My experience as a BC bball season ticket holder

[JimBoston]

First, I'm not attacking your move to the ACC as it makes financial sense as it did when BC moved to the ACC, but I wanted to share my experience as a BC basketball season ticket holder.

I shared BC bball season tickets with another fan for almost 20 years. We bought the tickets because we were huge Big East basketball fans and it was easy to buy Big East tourney tickets through BC. We had great seats and we were very content. We never had a problem finding friends or relatives to join us for the UConn, Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Providence, and St. john's games. (Pitt being good at basketball is very recent as they weren't very good when they first joined the BE.). When the BE added VT, Miami, and Rutgers, those games became the hard conference games to get friends and family interested in attending. My wife saw more of these teams than any other BE school.

BC does not have strong basketball fan support, but the fans came out for the big BE games.

When BC went to the ACC, the first year everyone was excited to see Duke and UNC, until we realized they wouldn't be coming very often. You get Duke and UNC at home a little over 1x per year. Year 1, only Duke showed up. Asking friends to go to games was almost impossible as there was no interest in seeing most of the ACC schools. They all said, call me when either Duke or UNC are coming.

We dropped our season tickets after the first year in the ACC. Looking at BC's attendance, I would we weren't alone. The move to the ACC was not for basketball.

Look at this year's home schedule: UNH, Penn St, BU, Stony Brook, Bryant, Sacred Heart, Harvard, URI, Clemson, VT, Wake Forrest, Miami, NC St, Florida St, Duke, and Georgia Tech. Would you buy a season ticket to that? Would you go to Greensboro over NYC for the conference tourney? Neither would I.

Here are some recommendations that you need to force upon your AD: You can not move a Duke or UNC game to MSG period. Clemson, VT, Miami, move them wherever you what. Schedule traditional rivals like Villanova, Georgetown, UConn, St. John's every year. Even try for home and homes in a given year. It will keep up fan interest and increase your schedule strength. Push for an ACC tourney in the Northeast every 4 years. If the BE doesn't fold, which it probably won't, it won't be in MSG, but it could be in Brooklyn, or how about Syracuse?

Good luck as I think Syracuse basketball will do well in the ACC. I'm not so sure about Pitt as they have lived off NY talent and they won't be playing much in NYC in the future.

 

[SaintTristan]

I really don't get this at all. There is no downside to the new schedule. Playing ncsu is no worse than playing cinnci or depaul. And playing the rat bastards at duke every year is infinitely better than anyone we play.

Will we play less ranked teams each yr? Sure. But the ACC teams wil all benefit from the destruction of the big eastmand thus this won't last for long. You guys suck and that will never change, but other ACC teams will get better.

Do agree that we should continue to play sju and gtown. Could care less about the rest of that crap comference.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Is it just me or was this BC fan, who came here with some good & respectful advice & attitude, being treated in a somewhat rude manner?
He's offering his take on lessons learned as an ACC member, and frankly, I think we would be wise to heed it.
If he'd been an A-hole about it, I could understand, but do we really need to be so rude?

Thank you, Jim Boston, for the courteous heads-up.

 

[JimBoston]

Didn't want to upset anyone as I have a lot of SU friends as I used to live with 2 SU guys in Boston and I routed for Cuse during the Diamond Ferri football game in Boston.

The reason I posted is I read your board about possibly playing UNC and Duke in MSG instead of the dome which I thought was outrageous. Also, there will be fewer ACC games that your fans will be interested in than BE games, so you should schedule some traditional rivals.

One last point. BE made schedules based on TV. Thus, Syracuse got decent BE games every year. The ACC does not schedule that way at all, so no extra games against Duke and UNC.

I wanted to alert you guys to get in front of the issues with your AD. At BC, which never had a basketball fan base, interest has collapsed since the move to the ACC.

 

[sutomcat]

Didn't want to upset anyone as I have a lot of SU friends as I used to live with 2 SU guys in Boston and I routed for Cuse during the Diamond Ferri football game in Boston.

The reason I posted is I read your board about possibly playing UNC and Duke in MSG instead of the dome which I thought was outrageous. Also, there will be fewer ACC games that your fans will be interested in than BE games, so you should schedule some traditional rivals.

One last point. BE made schedules based on TV. Thus, Syracuse got decent BE games every year. The ACC does not schedule that way at all, so no extra games against Duke and UNC.

I wanted to alert you guys to get in front of the issues with your AD. At BC, which never had a basketball fan base, interest has collapsed since the move to the ACC.

Interesting post. Appreciate your thoughts on this.

Based on JB's comments, I don't think we are going to see any ACC conference home games in MSG (and I hope we don't ruin games against UNC and Duke by trying to play with the court at mid field either). If the administration is foolish enough to insist on doing this, I hope it is for an OOC game against someone like Kentucky, UCLA or Kansas.

To me, there is no question going to the ACC will be a downgrade in terms of fan interest. Other than Duke and UNC (and now Pitt), the ACC offers a bunch of bland, decent programs that will not excite the Syracuse fanbase. It will be interesting to see what happens with attendance. I have concerns here.

I agree with Jim, SU should strengthen its OOC schedule to help fill the void and keep fan interest high. Most of the name OOC opponents should be members of the BE.

 

[JimBoston]

One last point. We went to the AD with our concerns and were met with deaf ears. Part of the problem was no BE school would play BC initially after they left. I don't think this would happen today to Syracuse as many BE schools enjoy their games with Syracuse and times have changed. I think Pitt will have a tougher time scheduling BE schools, not out of spite, but there is no real compelling reason to play them.

BC finally added a BE basketball game, Providence.

 

[TexanMark]

A few things Cuse can do:

1. SJU every year at MSG
2. GTown home and home every year (ask for 3k guaranteed Cuse seats)
3. Get UConn in the ACC (obviously the ACC needs to do it)
4. Nova on schedule every year home and away (for recruiting)
5. Occasionally schedule a few other former BE schools (mostly guarantee games)
6. With UConn (or Duke,Pitt or UNC) a two game made for TV day in NYC, Philly or DC vs two other schools

 

[cliftonparksufan]

One last point. We went to the AD with our concerns and were met with deaf ears. Part of the problem was no BE school would play BC initially after they left. I don't think this would happen today to Syracuse as many BE schools enjoy their games with Syracuse and times have changed. I think Pitt will have a tougher time scheduling BE schools, not out of spite, but there is no real compelling reason to play them.

BC finally added a BE basketball game, Providence.

I have a hard time comparing BC and the Syracuse basketball programs. Cuse is a big fish in a very small pond. BC is a small fish in a very large pond. BC basketball draws less than half the D-1 programs.

Here are the national attendance stats from 2000-2001 when BC basketball was a very good team in the Big East. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2001.pdf
They drew 5300 fans a game which was 96th in total attendance in the entire country. That is downright embarrassing. So you can't tell me that BC was a better program back in the day and the fans embraced the programs. The stats don't back you up and no matter how you tried to massage the numbers, BC was always terrible in attracting fans to see their games. Even when they would play a local rival, their attendance wouldn't jump.

Bottom line is that Basketball is the #3 program in BC athletics behind Football and Hockey. Could the administration have done things different by scheduling better home games and catering more to attracting season ticket holders. Sounds like the answer could be an easy yes, but it still comes down to a tough sell in the Boston area and a long history of poor backing by the public and the students.

 

[Orangemen]

There are some differences for BC and SU/Pitt here.

The conference BC left is not the same one SU will be leaving. We now get home games against DePaul, USF, PC, and SH that really don't move the meter locally. We'll be exchanging those crappy home games for crappy home games against Clemson, FSU, VT, and Miami. All in all an even exchange.

BC also left for a conference where none of their traditional rivals played. SU won;t be doing that. We're going to a conference where we'll play BC and Pitt likely twice a year. We'll also get respected schools like Maryland and UVA on the schedule.

I see where things were very bad for BC, but the BC program is in a far different state than the SU program. SU fans are less sensitive to weak opponents. We;ll get 17K for Cornell, while BC probably wouldn't get 1700.

A lot of differences in our cases, and our arrival, along with Pitt, will certainly help things from BC's perspective.

 

[Cusefan95]

I think part of the problem was BC left the Big East at just about its high water mark for hoops, and has steadily declined from there. Also think that ESPN is going to push the ACC into reformatting the scheduling to get more compelling TV match-ups as well - ACC might not like it, but don't think it'll matter

 

[Upstate]

I think I found your problem. BC BBall fans are awful, like you said. Syracuse fans aren't awful, therefore we will always have butts in seats.

 

[jordoo]

I would think Pitt and SU to the ACC will help BC in both Fball and Bball as far as fan interest goes.

 

[armory]

With the ACC's ESPN contract, home games are likely to be at much better time slots instead of the ludicrous noon saturday/sunday games we started to see more and more of. I've had ssn tix and been going to the games for over 25 years, and while it isn't the same thing as tailgating for football, there is a lot to be said about the pre/post-game rituals in this city for basketball too. Our home schedule got progressively worse as the Big East added more and more B-league teams... and the experience of attending games followed suit.

Just as the huge football fans have to love what the move will do for the schedule, the basketball schedule should also get another bump towards prime time... which makes for a much better game experience.

 

[netman99]

First, I'm not attacking your move to the ACC as it makes financial sense as it did when BC moved to the ACC, but I wanted to share my experience as a BC basketball season ticket holder.

I shared BC bball season tickets with another fan for almost 20 years. We bought the tickets because we were huge Big East basketball fans and it was easy to buy Big East tourney tickets through BC. We had great seats and we were very content. We never had a problem finding friends or relatives to join us for the UConn, Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Providence, and St. john's games. (Pitt being good at basketball is very recent as they weren't very good when they first joined the BE.). When the BE added VT, Miami, and Rutgers, those games became the hard conference games to get friends and family interested in attending. My wife saw more of these teams than any other BE school.

BC does not have strong basketball fan support, but the fans came out for the big BE games.

When BC went to the ACC, the first year everyone was excited to see Duke and UNC, until we realized they wouldn't be coming very often. You get Duke and UNC at home a little over 1x per year. Year 1, only Duke showed up. Asking friends to go to games was almost impossible as there was no interest in seeing most of the ACC schools. They all said, call me when either Duke or UNC are coming.

We dropped our season tickets after the first year in the ACC. Looking at BC's attendance, I would we weren't alone. The move to the ACC was not for basketball.

Look at this year's home schedule: UNH, Penn St, BU, Stony Brook, Bryant, Sacred Heart, Harvard, URI, Clemson, VT, Wake Forrest, Miami, NC St, Florida St, Duke, and Georgia Tech. Would you buy a season ticket to that? Would you go to Greensboro over NYC for the conference tourney? Neither would I.

Here are some recommendations that you need to force upon your AD: You can not move a Duke or UNC game to MSG period. Clemson, VT, Miami, move them wherever you what. Schedule traditional rivals like Villanova, Georgetown, UConn, St. John's every year. Even try for home and homes in a given year. It will keep up fan interest and increase your schedule strength. Push for an ACC tourney in the Northeast every 4 years. If the BE doesn't fold, which it probably won't, it won't be in MSG, but it could be in Brooklyn, or how about Syracuse?

Good luck as I think Syracuse basketball will do well in the ACC. I'm not so sure about Pitt as they have lived off NY talent and they won't be playing much in NYC in the future.

Thanks for the post.

How do you feel the move to the ACC affected/changed your recruiting in basketball? It seems like getting eastern kids to play in the ACC may be harder than to play in the big East. I still think, the Big East will be a powerfull conf wo Pitt and SU. For recruits from the East that want to play in the ACC, I would think they would still go south. Philly is a strong area for us and I don't see this move helping that area at all.

 

[Bayside44]

A few things Cuse can do:

1. SJU every year at MSG
2. GTown home and home every year (ask for 3k guaranteed Cuse seats)
3. Get UConn in the ACC (obviously the ACC needs to do it)
4. Nova on schedule every year home and away (for recruiting)
5. Occasionally schedule a few other former BE schools (mostly guarantee games)
6. With UConn (or Duke,Pitt or UNC) a two game made for TV day in NYC, Philly or DC vs two other schools

Georgetown gave SU 240 seats last year.

Scheduling 4 Big East games is lunacy...knowing the way they think I would bet you'd average 1.5 tops over a five year period.We'll see the early season MSG stuff, maybe a one off like Gross said at MSG, and the usual tour of NYS and random mid-major types.

 

[JimBoston]

Like many of you state, there is no comparison between BC basketball and Syracuse basketball. BC does not have the fan base. I do not have the attendance statistics, but there was a change with the ACC games as most ACC teams bring no fans. Attendance at BC was so up and down over the years, you can't cherry pick a year or two and draw conclusions. In my opinion, ACC basketball has really fallen off over the past few years, I think due to coaching. If you are a college basketball fan, you can probably name 7 current BE coaches. It is hard to get past 2 or 3 in the current ACC.

As for recruiting, in the 90s, BC started to make inroads into local recruiting, but it blew up after some local players were belatedly refused admission and eventually Jim O'Brien left for Ohio State. No top local recruits go to BC anymore, but that was a self inflicted wound unrelated to the ACC. That said, BC used to recruit the NYC area fairly well, but not since the move to the ACC as they never play in NY anymore and face fact, BC basketball is less popular than hockey. I don't think Syracuse will run into the same problems as I think the school understands the importance of maintaining NYC ties.

 

[jimsonjunction]

I'm confident that our attendance will be fine, but I agree with your general point... that our conference schedule went from being incredibly awesome to good. My only qualm with the move is that I'll miss playing Nova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Louisville, UConn (potentially), St. Johns, West Virginia and Marquette. I simply won't be as excited for the ACC games... maybe over time that will change.

Another good point is the coaching being much worse in the ACC. Part of the greatness of the BE was the match-ups between the coaches themselves. The best group of coaches in the country all going at it. Knowing the individual styles. Players come and go but the coach is what defines the program.

 

[ACCBballFan]

I think part of the problem was BC left the Big East at just about its high water mark for hoops, and has steadily declined from there. Also think that ESPN is going to push the ACC into reformatting the scheduling to get more compelling TV match-ups as well - ACC might not like it, but don't think it'll matter

With respect to first poster, probably more of a problem for Pittsburgh who also has a lot of pro competition as BC does with Cletics, Patriots, and Bruins.

With respect to football scheduling that I do not follow closely, seems to me the easiest thing to do if Cuse and Pitt become available sooner than 27 months and number of teams is 14 is to just add Syracuse to BC's division and Pitt with the Virginia teams.

The current ACC football divisions are not geographic. Both new adds were 8-5 last year and have them play each other cross-divisionally at least that first year.

Atlantic: BC, Maryland, NC State, Wake, Clemson, FSU (and Cuse)

Coastal: VA Tech, UVA, UNC, Duke, GA Tech, Miami (and Pitt)

In Bball, I fully agree with what you are saying. Since TV drives the Bball schedule, how about this? Have each ACC team play the other 13 once plus 3 Home and Home with just one 14 team coinference not split by division, but by skill level.

That would mean UNC-Syracuse-Duke-Pitt all play one another twice to satisfy ESPN in a two year rotation cycleto allow one home games with everybody else every other year .

Do the same thing at bottom for the 4 worst teams that only their fans would ever want to watch play twice: BC-GA T- Wake -MD this year but not bottom 4 for long. Top 4 teams would still play them once, alternating home and away every other year.

For the middle 6, give them each a primary partner and alternate which two of the other 4 they play odd years, and the other two the even years:

FSU and Miami home and home every year plus alternate for example VA T and NC State twice in odd years and UVA and Clemson twice in even years

VA Tech and UVA home and home every year plus alternate FSU and NC State twice in odd years and Miami and Clemson twice in even years

Clemson and NC St home and home every year and alternate Miami and UVA twice in odd years and FSU and NC State twice in even years.

It's possible that one of these middle 6 might finish higher than one of the top 4 and also possible one of the bottom 4 may finish higher than one of the middle 6.

My preference would be to not re-seed top 4 and bottom 4 until after second year when everybody who played once only on road would play the same foe at home and vice versa.

 

[SaintTristan]

A few things Cuse can do:

1. SJU every year at MSG
2. GTown home and home every year (ask for 3k guaranteed Cuse seats)
3. Get UConn in the ACC (obviously the ACC needs to do it)
4. Nova on schedule every year home and away (for recruiting)
5. Occasionally schedule a few other former BE schools (mostly guarantee games)



Why do you want uconn in the ACC? That's a bad idea.

 

[Cusey]

I think part of the problem was BC left the Big East at just about its high water mark for hoops, and has steadily declined from there. Also think that ESPN is going to push the ACC into reformatting the scheduling to get more compelling TV match-ups as well - ACC might not like it, but don't think it'll matter

I think you hit on a key when you say that ESPN [and even CBS on weekends] will push for even more compelling TV match-ups. For dollars and cents reasons, the TV factor will continue to be a primary driver when it comes to scheduling.

 

[Col. Bleep]

First, I'm not attacking your move to the ACC as it makes financial sense as it did when BC moved to the ACC, but I wanted to share my experience as a BC basketball season ticket holder.

I shared BC bball season tickets with another fan for almost 20 years. We bought the tickets because we were huge Big East basketball fans and it was easy to buy Big East tourney tickets through BC. We had great seats and we were very content. We never had a problem finding friends or relatives to join us for the UConn, Syracuse, Villanova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Providence, and St. john's games. (Pitt being good at basketball is very recent as they weren't very good when they first joined the BE.). When the BE added VT, Miami, and Rutgers, those games became the hard conference games to get friends and family interested in attending. My wife saw more of these teams than any other BE school.

BC does not have strong basketball fan support, but the fans came out for the big BE games.

When BC went to the ACC, the first year everyone was excited to see Duke and UNC, until we realized they wouldn't be coming very often. You get Duke and UNC at home a little over 1x per year. Year 1, only Duke showed up. Asking friends to go to games was almost impossible as there was no interest in seeing most of the ACC schools. They all said, call me when either Duke or UNC are coming.

We dropped our season tickets after the first year in the ACC. Looking at BC's attendance, I would we weren't alone. The move to the ACC was not for basketball.

Look at this year's home schedule: UNH, Penn St, BU, Stony Brook, Bryant, Sacred Heart, Harvard, URI, Clemson, VT, Wake Forrest, Miami, NC St, Florida St, Duke, and Georgia Tech. Would you buy a season ticket to that? Would you go to Greensboro over NYC for the conference tourney? Neither would I.

Here are some recommendations that you need to force upon your AD: You can not move a Duke or UNC game to MSG period. Clemson, VT, Miami, move them wherever you what. Schedule traditional rivals like Villanova, Georgetown, UConn, St. John's every year. Even try for home and homes in a given year. It will keep up fan interest and increase your schedule strength. Push for an ACC tourney in the Northeast every 4 years. If the BE doesn't fold, which it probably won't, it won't be in MSG, but it could be in Brooklyn, or how about Syracuse?

Good luck as I think Syracuse basketball will do well in the ACC. I'm not so sure about Pitt as they have lived off NY talent and they won't be playing much in NYC in the future.

The insight is appreciated.
From purely a basketball perspective, there is no particular interest in ACC games besides Duke & UNC.

Personally, I care only about maintaining traditional rivalries.
That means I want us to get at G-town every year.
SJU & UConn, too, if possible.
To that end, I'd like to see an annual 4-game TRADITION "TOURNAMENT" at MSG.
Syracuse & Pitt come in.
Each of them plays a game against G-town and UConn (although I'd imagine St. John's would want in).

That would be like a mini-BE tournament.
It should fill the Garden.
And it would make NYC-area Orange alumni (like me) very happy.

 

[domestu]

Syracuse clearly has a much larger basketball fan base than BC but a lot of people are going overboard with their projections about how this move to the ACC will play out. I believe we need to make this conference change because it will put our football program on a much more solid footing but it definitely has some negative aspects for Cuse hoops.

I'm looking forward to seeing Duke and North Carolina play in the Dome but as JimBoston points out they won't be appearing here every season. Anyone who thinks there is not going to be some dropoff in local fan interest for our future home ACC schedules is kidding themselves. People can cite DePaul or South Florida as examples of teams they won't miss but SU is also going to be losing a lot of great BE opponents like UConn, Georgetown, Villanova, Louisville and Notre Dame that Cuse hoops fans look forward to. I expect there will be less interest overall among many Orange fans for our ACC schedules during our initial years in the conference. This won't occur with any of us hardcore hoops junkies but the current number of quality ACC teams just isn't going to satisfy some longtime Big East fans to the same degree.

As far as the continuation of games against some of our biggest conference rivals, I expect Syracuse will play some BE teams in the future but it is going to occur far less than many people are thinking right now. SU will continue appearing in early season tournaments at Madison Square Garden but there is no way we are going to be scheduling three or four games against BE schools. College hoops is big business and Syracuse is not going to give up large money-making games at the Dome to face former league foes somewhere else. Take away those early season tournaments and ask yourself when was the last time SU's non-league schedule included three or four games against teams from major conferences.

Go Orange!

 

[ACCBballFan]

The insight is appreciated.
From purely a basketball perspective, there is no particular interest in ACC games besides Duke & UNC.

Personally, I care only about maintaining traditional rivalries.
That means I want us to get at G-town every year.
SJU & UConn, too, if possible.
To that end, I'd like to see an annual 4-game TRADITION "TOURNAMENT" at MSG.
Syracuse & Pitt come in.
Each of them plays a game against G-town and UConn (although I'd imagine St. John's would want in).

That would be like a mini-BE tournament.
It should fill the Garden.
And it would make NYC-area Orange alumni (like me) very happy.

That would be intersting. It might not be labelled as a "tournament" since there are limits on how many tournaments per season like Maui, P-NIT etc, but could defintely do a mini round robin type of thing.

A lot depends on whether West VA, UL and to a smaller extent TCU stay put and BE stabilizes. These 3 are more of a threat than Cincy, UCONN, Rutgers and USF to bolt. If they exit to SEC/B12, that might cause the Bball only schools to form their own coalition, whch actually might increase their willingness to schedule Cuse and Pitt OOC.

I for one, as I am sure all Cuse and Pitts fans are, am hoping that the BE and B12 both remain viable entities, but its a delicate balancing act for each at moment with Missouri also possibly in play and Texas always looking to bully the others. I expect the ACC, B1G and P12 to stand pat to wait and see how it all shakes out.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...d-dave-hart-says-sec-continue-expand-13-teams

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7037181/source-big-12-ads-discuss-stability-expansion

 

[Stern]

Right now we have South Florida, Depaul, Cincy, Seton Hall, Marquette...not exactly games I see people getting all giddy about.

Give me NC State, Virginia, Maryland, VT, Clemson ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!! They might not be any better talent wise, but at least it will be somewhat more interesting. Some of those schools have a basketball history at least.

 

[pfister1]

Right now we have South Florida, Depaul, Cincy, Seton Hall, Marquette...not exactly games I see people getting all giddy about.

Give me NC State, Virginia, Maryland, VT, Clemson ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!! They might not be any better talent wise, but at least it will be somewhat more interesting. Some of those schools have a basketball history at least.

Really??? Which of the two groups of schools has played in more National Championship games?

That's right the Big East group.

Cincy has played in 3 winning 2
Marquette has played in 2 winning 1
Seton Hall has played in 1.
DePaul zero
South Florida zero

ACC Group

NC State has played in two winning both
Maryland has played in and won one.
Clemson zero
Virginia zero
Virginia Tech zero