bold, he has to commit to it.

What is the negative-recruiting angle against him? What would you tell prospects?

This a joke?!?! How about, "You're being recruited by McDonald?! He's not even going to be in Syracuse next year."

 

[Orangetradition44]

Would he deserve the demotion if he froze during the game? Couldn't / wouldn't call a play? Had to have someone else on the staff step in and start calling plays? Hell, maybe a player had to call a damn play? would that be an immediate demotable offense in your eyes? It wasn't the results of these games that caused this to happen (although they contributed). SOMETHING happened during the game Friday night.

I will always believe there was WAY more to this demotion than we'll ever know. I’d think there would have been a meeting of the minds before it got to the demotion level (the football staff version of a PIP) and I’m guessing there have been many conversations. Something doesn’t add up. (so maybe someone 'had' to be demoted because he wouldn't move over and share).

 

[dinosaurbbq]

It's one thing to fail on the field for whatever reason. But the handling of this type of issue - in the public eye - to me is completely inexcusable. Shows we don't have our ish together from a organizational stand point - not just the football program, but the athletic department and University. Shame on everyone for how this seems to be playing out.

Pretty sure this is only going to get worse before it gets better via a cleaning of the house.

Sigh.

I don't get this at all and therefore obviously disagree. How can SU, the athletic department or the football program control whether George McDonald talks to the press in this manner? Shame on everyone? Shame on who other than GMD?

 

[dinosaurbbq]

This has been a debacle since Friday night. Shafer didn't handle this the way SUAD would have preferred him to, but this by McDonald is totally unacceptable, and immature.

What should HCSS have done differently in the eyes of the SUAD? He recognized a significant problem that almost everyone on this board recognized and took a decisive step to fix the problem. I'm unaware of what you are talking about.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Can you say mess? I'm sorry but this is on the head coach. He hires all his friends and not neccesarily the best people. Then when they are not good enough, he demotes them and feelings are hurt not only from a professional stand point but personally. Hard to see this not dividing the locker room and coaching staff.

Said from the beginning I wasn't sure if Shafer was a head coach, so far results have been mixed. Go to salvage this season somehow and that means getting back to power run.

Come on, man! To the extent it is on the head coach every time he makes a hire that doesn't work out, I agree to some extent although I'm willing to cut a coach some slack for not possibly being able to see the future to know it will work out and because he was working within a definite shortfall of economic resources in said hiring. With that said, I've hired several people who didn't work out and I fired them. That happens in every walk of life. HCSS isn't any more of a future predictor than you or me.

To the extent this post blames HCSS for hiring people he'd worked with in the past and liked, I disagree. I don't know of anyone Shafer could have gotten to come here that would have been more successful and neither do you. I agree Shafer's results are mixed and he deserves some criticism on some issues for the failings on the football field and whether he ends up a successful long-term coach here or not is still up in the air. I also agree we need to go power run right now.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Do you know your friends personalities?

This is the first time GMD has ever been fired. You don't know how someone is going to take being fired. You can't know it unless you've seen him failing before and then told he isn't good enough. Unfair to expect otherwise.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Remember when this board, including me, thought this was a home run hire? Didn't people here even give him the Cool Kid nickname? Remember when everyone fawned over his recruiting prowess even if they weren't 4 and 5 star kids because well, the star system is stupid and our recruits are all better than given credit for.

Yes I do and I actually am still proud of what he's done on the recruiting trail. I still think many of those kids will be upgraded before signing day. The fact that we had 25 kids signed up by June or whatever is a big positive. I didn't figure GMD was going to wrangle kids away from Alabama or Auburn. I still believe the talent we are bringing in is better than what we had in recent years. Obviously that is due to a whole host of reasons and not just GMD, but I give the guy credit.
The price we paid him to come here (OC and Asst. HC) proved to be too much. That's ok. I think we all knew it was a gamble and I think HCSS did too. We lost the gamble. There are a whole lot of additional gambles we made that we may lose too or we may win those gambles and end up paying a bargain for guys that turn out to be good recruiters and good coaches. I hope they work out.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Nick Saban doesn't let his assistants talk to the media at all. You would like to think something like this wouldn't happen when you are dealing with supposed adults, but just something I read this past weekend that came to mind after this ordeal.

Nick Saban couldn't control GMD in this situation other than to say to him after he says this kind of stupid crap -- "Hey, you aren't helping yourself or hurting me by making these comments. If you want another chance at another place, your best bet is to quiet down, stay here through the year and prove yourself to be a good recruiter and good WR coach and then either stay or go." I bet Shafer said something along the same lines to GMD and that was what resulted in his apology and coming to work with the WR Monday. Either Shafer or someone else did.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

When McDonald was hired, I assumed that he fit the mold of what Shafer preaches, a leader of young men. On top of that we were told that he was a great recruiter with unmatched connections in south Florida. As it turns out, he is not the leader that I presumed, it is disappointing that Coach Shafer didn't realize this.

I just re-read a bunch of articles about Shafer's reaction when he got fired as DC at Michigan. Its a little different, because Shafer was fired at the end of the year, which has to be a lot easier to deal with. However, Shafer repeatedly said he resigned and that his HC Rich Rod is the greatest coach in college football and Shafer himself just wasn't a good fit at Michigan. Shafer dealt with it a lot better than I would expect I would. You can't know what the reaction is going to be. Shafer couldn't possibly have known, therefore, he doesn't deserve your criticism. In the end, GMD may move forward and do very good things for SU the rest of this year, recruiting and otherwise.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

After watching the actual video of the quotes it's not as bad as the tweets made it look. I think the guy just doesn't have that filter you need to have. His past tweet arguments just make it all the more clear. He is an emotional guy and says what's on his mind. He may still have to go depending how the school and staff feel but it wasn't the all out anger the individual quotes made it look like.

I agree with this. He actually sounded rational and positive to me on moving forward and helping the offense improve. He obviously is bothered. I would be devastated and would go into my man cave for a few months and not come out.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Clearly not the right play is an understatement- but I can't give a pass on George on this one either. What kind of leader throws his player under the bus like that even if true? He should have owned it and protected his player instead of stabbing Hunt in the back--better yet as OC he could have better prepared Hunt to not call that audible. I'm beginning to wish he stayed at Arkansas too--

And what is Hunt simply isn't capable of understanding that calling a sweep there is disastrous? I am of that belief based on his play to date this year.