NBA 2017-2018 thread

[Melancer46]

This draft has 2 studs.
Teams will tank this year.
Atlanta and Chicago specifically want to tank.

Brooklyn was actually a .500 team the last month of the season last year.
They aren't going to be good but they will play to win games the whole year and won't tank. If Lin stays healthy with Russell, Crabbe, Carroll, Hollis-Jefferson and LeVert they got some talent.

I expect 25 wins from Brooklyn. They will suck but they aren't going to be as bad as last year.

Isaiah Thomas game relies on speed and cutting. He is 28 going on 29 he will lose it a lot faster as he ages. It's a clear upgrade.

As mentioned above Jae Crowder's defense wasn't that good last year. He wasn't that great. He is a good 3 point shooter and FT shooter. He was a solid player but would have blocked minutes for Jayson Tatum behind Hayward.

Jae Crowder will help Cleveland no doubt but his most valuable asset is his contract.
Zizic has upside but isn't anything special.
IT has a bum hip and one year on his contract. Cleveland has to pay him next year and he will want close to his max of 33 million.

Ainge gambled the pick isn't going to be top 3 plus he has the Lakers pick or Kings pick left and kept Brown and Tatum which was amazing. Also he didn't have to gut his roster and still has perimeter defending in Marcus Smart.

25 wins = #2 pick last year. And if those players you mention stay healthy, they're still at best the 3rd worst team in the NBA in my opinion.

Obviously a lot can change from now until next year's draft, but for now at least, it's considered to be 7 prospects fighting for the #1 spot in the draft. It's a really deep draft at the top (right now). A top 3 pick would absolutely give them a shot at a superstar unless this class turns out to be a lot worse than expected.

I agree regarding Isaiah's flaws, but he's a better scorer and passer right now than Kyrie is. Worse defender, but at worst, it's a tiny upgrade in the short-term, and no Crowder is still worse than having Crowder. I've made it clear that I think maxing out Isaiah as he enters his age 29 season would be a disaster; no doubt having Kyrie long-term is a better option. Trading Isaiah for Kyrie makes a ton of sense for Boston. But trading Isaiah + the Brooklyn pick + other assets does not IMO.

Between these two options, I'd easily take the top one:

Fultz, Porter/Doncic/Ayton, whatever you can get for Isaiah, Crowder, Zizic

vs.

Kyrie, Tatum

 

[KaiserUEO]

Why the NBA powers that be hate the Knicks is beyond me.

Getting ready to throw in the towel on the whole league...

 

[Alsacs]

25 wins = #2 pick last year. And if those players you mention stay healthy, they're still at best the 3rd worst team in the NBA in my opinion.

Obviously a lot can change from now until next year's draft, but for now at least, it's considered to be 7 prospects fighting for the #1 spot in the draft. It's a really deep draft at the top (right now). A top 3 pick would absolutely give them a shot at a superstar unless this class turns out to be a lot worse than expected.

I agree regarding Isaiah's flaws, but he's a better scorer and passer right now than Kyrie is. Worse defender, but at worst, it's a tiny upgrade in the short-term, and no Crowder is still worse than having Crowder. I've made it clear that I think maxing out Isaiah as he enters his age 29 season would be a disaster; no doubt having Kyrie long-term is a better option. Trading Isaiah for Kyrie makes a ton of sense for Boston. But trading Isaiah + the Brooklyn pick + other assets does not IMO.

Between these two options, I'd easily take the top one:

Fultz, Porter/Doncic/Ayton, whatever you can get for Isaiah, Crowder, Zizic

vs.

Kyrie, Tatum

On the bottom you gotta add the lottery pick from the Lakers/Kings as well.
Plus Boston moving the first pick allowed them to only move one player to fit Gordon Hayward's max salary.
They got Morris for Bradley because of that deal.

I don't think 25 wins will be 2nd worst next year.
Bulls/Hawks clearly have worse rosters than Nets.
Nets will Battle Lakers/Kings/Suns/Magic for bad records.

I don't think this trade is a killer unless the Cavs get Bagley or Porter.
Plus the Lakers pick next year could be 2-5 for Boston.

Fultz vs. Tatum is debatable. Celtics could still get one of those studs.

Crowder is a nice player but isn't a killer loss. He was awful in the ECF.

Boston got better. Stars are hard to get in their primes. Boston got one and isn't winning the East next year. They will be the favorites if LeBron goes West after next year.

 

[Alsacs]

Why the NBA powers that be hate the Knicks is beyond me.

Getting ready to throw in the towel on the whole league...

Jim Dolan.

The NBA can't help when your owner is a boob and the Knicks keep trading unprotected first round picks and haven't kept a rookie beyond his rookie deal since Charlie Ward.

 

[Alsacs]

Here's how Danny Ainge turned Pierce, KG + Rondo into Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, Yabu, Ojeleye, Nader, Allen + two 1st-round picks still to come:

What Ainge has done since 2013.

This guy has rebuilt this team amazingly fast.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Why the NBA powers that be hate the Knicks is beyond me.

Getting ready to throw in the towel on the whole league...

Dolan's toxic. Start a GoFundMe to hire a button man or woman.

 

[MikeSU02]

Why the NBA powers that be hate the Knicks is beyond me.

Getting ready to throw in the towel on the whole league...

For me, I'll never get tired of rooting for Melo (even though he's almost assuredly getting traded soon) and KP. I'll psych myself up for Frankie Nicotine (that nickname *has* to stick) and then hope Noah retires to go start a commune somewhere.

If, somehow we end up one of the worst teams, we can get one of Bagley / Porter / Doncic (not sure if we can outdo ATL, Magic, CHI, etc).

 

[kirbivore]

Jim Dolan.

The NBA can't help when your owner is a boob and the Knicks keep trading unprotected first round picks and haven't kept a rookie beyond his rookie deal since Charlie Ward.

 

[Knicks411]

For me, I'll never get tired of rooting for Melo (even though he's almost assuredly getting traded soon) and KP. I'll psych myself up for Frankie Nicotine (that nickname *has* to stick) and then hope Noah retires to go start a commune somewhere.

If, somehow we end up one of the worst teams, we can get one of Bagley / Porter / Doncic (not sure if we can outdo ATL, Magic, CHI, etc).

I am irrationally excited for Doncic. I've decided he's going to be amazing.

 

[MikeSU02]

I am irrationally excited for Doncic. I've decided he's going to be amazing.

Same. I love his game and I love that he can basically play 1-3. I don't think people fully grasp the level of competition he is beating down and how young he is.

 

[Knicks411]

Same. I love his game and I love that he can basically play 1-3. I don't think people fully grasp the level of competition he is beating down and how young he is.

I've fallen in love with the 8-10 seconds gifs i've seen.

 

[Alsacs]

Knicks fans if they want a stud have to trade Melo.

As been mentioned they aren't one of the bottom 5 rosters right now.
They are a lottery team but not a bad one right now.

 

[Knicks411]

Knicks fans if they want a stud have to trade Melo.

As been mentioned they aren't one of the bottom 5 rosters right now.
They are a lottery team but not a bad one right now.

Maybe one of these years we can actually move up in the lottery?

 

[Alsacs]

Maybe one of these years we can actually move up in the lottery?

Yeah it can happen but after the top 5 it's really hard to move up based on the math of odds.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah it can happen but after the top 5 it's really hard to move up based on the math of odds.

We went from 2 to 4 a few years back, and dropped a spot this year. We're owed one!

That is totally how it works.

For the exact numbers, if anyone is curious, looks like the 7th worst team has a 15% chance of moving into the top 3, 8th has 10%, and 6th has 21.5%. So, yeah.

 

[Alsacs]

 

[Knicks411]

I was talking with my buddy about this, does that package improve Cle more this year than IT and Jae? It puts a lot on Lebron, there's no real second creator. Both are pretty solid players though

 

[Alsacs]

I was talking with my buddy about this, does that package improve Cle more this year than IT and Jae? It puts a lot on Lebron, there's no real second creator. Both are pretty solid players though

Milwaukee package helps them more next year.

Isaiah is going to miss some time apparently. Not the season but maybe a couple of weeks.

Boston package is better for them long term. As they are getting a lottery pick back.

LeBron is gone after the year unless they win the last Lottery and that pick appeals to LBJ.

Middleton and Brogdon help them more next year but GS is still better.

 

[Knicks411]

Milwaukee package helps them more next year.

Isaiah is going to miss some time apparently. Not the season but maybe a couple of weeks.

Boston package is better for them long term. As they are getting a lottery pick back.

LeBron is gone after the year unless they win the last Lottery and that pick appeals to LBJ.

Middleton and Brogdon help them more next year but GS is still better.

Yeah I agree the Nets pick definitely swings the equation. Was just trying to look at it purely from next season.

Didn;t realize IT is going to miss time. This thing could linger

 

[Melancer46]

Same. I love his game and I love that he can basically play 1-3. I don't think people fully grasp the level of competition he is beating down and how young he is.

He can play those roles offensively, but there isn't a chance in hell that he can defend PGs. He's basically a point forward.

I do like him a lot though; personally, I prefer him over what I've seen of the other 2018 draft prospects so far.

 

[Melancer46]

I was talking with my buddy about this, does that package improve Cle more this year than IT and Jae? It puts a lot on Lebron, there's no real second creator. Both are pretty solid players though

I definitely think Brogdon + Middleton helps Cleveland more this upcoming year than Isaiah, Crowder, and Zizic.

I get the concern about a 2nd creator, but Love, Middleton, and Brogdon are all capable creators. Maybe not the types that you can just hand the ball for long stretches and tell them to go get buckets, but between the three of them, they could definitely create scoring chances. Brogdon and Middleton are both very good in the pick and roll, both can post up, both can spot up, Middleton can run off screens. And Love can be a go-to guy from the high post/a pick and pop partner/spot-up guy while Thompson is the screener.

As you said though, the Nets pick is what did it for Boston's offer. If Cleveland took the Milwaukee package (if we believe it was offered...other reports shot it down but that could easily be damage control) and LeBron left the following year, the Cavs would have no go-to guy and would just be a middling team in the East for awhile unless they blew it up then.

With the Brooklyn pick, the Cavs can potentially get a new go-to guy to lead them into the future.

 

[MikeSU02]

He can play those roles offensively, but there isn't a chance in hell that he can defend PGs. He's basically a point forward.

I do like him a lot though; personally, I prefer him over what I've seen of the other 2018 draft prospects so far.

Very fair critique. I'm usually more lenient on defense for young players and hope he can become solid (ex: Lonzo Ball can't play a lick of D, but I think he can become adequate).

 

[MikeSU02]

Milwaukee package helps them more next year.

Isaiah is going to miss some time apparently. Not the season but maybe a couple of weeks.

Boston package is better for them long term. As they are getting a lottery pick back.

LeBron is gone after the year unless they win the last Lottery and that pick appeals to LBJ.

Middleton and Brogdon help them more next year but GS is still better.

Is there any chance IT could fail the physical?

 

[Knicks411]

Is there any chance IT could fail the physical?

Technically yes, but realistically, I would have to say no, right? Even if he did, it's the Cavs docs giving it, right? So they could just take the deal anyway. Unless the dude's hip is just completely shot.

 

[Alsacs]

Is there any chance IT could fail the physical?

No because Ainge was very transparent with the medicals to Cleveland.

Cleveland did the trade for the pick.
Plus Isaiah won't be out for the whole season. He just may miss a few weeks if in September his visit to the doctor tells him to rest a few more weeks.

Isaiah will play next year.
Boston was expecting him to miss all of camp and be ready full go by Halloween.