My Main Concern

[We Are Syracuse]

Is by far the same problem we had last year. I missed the game against Le Moyne because I had class but I am mainly concerned with the fact that Lydon was playing center a lot of the game and if that is something we are going to do a lot this season. Reason being, if Tyler is the center for a lot of minutes, I feel like Syracuse is back at where we were last year when it comes to rebounding and size. I know TL has made strong improvements on his strength but I just do not see him ever being able to anchor the zone like we've had with Rak and Melo. Which then leads to PC and what I have seen from him so far. Expected more and lets just hope he is knocking off the rust because I think he is VITAL for this teams success going forward.

 

[ar inj]

I see the glass half full. There are two centers to eat up some of the center minutes and when JB goes w/ the Lydon, Roberson, White, Battle and FH/JG lineup it will be the other team that has matchup problems.

 

[OrangeZeus]

I feel like Lydon will only play center when Coleman and Chukwu are both in foul trouble, both need a breather, or at the end of games in a small lineup featuring the PG with the hot hand, Battle, White, Roberson, and Lydon. That will be our five best players that we want on the court unless Coleman or Chukwu surprise us. Granted, we don't want to run with that five for too long since we saw how it worked last year. We managed, but it wasn't ideal having Lydon in the middle. I think we were best last year with Coleman on the court for short stretches since we could play Lydon at his natural position.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Maybe TT can give us some serviceable minutes there. I have a feeling Chukwu is more of a liability right now all around. Boeheim won't be playing him many more minutes moving forward, imo.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

My main concern is whether to buy a L or XL Championship tee

 

[Digger]

Wow. I can't disagree with this any more.

Yes. Lydon is going to play a lot of minutes at C this year. But thankfully, not because he has to, but because Boeheim knows playing that way (for stretches) is to our incredible benefit.

The 2016-17 Tyler Lydon won't be playing C because he "has to," it will be because he is an athletic and strong 6'9 225 rim protector. He can more than hold his own there defensively for ~10-15 minutes a game. And when he's at C on defense...good god. There are a very few teams in the country that can handle us offensively.

DC and PC will play roles this year, but Lydon being an effective anchor in the zone is an enormous positive. Its just another weapon for Boeheim to unleash on the opposition. It is in no way a concern

 

[SoBristol]

I would take it a step farther -- absent foul trouble, Lydon will be defending the center of the zone for as much as 20 to 25 minutes in big games. On the offensive end, he will have a variety of roles -- more of a stretch 4, with his ability to shoot from the outside, or the high post. With Lydon in that role, Roberson (or Thompson) become more effective working closer to the bask.

The qualifier is that whoever is playing the center of the zone will pick up fouls. So, DC starts each half; PC has a role as sweeper in the zone press; and Lydon has to be careful.

 

[jordoo]

This is what happens when you base an opinion on your centers off of two games against small D2 squads. Those where both guard games.

Lydon's ability to play the 5 is a boon. It will drive opposing coaches nuts. Sure a handful of teams are big enough to take advantage of that but 6-7, 6-9, 6-8 across the back line is not small.

 

[OrangeZeus]

Coleman played 17.5 mpg last season. I expect him to play somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 mpg this season. Maybe more, maybe less. But that's about half the game right there for Coleman.

A lot still depends on how Chukwu performs. Is he going to only spell minutes at C or is he actually going to be more than a body to throw on the court and provide us with quality minutes. If it's the latter, I think he gets at least 10 mpg, maybe up to 15 mpg. That would leave about 5-10 mpg left to split between Thompson and Lydon at the center position. If Chukwu turns out to be a liability by the time we get to ACC play, then I'd definitely expect Lydon to eat into Chukwu's minutes. But it's still too early to write off Chukwu just yet.

We also have to take into account the opponent. Against some teams we can afford to play smaller with Lydon at center. Maybe a team like Pitt since their best big, Michael Young, is 6'9 235. Lydon can compete against that size. Now if it's someone like BeeJay Anya, I'd much rather see a bigger body on him than Lydon. Lydon got pushed around too much last year. Granted he gained more strength, so maybe he'd do a little better this season, but I'm not sold on Lydon getting minutes at center like he did last year. Last year he played center out of necessity. Hopefully it doesn't have to be that way this year.

I also wouldn't put Lydon at center to make our offense better if it just makes our defense worse. We'll be fine offensively no matter which defensive position Lydon is playing. White and Battle can fill it up. Roberson will clean up the glass for easy put backs. Howard and Gillon could breakout any given game. My main concern this year is defense. A lot of new faces will be getting minutes in the zone this year. We have the length, but not the experience. Last year's zone was great because of Gbinije and Cooney being experienced at the top of the zone. We don't have the luxury of experienced guards in the 2-3 zone this year.

Tl;dr I expect Lydon to play some center just about every game. But depending on how Chukwu performs before ACC play, hopefully Lydon doesn't have to play center unless it's against an opponent where we can afford to play small.

 

[SoBristol]

Well, opinions can differ on this -- and we will have to see what JB does against Wisconsin at the end of the month, then U Conn in early December.
We may not have experience at the top of zone, but Battle, Howard & White have the size and strength to block penetration and make it difficult for 3 point shooters, and Gillon is smart & quick.

When you watch our centers defend the middle of zone, watch how easily Coleman gets beat, and watch how PC gets pushed around even by these smaller teams. Then compare Lydon.

 

[OttoMets]

I appreciate the concern, but if this team's a great one it won't be because of defense. I just hope the guards get up to speed quickly and everyone can protect Lydon from picking up unnecessary fouls.

 

[jr4750]

Maybe TT can give us some serviceable minutes there. I have a feeling Chukwu is more of a liability right now all around. Boeheim won't be playing him many more minutes moving forward, imo.

Totally agree. Given his limitations on offense, as well as how slight he is (can you imagine what Kennedy Meeks will do to him) he will get spot duty at best, and probably become the 9th man. My bet is TT passes him up asap, as a sub for Roberson, as well as to bring someone in to push TL back to the 4, when DC is not being effective. I bet TT plays more minutes at the 5 this year than PC.

 

[RF2044]

I don't share this well articulated concern -- chiefly, because I want the best five players on the floor to close games. And given the breakdown of who those best five players are, it is very likely that Lydon will see time in the pivot.

Keep in mind that matchups work both ways, and that Lydon is a difficult guy for opposing bigs to check, too.

 

[SoBristol]

Totally agree. Given his limitations on offense, as well as how slight he is (can you imagine what Kennedy Meeks will do to him) he will get spot duty at best, and probably become the 9th man. My bet is TT passes him up asap, as a sub for Roberson, as well as to bring someone in to push TL back to the 4, when DC is not being effective. I bet TT plays more minutes at the 5 this year than PC.

Yes as to PC's limitations. The flip here is that Lydon has played the center of the zone when he and Thompson are on the court together. And, in the press, Thompson defends the in-bound pass, while Lydon is the sweeper.

And, I doubt that will change unless Lydon is playing through foul trouble.

 

[SoBristol]

I appreciate the concern, but if this team's a great one it won't be because of defense. I just hope the guards get up to speed quickly and everyone can protect Lydon from picking up unnecessary fouls.

I like this, but also wonder where this team will fall short on defense? It should score in bunches, and get out well in transition. The scores both ways might be higher than we saw last season, with a quicker pace, especially if JB uses the press more. But the back of the zone is better than last season; and the top of the zone has the potential to be almost as good by February and March.

 

[OttoMets]

I like this, but also wonder where this team will fall short on defense? It should score in bunches, and get out well in transition. The scores both ways might be higher than we saw last season, with a quicker pace, especially if JB uses the press more. But the back of the zone is better than last season; and the top of the zone has the potential to be almost as good by February and March.

I don't disagree with your last line, though it's unrealized potential up top, and the back is dependent on the lineup shaking out.

Howard's good and Battle's been very impressive, so I agree that they could improve to a point where they're better than we were last season (I'll concede the fact that Cooney and Gbinije were solid, though I think Cooney was mechanical, slow, and generally overrated by the fanbase). That's no certainty, though, and they're not there yet. And I don't think we'll be strong with a lot of Gillon in the lineup. He's too small and the learning curve is too steep.

The back line's a coin flip:

At center, Lydon should be improved from last season, but it's never a positive when you're moving your best player to an unnatural position that just happens to be a foul magnet. Our guards will have to be excellent to protect him; they can't be the same sieve that had Christmas playing matador defense two years ago. The big guy, I don't know. He's slow. Coleman is what he is that this point, and that's a knowledgeable but mechanical and not very effective defender.

For the forwards, Roberson should be no worse than he was last season (good). Thompson looks to have a good IQ, but he's looked shaky on the week; again, that steep learning curve leaves me with low expectations for just about any freshman. White's got the same problem, and he's looked slow. And Lydon's spent so much time out of position that we shouldn't hope for him to be a great defender on the wing.

So that could be a wash; Malachi came into his own as a defender late in the year (to be expected, I think he's more gifted than Thompson or White).

I'll be most interested to see how the traps and press can keep us out of half-court defense for 6-10 possessions a game. That plus offense will be how we win games. If the zone becomes another weapon by March, even better.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Maybe TT can give us some serviceable minutes there. I have a feeling Chukwu is more of a liability right now all around. Boeheim won't be playing him many more minutes moving forward, imo.

No, you don't give up on kids this early in the season. They get better by playing in real games. TT has already gotten some time in the middle (vs. LeMoyne), so that was a positive. Chukwu will get to play in a dozen games, and we'll know if he smooths out the rough edges and picks up enough savvy to be able to help us against top flight competition. Having a 7-2 guy in the zone is a real difference maker. This kid is way better than Sean Williams. You have to give him time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Wow. I can't disagree with this any more.

Yes. Lydon is going to play a lot of minutes at C this year. But thankfully, not because he has to, but because Boeheim knows playing that way (for stretches) is to our incredible benefit.

The 2016-17 Tyler Lydon won't be playing C because he "has to," it will be because he is an athletic and strong 6'9 225 rim protector. He can more than hold his own there defensively for ~10-15 minutes a game. And when he's at C on defense...good god. There are a very few teams in the country that can handle us offensively.

DC and PC will play roles this year, but Lydon being an effective anchor in the zone is an enormous positive. Its just another weapon for Boeheim to unleash on the opposition. It is in no way a concern

Yeah, after the first 2 exhibitions, I agree with your assessment. Personally, I would prefer not to see him there so much. Maybe that has an impact on his outside shooting. Banging with guys underneath is tiring, especially when they've got 30-50 pounds on you. You didn't see that vs. the 2 exhibition opponents, but you will later this season.

I think the trend in basketball is toward small ball; just look at the NBA and the Warriors, in particular. That's what Boeheim is responding to, and it's something that Duke has done for several years, now. So I agree. I just hope he continues to play the other guys enough that they continue to improve and when they play, they play with confidence.

 

[Brooky03]

I don't see why Lydon would need to play many minutes at Center. Coleman will be good for at least 15 mpg and the same goes for Chukwu, in the worst case scenario. That leaves Lydon with 10 mpg at Center, again, in the worst case scenario. That's not bad.

I don't understand what people did or didn't see with Chukwu. He rebounded well and protected the rim well from what I saw in both exhibitions. With the other players we have on the team, his offense literally doesn't matter.

 

[jr4750]

Yes as to PC's limitations. The flip here is that Lydon has played the center of the zone when he and Thompson are on the court together. And, in the press, Thompson defends the in-bound pass, while Lydon is the sweeper.

And, I doubt that will change unless Lydon is playing through foul trouble.

That's a good point, probably will keep TT at the 4 most of the time. JB did also say that TT was the best in the high post, which would naturally put him at the 4. My concern is the one Otto noted too, foul trouble. You would think we would have up to 15 fouls to give for the center position, with DC, PC and TL, but TL will be moved around a bunch, and obviously he is too valuable to get into foul trouble and not be pulled. It'll be interesting regardless. When pressing, I get having TT up front, but if he is in the game for the 2-3, in my humble inexperienced position, I think he is a better 5 than 4. He's quick, but no Roberson or Lydon.

 

[007]

I gotta believe that JB will play Lydon at the 5 a lot in games that matter most. And not because he has to (foul trouble for DC PC), but because he can. Lydon at the 5 will always give JB the ability to put his best scoring O on the floor - and it's not even close.

The 2-3 is going to take longer to gel this year than we've grown accustomed to because 60% of the players on the floor are new to JB's system (I'm including PC in there due to lack of game experience). Offense will be at a premium when we play the big boys.

 

[SoBristol]

...

The back line's a coin flip:

At center, Lydon should be improved from last season, but it's never a positive when you're moving your best player to an unnatural position that just happens to be a foul magnet. Our guards will have to be excellent to protect him; they can't be the same sieve that had Christmas playing matador defense two years ago. The big guy, I don't know. He's slow. Coleman is what he is that this point, and that's a knowledgeable but mechanical and not very effective defender.

For the forwards, Roberson should be no worse than he was last season (good). Thompson looks to have a good IQ, but he's looked shaky on the week; again, that steep learning curve leaves me with low expectations for just about any freshman. White's got the same problem, and he's looked slow. ... QUOTE]

Good arguments, and we will see how it works when the big games come along.

I disagree about Lydon's "natural position" -- he came here as a lanky small forward, but he has grown into a powerful player who looks comfortable inside. At center, we are in better shape than last season, with more options (Chukwu), Coleman's improved conditioning, and Lydon's added muscle. Just watch Lydon defend and rebound in traffic and you can see his progress. We did not have anyone like PC at the back of a press last season.
At forward, Lydon was a true frosh last season learning the defense, same for Richardson. Roberson was playing at 205 lbs. Both Lydon and Roberson are stronger and more experienced. White has veteran experience (practicing against big time forwards at Kansas), and led Nebraska in rebounding. We did not have anyone like Thompson in reserve last season -- and he will contribute and get better. 6ft 10 in and coachable -- a lot of potential to be a factor in March.

 

[SoBristol]

That's a good point, probably will keep TT at the 4 most of the time. JB did also say that TT was the best in the high post, which would naturally put him at the 4. My concern is the one Otto noted too, foul trouble. You would think we would have up to 15 fouls to give for the center position, with DC, PC and TL, but TL will be moved around a bunch, and obviously he is too valuable to get into foul trouble and not be pulled. It'll be interesting regardless. When pressing, I get having TT up front, but if he is in the game for the 2-3, in my humble inexperienced position, I think he is a better 5 than 4. He's quick, but no Roberson or Lydon.

Let me repeat one quibble about the short-hands "4" and "5". On offense, JB mixes up what we wants from Lydon depending on the combinations and the defenses. It isn't apparent what people mean by the 5 (low post? high post? the one who sets high picks against a M2M?). Whatever the numbers, Lydon is very effective from the high post, and Thompson looks like he is a good scorer in the paint.

As for Thompson on the wing of the defense, give it a chance.

 

[zhanjuzi]

No, you don't give up on kids this early in the season. They get better by playing in real games. TT has already gotten some time in the middle (vs. LeMoyne), so that was a positive. Chukwu will get to play in a dozen games, and we'll know if he smooths out the rough edges and picks up enough savvy to be able to help us against top flight competition. Having a 7-2 guy in the zone is a real difference maker. This kid is way better than Sean Williams. You have to give him time.

If he can play as well as Sean did against Butler (I always believed he had a much better game than Rick and got yanked too early) he will be quite adequate.

 

[RF2044]

If he can play as well as Sean did against Butler (I always believed he had a much better game than Rick and got yanked too early) he will be quite adequate.

Just out of curiosity, did you mean Dashonte Riley [instead of Sean Williams]?