NBA 2017-2018 thread

[ScrabbCuse]

Any chance Cleveland flips some of this trade for Melo?

There are some decent players included, but the Knicks probably wouldn't take any of them without a draft pick. No way the Cavs are giving up the Brooklyn pick for Melo. I don't think Melo would approve of a trade to Cleveland anyway so it's a moot point most likely.

 

[SUintheVille]

I'm sad to see IT go, I like him as a player and person (the whole thing losing his sister in the playoffs was very sad, but he persevered). But Irving should be the better player overall, and he'll be there for at least 2 years on a decent contract. Crowder is good, but Brown and Tatum should be absolute studs in a couple years or so, and Celts were able to retain them. At least Tatum gets more PT now. Loosing Nets pick isn't great, but again Celts have Brown and Tatum, which is awesome and lessons the blow of the loss of the pick.

Don't know much about Zizic or how much he would play. Celtics do need more rebounding. Wouldn't have minded seeing a role player coming over from Cavs too since it was essentially a 4 for 1 player deal, but it will be exciting as a Celts fan this fall. May take a bit of time for all these new players to gel. Remember too that IT will now be paired with Lebron so IT will get plenty of assists but IT may no longer be the guy, so who knows how that will affect IT's production or mentality.

 

[OrangeDW]

There are some decent players included, but the Knicks probably wouldn't take any of them without a draft pick. No way the Cavs are giving up the Brooklyn pick for Melo. I don't think Melo would approve of a trade to Cleveland anyway so it's a moot point most likely.

The Draft pick and Love for Carmelo and Porzingis. Make it happen!

 

[SUintheVille]

It's crazy. With this trade, by my count, there are only 4 players left from last year's team (Smart, Brown, Horford, and Rozier). Lots of rookies.

 

[Alsacs]

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The Draft pick and Love for Carmelo and Porzingis. Make it happen!

Melo isn't going there. LBZJ is out next year.

 

[ScrabbCuse]

The Draft pick and Love for Carmelo and Porzingis. Make it happen!

No way would I give up Porzingis for Love or the draft pick. Knicks should be terrible enough on their own to get no worse than the 7th or 8th pick. Hope that a mediocre third team is found to help send Melo to the Rockets and get a lower lottery draft pick in return. Two top 15 picks, even though most likely not top 5, would be a nice start in the rebuilding process. I'd be happy with that as a Knicks fan. Build the team around Porzingis with solid, young players.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm just so stunned by this. I said before that Boston would have to blow everyone away with an offer to get Cleveland to bite, but I never thought Ainge would actually do it.

I personally think this is a huge win for Cleveland. Makes Cleveland better in the short-term and they also get the Nets pick for the long-term.

I kinda get it for Boston. While I think a healthy Isaiah is better than Kyrie, maxing out Isaiah would have been a bad move. Kyrie can be there long-term. I'm still kinda stunned that after all these years of refusing to trade the Nets picks, Ainge finally gave it up for essentially a younger version of a player he already had.

This is going to be a really fascinating trade to look back on in a few years.

 

[Trueblue25]

I'm just so stunned by this. I said before that Boston would have to blow everyone away with an offer to get Cleveland to bite, but I never thought Ainge would actually do it.

I personally think this is a huge win for Cleveland. Makes Cleveland better in the short-term and they also get the Nets pick for the long-term.

I kinda get it for Boston. While I think a healthy Isaiah is better than Kyrie, maxing out Isaiah would have been a bad move. Kyrie can be there long-term. I'm still kinda stunned that after all these years of refusing to trade the Nets picks, Ainge finally gave it up for essentially a younger version of a player he already had.

This is going to be a really fascinating trade to look back on in a few years.

Isaiah was very talented and fun to watch. Unfortunately he was completely overmatched through much of the playoffs and his body couldn't take the bump and grind included. Then he made the wise decision of going on Twitter and making it very clear that Ainge better pay up to keep him.

Sionara pequino amigo.

Kyrie will take us to the next level in the playoffs. Faster/strong/better finisher, better defender (if not just for being taller) and better fit.

I think Isaiah's few heroic moments last season really outshined him lingering flaws.

 

[Alsacs]

The pick isn't likely going to be as good this year.

Chicago, Atlanta, and Orlando are all worse than Brooklyn right now,

The Nets won't tank. They aren't good but they will play hard the whole year.

Unless this pick is top 3 it won't be a huge loss. Cleveland will have to pay a 29 year old Isaiah to a 3-4 year deal at 28-33 million per year.

Boston got a superstar. Anthony Davis wasn't going to be available for 2 years. Cleveland got a nice role player, center who is young, and a lottery pick which could be great but it's not a lock to be top 3.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Boston at Cleveland opening night, Oct. 17. Heart be still. How jacked is LeBron going to be after this off-season? Love Kyrie to death -- we'll always have The Shot in the 2016 championship game -- and I think he's a better individual player than Steph (Kyrie's unguardable), but a team guy, he's not.

Isaiah's deficiencies were magnified and exposed, particularly in the rough-and-tumble post-season, because you don't win with a 5-9 guy as your top player. Different situation in Cleveland.

And Jae Crowder is precisely what the Cavs need, a strong wing defender. I like the trade a lot.

Grades: Celtics land Kyrie for Thomas, Crowder

 

[Trueblue25]

Hopefully Jaylen Brown's ready to up Crowder's past production.

 

[Melancer46]

Isaiah was very talented and fun to watch. Unfortunately he was completely overmatched through much of the playoffs and his body couldn't take the bump and grind included. Then he made the wise decision of going on Twitter and making it very clear that Ainge better pay up to keep him.

Sionara pequino amigo.

Kyrie will take us to the next level in the playoffs. Faster/strong/better finisher, better defender (if not just for being taller) and better fit.

I think Isaiah's few heroic moments last season really outshined him lingering flaws.

I don't think Kyrie is faster, stronger, or a better finisher honestly. He's a slightly better defender but they're both pretty terrible.

What's the rationale behind saying Kyrie is a better fit? That one isn't something I can say is wrong, but I'm curious why you think that unless you basically just mean he's a better long-term piece.

 

[Melancer46]

The pick isn't likely going to be as good this year.

Chicago, Atlanta, and Orlando are all worse than Brooklyn right now,

The Nets won't tank. They aren't good but they will play hard the whole year.

Unless this pick is top 3 it won't be a huge loss. Cleveland will have to pay a 29 year old Isaiah to a 3-4 year deal at 28-33 million per year.

Boston got a superstar. Anthony Davis wasn't going to be available for 2 years. Cleveland got a nice role player, center who is young, and a lottery pick which could be great but it's not a lock to be top 3.

What has changed to make them try harder this year versus last year? I can understand to a point why people are more optimistic about them this season than last talent-wise, though I don't think they've really improved so much as their competition has gotten worse. I guess we'll see what happens but I expect that pick to still be top 5 when it's all said and done, and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up in the top 3. In the very least, I think the Lakers pick is riskier than the Nets pick.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how Kyrie does in Boston, but I think right now at least, he's worse than Isaiah. It's certainly not a "Boston got a superstar for a nice role player" move. I would definitely rather have Kyrie than Isaiah long-term, but I just don't really get using the Nets pick to possibly get worse in the short-term. The Nets pick alone could end up being better than Kyrie in the long-term too.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If you really watched the Celts this year, Crowder's defense was actually not very good. That said, I think it's a good trade for both teams. Doesn't always have to be one side with a huge win over the other. Celts get Kyrie, avoid paying a 5-9 guy at age 30 top dollars, who also may have injury issues. Cavs still have enough talent to reach Finals as they have LeBron and they also get a draft pick to start to plan for life after LeBron. I actually think the Nets may be a bit better than what many expect and they have no reason to tank unlike other teams this year. I would bet the draft pick is 4-6 range

 

[Alsacs]

What has changed to make them try harder this year versus last year? I can understand to a point why people are more optimistic about them this season than last talent-wise, though I don't think they've really improved so much as their competition has gotten worse. I guess we'll see what happens but I expect that pick to still be top 5 when it's all said and done, and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up in the top 3. In the very least, I think the Lakers pick is riskier than the Nets pick.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how Kyrie does in Boston, but I think right now at least, he's worse than Isaiah. It's certainly not a "Boston got a superstar for a nice role player" move. I would definitely rather have Kyrie than Isaiah long-term, but I just don't really get using the Nets pick to possibly get worse in the short-term. The Nets pick alone could end up being better than Kyrie in the long-term too.

This draft has 2 studs.
Teams will tank this year.
Atlanta and Chicago specifically want to tank.

Brooklyn was actually a .500 team the last month of the season last year.
They aren't going to be good but they will play to win games the whole year and won't tank. If Lin stays healthy with Russell, Crabbe, Carroll, Hollis-Jefferson and LeVert they got some talent.

I expect 25 wins from Brooklyn. They will suck but they aren't going to be as bad as last year.

Isaiah Thomas game relies on speed and cutting. He is 28 going on 29 he will lose it a lot faster as he ages. It's a clear upgrade.

As mentioned above Jae Crowder's defense wasn't that good last year. He wasn't that great. He is a good 3 point shooter and FT shooter. He was a solid player but would have blocked minutes for Jayson Tatum behind Hayward.

Jae Crowder will help Cleveland no doubt but his most valuable asset is his contract.
Zizic has upside but isn't anything special.
IT has a bum hip and one year on his contract. Cleveland has to pay him next year and he will want close to his max of 33 million.

Ainge gambled the pick isn't going to be top 3 plus he has the Lakers pick or Kings pick left and kept Brown and Tatum which was amazing. Also he didn't have to gut his roster and still has perimeter defending in Marcus Smart.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I can't wait for the first report about LeBron getting angry with Thomas for not getting him the ball. Kyrie figured out his role, but it's going to be rough for IT to accept that same role right away, especially after last year.

Celtics won this trade.

 

[Arangeman]

I think it's a great trade for the Celtics. And I hate the Celtics.

What stands out to me is how Kyrie's late gripe hurt the Cavs. Cavs could have flipped that #1 for George or Butler. Zero chance Lebron returns to Cavs now.

 

[Trueblue25]

I don't think Kyrie is faster, stronger, or a better finisher honestly. He's a slightly better defender but they're both pretty terrible.

What's the rationale behind saying Kyrie is a better fit? That one isn't something I can say is wrong, but I'm curious why you think that unless you basically just mean he's a better long-term piece.

Kyrie's unguardable and that's pretty unanimous throughout the east, especially with his past teammates in Cleveland.

Boston's only rivaled by Washington and Cleveland in the East. Those teams had/have two players that have KILLED the Celtics in the past. One being John Wall, who we now match up with better if not for size alone, with Kyrie. The other being kyrie, who was replaced by a guard (IT) who our team can guard and manage. We still have to take Lebron into consideration but Kyrie really is just a bigger IT who finishes better at the rim. IT makes circus shots, Kyrie has moves.

I feel like we lost nothing we couldn't replace, and gained a younger/better version of IT.

Brown/Morris/Tatum/Horford/Heyward/Kyrie/Smart/Rozier/Baynes

Completely fine with that.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

When LeBron leaves, will the Cavs build around Thomas?

 

[Arangeman]

When LeBron leaves, will the Cavs build around Thomas?

Huge mistake if they do. I'd trade him for picks in Jan. Anyone who maxxes IT is making a mistake.

Does Lebron basically take a rest year?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

When LeBron leaves, will the Cavs build around Thomas?

No way, Thomas chases biggest contract he can get for last 3-4 years of his career and rightfully so. I think Thomas is a 1 year guy to give Cavs best shot with LeBron. I think Cavs start 100% over after this year and I think they are planning on it. Got the draft pick, hopefully a solid young big guy in foreign dude, Trade love, they will have to keep Thompson and start over. Like I said, I think it works for everyone. Cavs are obviously planning on life after Lebron whether they want to or not.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The major question with IT is the age and how long 5-9 guy can play into his thirties doing what he does. The hip injury who knows?? Time will tell but it's the same "type: of injury that put an end to Johnny Flynn's career. I don't think that he is/ was in long term plans for Celts or Cavs

As some have said also, Nets made a few moves in the off season that should maybe make them a 25-30 win team and they have ZERO incentive to tank. Teams tank with incentives for losing, doesn't fit here. Celts still have picks but Cavs didn't, win win

 

[Knicks411]

This is a wild trade.

My take on Kyrie vs IT (and I think i said this before) is that last year IT was probably just as good as Kyrie, but last year was almost certainly a career year for IT. I don't blame Boston for not wanting to sign Thomas to a contract next summer. I do think they gave up a lot though. Kyrie is good, but he's got a ton of flaws, and he's no longer going to be playing with the best player in the world, which I think will exacerbate those flaws.

Considering the (lack of) leverage Cleveland had, getting Crowder and that Nets pick, plus Thomas, I think is a hell of a haul for them.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Kyrie equals clutch player and one of the best finishers for a guy his size I have ever seen. Thomas is as well but at least you gain 5 inches and get a guy that isn't a 100% defensive liability, he may be a 75% D liability but he's better than IT