My game thoughts

[JackBauer44]

This post has a chance to be disjointed. I watched the first half on Saturday before heading to a golf outing. I kept up with the score on my phone but am just now watching the third quarter and typing thought as I watch. I'm not going to bother watching the 4th quarter after seeing the box score, but here are some thoughts I have after combining the first half and third quarter.

1. The best way(s) to negate a poor offensive line - quick hitters all around the field, three step drops, misdirection in the running game, and creative formations. I can only imagine how many people have posted about our running game and running dives for two yard gains. This has to change. We've seen this over the past couple of years and it's one of my biggest concerns about our offense. We need to get more creative on offense. UNC blitzed heavy on running downs and really took advantage of having lots of bodies in the box. I hope our push gets where it needs to be once Davis gets back, but we need to see some creativity from Sterling. I mentioned this on Saturday, but we need Carlos to get his snaps in order. Too many shotguns just lofted softly back to Tommy, and by the time he got the snap and situated, the timing routes were off and receivers were smothered in coverage. Tommy had no choice but to be late with the ball. Some of the biggest jumps you can have come from week 1 to week 2. We need to show up against Pitt. It's unacceptable for our offense, labeled OITNF, to have zero touchdowns.
2. Our defense is going to be really good. They may take some lumps, but this unit and this 3-3-5 scheme is going to allow our athletes on defense to do what they do best. For the first three quarters we were good in space and had a great push on the DLine.
3. If the Johnson(s) continue to show they can't get the job done on our offense, we need to see what our young wideouts can do. More Queely, Jackson, Hendrix, Alford, Pena, and Barron.

I have some more thoughts, but I want to see another game before saying them. I'm not giving up on the season yet, and I know there are a lot of things stacked against us, but we need a positive showing against Pitt. It would go a long way for all parties involved; the team, the fans, and recruits in the 2021/2022 class.

 

[Nick44]

My concern is Dino’s stubbornness from an offensive standpoint. I’m a fan of Dino but he needs to stop trying to establish the run on 1st and 2nd down by running a 170 lb running back up the middle behind a subpar OL. He needs to start masking the weaknesses of this offense and emphasizing the strengths EVEN if it means going away from your preferred offensive philosophy. You have two excellent tight ends...USE THEM! Also, the role that Ervin Phillips had as a safety valve for Eric Dungey when he needed 3-5 yards on a short pass has been gone since they graduated. Pick a wide receiver with the best hands and reinstate that package into the gameplan. It not only bailed Dungey out...it WORKED! Also, I hesitate to bring this up because of the propensity for it to be overused but was there even one decent running back screen yesterday? Why not? Lastly, if Jordan is unable to get yardage as a RB, why not try any WR rushes and line him up out wide?

 

[JackBauer44]

My concern is Dino’s stubbornness from an offensive standpoint. I’m a fan of Dino but he needs to stop trying to establish the run on 1st and 2nd down by running a 170 lb running back up the middle behind a subpar OL. He needs to start masking the weaknesses of this offense and emphasizing the strengths EVEN if it means going away from your preferred offensive philosophy. You have two excellent tight ends...USE THEM! Also, the role that Ervin Phillips had as a safety valve for Eric Dungey when he needed 3-5 yards on a short pass has been gone since they graduated. Pick a wide receiver with the best hands and reinstate that package into the gameplan. It not only bailed Dungey out...it WORKED! Lastly, I hesitate to bring this up because of the propensity for it to be overused but was there even one decent running back screen yesterday? Why not?

You're not wrong. The screen game is definitely something to help when the defense continues to bring pressure. Not only the RB screen game, but the WR screen game. We have some shifty WRs. I'd love to see us go empty and utilize the numbers more. We definitely can use the middle of the field more. I think Benson could do this really well. It's just so hard to get the TEs going when they're being used for max protection. I remember watching Bowling Green in an upset of Tennessee before Dino came to Syracuse. There was a lot of dives and off tackles. It does well for setting up play action, but when a defense knows their DLine can contain the run, the LBs don't have to bite on that, and it becomes much easier. Back in my DCoordinator days, I had a defensive line whose main strength was gap protection. It made life for our LB and secondary so much easier and allowed us to be aggressive and comfortable. I fear that our offense is allowing opposing defenses to get comfortable and confident too easily, and it really needs to change.

I love Dino. I think he's done a great job and I really do think he's brought a lot of talent to Syracuse that we haven't had in a long time. He is not immune to criticism though and I hope changes continue to evolve, as I really want to see him here for a long time.

 

[ottodaorange]

I'm hesitant to say anything because, due to my living circumstances, I don't receive ACCN. I was forced to listen to Matt Parks on radio. I did watch the condensed game, but that doesn't help much. My sense is that there are several things that are good, mostly defense, and many things that must be corrected, mostly offense.

1. When they take away the run on early downs, we need to get Jordan in space, where he is the most dangerous. Screen passes, WR, reverses, counters, etc.
2. Agree with the 3 step and pass, and on first down also.
3. Any other ways to compensate for what appears to be another year of inadequate OL
4. Correct dropped passes, especially the one in the end zone! If that means changing the receivers, so be it.
5. When was the last time we threw the come back pass that McNabb was so good at?
6. DeVito is not the problem.

I think that Dino will figure it out and we will improve. After all, this is a meaningless season. So maybe we should kick back and be grateful for seeing any football at all and look forward to next season

 

[SoBristol]

It is a challenging season due to Covid and schedule changes, losing some of the out of conference winnable games. But not meaningless for DeVito’s 4th year, for the three senior starters in the DL, or Cisco and Thrill Williams who may not be back if the NFL calls. Not meaningless to either of our new coordinators, who don’t want a 3 or 4 win season. I don’t see how it is meaningless to Taj Harris, or any of the new CBs and LBs who have a chance to play.
If we won that game, or if we beat Pitt on Saturday, no one will think that is meaningless.

As with any season, it is a measure of our program.

 

[sufandu]

You're not wrong. The screen game is definitely something to help when the defense continues to bring pressure. Not only the RB screen game, but the WR screen game. We have some shifty WRs. I'd love to see us go empty and utilize the numbers more. We definitely can use the middle of the field more. I think Benson could do this really well. It's just so hard to get the TEs going when they're being used for max protection. I remember watching Bowling Green in an upset of Tennessee before Dino came to Syracuse. There was a lot of dives and off tackles. It does well for setting up play action, but when a defense knows their DLine can contain the run, the LBs don't have to bite on that, and it becomes much easier. Back in my DCoordinator days, I had a defensive line whose main strength was gap protection. It made life for our LB and secondary so much easier and allowed us to be aggressive and comfortable. I fear that our offense is allowing opposing defenses to get comfortable and confident too easily, and it really needs to change.

I love Dino. I think he's done a great job and I really do think he's brought a lot of talent to Syracuse that we haven't had in a long time. He is not immune to criticism though and I hope changes continue to evolve, as I really want to see him here for a long time.

I agree with everything you're saying and love to hear the perspective of the coaches on here. Just one nitpick. Bowling Green lost that Tennessee game 59-30. I think they were leading for a while and a lot of UT fans here in Knoxville were unahppy with how Bowling Green was movimg the ball and scoring, but eventually Tennessee's talent just took over.

 

[AngryOtto]

If it’s a meaningless season then we need to give other qbs a chance and reps. It will allow the coaches to determine if the others have potential in games situations to improve the offense. If TD continues to struggle other need reps.

 

[JackBauer44]

I agree with everything you're saying and love to hear the perspective of the coaches on here. Just one nitpick. Bowling Green lost that Tennessee game 59-30. I think they were leading for a while and a lot of UT fans here in Knoxville were unahppy with how Bowling Green was movimg the ball and scoring, but eventually Tennessee's talent just took over.

touche. Was relying on memory. Whoops.

 

[SWC75]

This post has a chance to be disjointed. I watched the first half on Saturday before heading to a golf outing. I kept up with the score on my phone but am just now watching the third quarter and typing thought as I watch. I'm not going to bother watching the 4th quarter after seeing the box score, but here are some thoughts I have after combining the first half and third quarter.

1. The best way(s) to negate a poor offensive line - quick hitters all around the field, three step drops, misdirection in the running game, and creative formations. I can only imagine how many people have posted about our running game and running dives for two yard gains. This has to change. We've seen this over the past couple of years and it's one of my biggest concerns about our offense. We need to get more creative on offense. UNC blitzed heavy on running downs and really took advantage of having lots of bodies in the box. I hope our push gets where it needs to be once Davis gets back, but we need to see some creativity from Sterling. I mentioned this on Saturday, but we need Carlos to get his snaps in order. Too many shotguns just lofted softly back to Tommy, and by the time he got the snap and situated, the timing routes were off and receivers were smothered in coverage. Tommy had no choice but to be late with the ball. Some of the biggest jumps you can have come from week 1 to week 2. We need to show up against Pitt. It's unacceptable for our offense, labeled OITNF, to have zero touchdowns.
2. Our defense is going to be really good. They may take some lumps, but this unit and this 3-3-5 scheme is going to allow our athletes on defense to do what they do best. For the first three quarters we were good in space and had a great push on the DLine.
3. If the Johnson(s) continue to show they can't get the job done on our offense, we need to see what our young wideouts can do. More Queely, Jackson, Hendrix, Alford, Pena, and Barron.

I have some more thoughts, but I want to see another game before saying them. I'm not giving up on the season yet, and I know there are a lot of things stacked against us, but we need a positive showing against Pitt. It would go a long way for all parties involved; the team, the fans, and recruits in the 2021/2022 class.

You can't have misdirection in the running game with only one running back. With Dungey we had two running backs: he could hand off, keep it or pass it. DeVito can occasionally run the QB draw or scramble for a first down but it's not the same thing. The 216 pound Pierre would make an excellent running fullback who runs between the tackles for the tough yards while Jordan would make a great halfback, running wide or catching passes to get in space. That still gives us wide-outs for the sideline stuff and a tight end if we ever throw to him. If we are going to have such a limited offense, why not revert to two running backs so the defense won't know which one will get the ball on a running play?

 

[CuseOnly]

You can't have misdirection in the running game with only one running back. With Dungey we had two running backs: he could hand off, keep it or pass it. DeVito can occasionally run the QB draw or scramble for a first down but it's not the same thing. The 216 pound Pierre would make an excellent running fullback who runs between the tackles for the tough yards while Jordan would make a great halfback, running wide or catching passes to get in space. That still gives us wide-outs for the sideline stuff and a tight end if we ever throw to him. If we are going to have such a limited offense, why not revert to two running backs so the defense won't know which one will get the ball on a running play?

They wont know which running back will get the ball but an extra RB in the backfield allows the defense to stack another LB or safety in the box.

That further condenses our formation which is exactly the opposite of what Babers offense is supposed to do which is spread you out.

2RB offensive formations usually are power running formations, we don't have the OL for that like Pitt and BC do.

 

[JackBauer44]

You can't have misdirection in the running game with only one running back. With Dungey we had two running backs: he could hand off, keep it or pass it. DeVito can occasionally run the QB draw or scramble for a first down but it's not the same thing. The 216 pound Pierre would make an excellent running fullback who runs between the tackles for the tough yards while Jordan would make a great halfback, running wide or catching passes to get in space. That still gives us wide-outs for the sideline stuff and a tight end if we ever throw to him. If we are going to have such a limited offense, why not revert to two running backs so the defense won't know which one will get the ball on a running play?

I’ll try and draw up some stuff later, but it is possible to have misdirection with single back formation. We used to utilize it in our spread offense. You can also use misdirection with receivers that are in motion, which is my favorite. I almost think Jordan in the slot and Pierre in the backfield could be a great usage of this. Now I understand that this is a brand new offensive scheme but to each their own.

 

[shu 49]

They wont know which running back will get the ball but an extra RB in the backfield allows the defense to stack another LB or safety in the box.

That further condenses our formation which is exactly the opposite of what Babers offense is supposed to do which is spread you out.

2RB offensive formations usually are power running formations, we don't have the OL for that like Pitt and BC do.

On first down they were stacking 7 and blitzing an 8th. We aren’t really a super smart offense. No swing passes to rb or off tackle runs. Didn’t see any snap and throw type quick offense. Kinda reminds me of meathead football without the meat.

 

[Trueblue25]

If it’s a meaningless season then we need to give other qbs a chance and reps. It will allow the coaches to determine if the others have potential in games situations to improve the offense. If TD continues to struggle other need reps.

We don’t get meaningless seasons when we’re grinding to build recruiting momentum and keep talent from transferring out.

Any football matters to Cuse, I’m not sure why some board contributors believe we have the privilege of a throw away season. We need to show recruits we’re building something with every snap.

Think season ticket sales remain steady after a 3-8 2020? Doubt it.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

What happened to the screen game?
What is the point to throwing deep to Harris?
Where were Benson and Hackett?
Has Devito been Andrew Robinsoned?
In what world did we think Carlos Vetterollo is a starting ACC center?

 

[sufandu]

You can't have misdirection in the running game with only one running back. With Dungey we had two running backs: he could hand off, keep it or pass it. DeVito can occasionally run the QB draw or scramble for a first down but it's not the same thing. The 216 pound Pierre would make an excellent running fullback who runs between the tackles for the tough yards while Jordan would make a great halfback, running wide or catching passes to get in space. That still gives us wide-outs for the sideline stuff and a tight end if we ever throw to him. If we are going to have such a limited offense, why not revert to two running backs so the defense won't know which one will get the ball on a running play?

Sure you can. The misdirection comes from the flow of the other players.

 

[cuse10]

What happened to the screen game?
What is the point to throwing deep to Harris?
Where were Benson and Hackett?
Has Devito been Andrew Robinsoned?
In what world did we think Carlos Vetterollo is a starting ACC center?

1. They abandoned it altogether. Don't know why. Small, incremental gains > 2/3rd and longs.
2. He's the #1 so I guess by default he's the long ball threat instead of being better used out of the slot and intermediate routes.
3. Aiding in pass protection.
4. No. Devito hasn't been moved to tight end yet.
5. When you miss on your top and mid priority targets, you work with what you have. Even though they lost the Notre Dame game in 2018, Devito looked better because Servais was a FBS caliber center.

 

[Chip]

What happened to the screen game?
What is the point to throwing deep to Harris?
Where were Benson and Hackett?
Has Devito been Andrew Robinsoned?
In what world did we think Carlos Vetterollo is a starting ACC center?

They might need more time to work on the screen game, a lot of pieces have to work together. And for RB screens, it's easier against a more aggressive front. UNC played pretty vanilla on D because they could.

Throwing deep to Harris is still fine, but the sideline throws might need to be saved for someone who the wind doesn't take out of bounds.

Benson and Hackett were stuck in max pass protect, didn't really do us much good. Need to get more creative.

DeVito's mental clock is a concern due to PTSD, but by senior year ARob couldn't even throw an out pass. DeVito still has the arm, we just need to hit the deep ones.

Vettorello was fine when moved to center last year and held up in the final 3 games. He's still young. Our OL is one veteran tackle, two true sophomores. a guard getting his first playing time, and a fullback. It's going to be a long season, but will look much different/better next year (I know no one wants to hear that, but it's true).

 

[SWC75]

They wont know which running back will get the ball but an extra RB in the backfield allows the defense to stack another LB or safety in the box.

That further condenses our formation which is exactly the opposite of what Babers offense is supposed to do which is spread you out.

2RB offensive formations usually are power running formations, we don't have the OL for that like Pitt and BC do.

That depends entirely on the personnel. I've always thought that the perfect line-up was the Baltimore Colts when they won two NFL titles in 1958-59. Johnny Unitas at QB, Alan Ameche as a line-plunging FB and a great blocker, Lenny Moore as a versatile and explosive halfback, Ray Berry and Jimmy Orr as outstanding wide-outs and a good tight end, JIm Mutscheller, (later they upgraded to John Mackey). Yes, we don't have those guys but we're playing at the college level and DeVito, Pierre, Jordan, Harris, Queeley, (et al), and Hackett/Benson could be a facsimilie for us.


There were a lot of Lenny Moore type players in those days, although he might have been the best of them. Bobby Mitchell, Frank Gifford, Timmy Brown, Charley Taylor, Terry Metcalf, Gayle Sayers, Tommy Mason, Hugh McElhenny, Jon Arnett, Paul Lowe, Clem Daniels, our own Floyd Little, Mike Garrett, Billy Cannon, Mercury Morris, Paul Robinson. Look up their highlights. Those guys weren't lined up in 'power runnign formations'. Their abilities spread the field.

We weren't exactly spreading it with what we were doing on Saturday. if our offense is going to be that vanilla, with no passes to the slots or the tight ends, we might as well have two running backs.

 

[cuse10]

Also, re: the spread. It's an offense that has been figured out across college football. It's become easier and easier to defend. If you are running a spread in 2020, you need to have the athletes available to make it hum.

 

[SWC75]

Also, re: the spread. It's an offense that has been figured out across college football. It's become easier and easier to defend. If you are running a spread in 2020, you need to have the athletes available to make it hum.

Football is cyclical. the option and the nose tackle appear, disappear, re-appear, etc. Other offensive concepts aren't 'old fashioned' so much as they aren't what defenses are geared to stop right now. Remember the Wildcat? That was single wing football form the 1940's. If we went to two running backs, (one of whom can also go out for passes), defenses wouldn't know what to do with it.

One of the reason we did so well in 2018 is that we had two running backs: Neal or Strickland and Eric Dungey, who was dynamite with the RPO plays. When DeVito replaced him, he was supposed to be a superior passer but a stay-in-the-pocket guy who depend on the running back to supply the running game. That's hard to do when you don't have a dominant line and the defense knows who to tackle on every running play.

 

[baggerbob]

I’ll try and draw up some stuff later, but it is possible to have misdirection with single back formation. We used to utilize it in our spread offense. You can also use misdirection with receivers that are in motion, which is my favorite. I almost think Jordan in the slot and Pierre in the backfield could be a great usage of this. Now I understand that this is a brand new offensive scheme but to each their own.

Jordan should be in the slot like Atwell is for Louisville. That way you can get him in space also as an outlet for Tommy to dump the ball off to.

 

[SWC75]

Jordan should be in the slot like Atwell is for Louisville. That way you can get him in space also as an outlet for Tommy to dump the ball off to.

The same thing can be done with swing passes to the halfback. You don't have to eliminate him as a running back to do it.

 

[OrangeTown]

This post has a chance to be disjointed. I watched the first half on Saturday before heading to a golf outing. I kept up with the score on my phone but am just now watching the third quarter and typing thought as I watch. I'm not going to bother watching the 4th quarter after seeing the box score, but here are some thoughts I have after combining the first half

I’ve seen your golf game. You should stick to watching football.

 

[SUalldway]

My concern is Dino’s stubbornness from an offensive standpoint. I’m a fan of Dino but he needs to stop trying to establish the run on 1st and 2nd down by running a 170 lb running back up the middle behind a subpar OL. He needs to start masking the weaknesses of this offense and emphasizing the strengths EVEN if it means going away from your preferred offensive philosophy. You have two excellent tight ends...USE THEM! Also, the role that Ervin Phillips had as a safety valve for Eric Dungey when he needed 3-5 yards on a short pass has been gone since they graduated. Pick a wide receiver with the best hands and reinstate that package into the gameplan. It not only bailed Dungey out...it WORKED! Also, I hesitate to bring this up because of the propensity for it to be overused but was there even one decent running back screen yesterday? Why not? Lastly, if Jordan is unable to get yardage as a RB, why not try any WR rushes and line him up out wide?

Need a multiple Like button for this post!

 

[Steelerswan]

This post has a chance to be disjointed. I watched the first half on Saturday before heading to a golf outing. I kept up with the score on my phone but am just now watching the third quarter and typing thought as I watch. I'm not going to bother watching the 4th quarter after seeing the box score, but here are some thoughts I have after combining the first half and third quarter.

1. The best way(s) to negate a poor offensive line - quick hitters all around the field, three step drops, misdirection in the running game, and creative formations. I can only imagine how many people have posted about our running game and running dives for two yard gains. This has to change. We've seen this over the past couple of years and it's one of my biggest concerns about our offense. We need to get more creative on offense. UNC blitzed heavy on running downs and really took advantage of having lots of bodies in the box. I hope our push gets where it needs to be once Davis gets back, but we need to see some creativity from Sterling. I mentioned this on Saturday, but we need Carlos to get his snaps in order. Too many shotguns just lofted softly back to Tommy, and by the time he got the snap and situated, the timing routes were off and receivers were smothered in coverage. Tommy had no choice but to be late with the ball. Some of the biggest jumps you can have come from week 1 to week 2. We need to show up against Pitt. It's unacceptable for our offense, labeled OITNF, to have zero touchdowns.
2. Our defense is going to be really good. They may take some lumps, but this unit and this 3-3-5 scheme is going to allow our athletes on defense to do what they do best. For the first three quarters we were good in space and had a great push on the DLine.
3. If the Johnson(s) continue to show they can't get the job done on our offense, we need to see what our young wideouts can do. More Queely, Jackson, Hendrix, Alford, Pena, and Barron.

I have some more thoughts, but I want to see another game before saying them. I'm not giving up on the season yet, and I know there are a lot of things stacked against us, but we need a positive showing against Pitt. It would go a long way for all parties involved; the team, the fans, and recruits in the 2021/2022 class.

Good post but I saw something last night in the pro game that might exhibit what we have here. Relatively speaking, the giants have a talented, young qb and a poor oline, and a young talented rb. Now, the Steelers look like one of the top 5 teams in the NFL and their D is just smothering and talented. What we saw last night was an oline that got ran over, but a qb that hung in there in the face of that dynamic Steelers pressure and made plays. DID he make mistakes? Yes, but the moxy this continues to show that elevates all around him is EXACTLY what this offense lacks.