NBA 2017-2018 thread

[Knicks411]

Al Horford would be the money to make the deal happen.
He wouldn't be traded for any other reason.
They would need to trade NO atleast 23 million to match Davis salary.
The Memphis pick isn't till 2019.
It's 1-9 protected in 2019
It's 1-6 protected in 2020.
Unprotected in 2021.
Memphis has problems coming and the West has gotten better with the Lakers coming after next year.

Minnesota and Denver are both coming this year as well. Memphis was 7 seed last year. They lost Z-Bo and are getting older with Conley and Gasol.

I would be really shocked if Memphis picks in the top 9 this year. They still have Conley and Gasol. They were a 7 seed last year, but that also makes them sound worse than they were. They had the 20th (tied for 19th really) pick last year. Not every year is the same, granted, but the team with the 9th pick last year was Dallas with 33 wins; Memphis was 43 last year.

You need Tatum or Brown to really take a step forward this year. Possible, for sure. (Ok well Tatum hasn't played yet, not sure step forward is the right phrase. But they would probably need to be the anchor to the deal I mean)

 

[Knicks411]

Sorry, I'm being dumb, I thought 2019 was next season. Didn't realize the Memphis pick can't convey till year after next at the earliest.

 

[Alsacs]

Sorry, I'm being dumb, I thought 2019 was next season. Didn't realize the Memphis pick can't convey till year after next at the earliest.

Yeah they won 43 last year I would expect a small regression next year and by 2019 they will be a lottery team.

They are getting worse as well. Randolph is a big loss and Gasol is getting older.

That pick will be better than Boston expected when it was acquired.

 

[MSOrange]

Report: Cavs weighing completion of trade following Thomas physical

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Report: Cavs weighing completion of trade following Thomas physical

Wowza. Rough week for Isaiah. Ainge tried to get away with selling damaged goods. Crowder and the Nets draft pick are the big gets of the deal for the Cavs, hate to see them have to give them up.

What the Cavs Should Do If Isaiah Thomas Failed His Physical

 

[Alsacs]

If the Cavs want more I tell them no.
If they want to rescind the trade go ahead and take Malcolm Brogdon and Kris Middleton.

They want the draft pick. Ainge should say take it or leave it.

Give them nothing more. They didn't try to sell damage goods they never hid the injury or medicals.

Cleveland has to move to Irving they have no leverage. Go take the Bucks deal with a crap draft pick.
Phoenix isn't giving up Jackson.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If the Cavs want more I tell them no.
If they want to rescind the trade go ahead and take Malcolm Brogdon and Kris Middleton.

They want the draft pick. Ainge should say take it or leave it.

Give them nothing more. They didn't try to sell damage goods they never hid the injury or medicals.

Cleveland has to move to Irving they have no leverage. Go take the Bucks deal with a crap draft pick.
Phoenix isn't giving up Jackson.

Flip side is there's no way, no way at all the Celtics can bring IT back, and who else would take him at this point with the hip issue?

 

[Alsacs]

Flip side is there's no way, no way at all the Celtics can bring IT back, and who else would take him at this point with the hip issue?

They can bring him back.
He is in a contract year.
If he wants to get paid he will play and move on.
Boston isn't giving anything more.
Cleveland has to move Kyrie.
Isaiah doesn't play he won't get the payday he wants.

Go ahead and rescind the trade. Take Milwaukee offer. Boston will lose IT like they were going to anyway. Ainge wasn't paying him.

If Cleveland rescinds they won't get a lottery pick with potential. They will get pieces for next year and LeBron moves on. They will be in a rebuild without an asset to help them.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

They can bring him back.
He is in a contract year.
If he wants to get paid he will play and move on.
Boston isn't giving anything more.
Cleveland has to move Kyrie.
Isaiah doesn't play he won't get the payday he wants.

Go ahead and rescind the trade. Take Milwaukee offer. Boston will lose IT like they were going to anyway. Ainge wasn't paying him.

Isaiah's the least-important piece of the deal for the Cavs. The Cavs' new 34-year-old GM done good his first time out, particularly with what he had to work with.

Let Isaiah take his time, rehab, came back around Christmas or later, hope Derrick Rose stays healthy and Calderon can give 'em some run. If need be, turn the rock over to LBJ.

I'd like to see the Cavs work a deal for Shumpert. I'm sure they would, too.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They can bring him back.
He is in a contract year.
If he wants to get paid he will play and move on.
Boston isn't giving anything more.
Cleveland has to move Kyrie.
Isaiah doesn't play he won't get the payday he wants.

Go ahead and rescind the trade. Take Milwaukee offer. Boston will lose IT like they were going to anyway. Ainge wasn't paying him.

If Cleveland rescinds they won't get a lottery pick with potential. They will get pieces for next year and LeBron moves on. They will be in a rebuild without an asset to help them.

Boston needs to move IT a lot more than the Cavs need to move Kyrie at this point. The Cavs were already dysfunctional. If IT comes back, it's going to introduce a whole lot of dysfunction to the Celtics. You can't crap all over a guy that's a lifetime underdog that believed he was part of the core (and why wouldn't he, considering he was considered an MVP candidate), that elected to put team first instead of improving his own contract situation, that the infamous Beantown smear campaign has already started against, that has had the cards shown to him that Ainge wasn't going to give him the contract he was working towards, and put that guy back in the locker room.

I mean Hell, I'd love to see it. Cavs rescind, Boston refuses to revisit the deal, and NBA fans get to sit back and watch how Boston deals with the consequences.

 

[Ward]

Boston needs to move IT a lot more than the Cavs need to move Kyrie at this point. The Cavs were already dysfunctional. If IT comes back, it's going to introduce a whole lot of dysfunction to the Celtics. You can't crap all over a guy that's a lifetime underdog that believed he was part of the core (and why wouldn't he, considering he was considered an MVP candidate), that elected to put team first instead of improving his own contract situation, that the infamous Beantown smear campaign has already started against, that has had the cards shown to him that Ainge wasn't going to give him the contract he was working towards, and put that guy back in the locker room.

I mean Hell, I'd love to see it. Cavs rescind, Boston refuses to revisit the deal, and NBA fans get to sit back and watch how Boston deals with the consequences.

Pretty much my exact thoughts. Kyrie going back to Cavs annoyed isn't that big of a deal because it sounds like there's been distunction there for awhile. Kyrie isn't stupid either. He knows his endorsement money and sponsors wont like him having a subpar year or grabbing headlines for not showing up to camp.

Celtics culture was one of comraderie and toughness and IT was the face of that. He was all over the place here in Boston and a fan favorite. Now you ship him off and have local media pound their chest on how you fleeced Cleveland by shipping him their way, fans celebrating him leaving and KI coming and how Ainge had no intention of paying him what he wanted anyways. How can you bring him back and expect it to be fine? His trade value after a failed physical would be crushed too.

This is much worse for Boston if the trade falls through.

 

[Alsacs]

Boston needs to move IT a lot more than the Cavs need to move Kyrie at this point. The Cavs were already dysfunctional. If IT comes back, it's going to introduce a whole lot of dysfunction to the Celtics. You can't crap all over a guy that's a lifetime underdog that believed he was part of the core (and why wouldn't he, considering he was considered an MVP candidate), that elected to put team first instead of improving his own contract situation, that the infamous Beantown smear campaign has already started against, that has had the cards shown to him that Ainge wasn't going to give him the contract he was working towards, and put that guy back in the locker room.

I mean Hell, I'd love to see it. Cavs rescind, Boston refuses to revisit the deal, and NBA fans get to sit back and watch how Boston deals with the consequences.

Boston smear campaign was by Chris Broussard who I would bet money didn't get multiple executives from other teams tell him what he said about Isaiah.

Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge have done nothing but praise Isaiah.

2 idiots who aren't indicative of the fanbase burning his jerseys aren't the fanbase.

Isaiah would come back and be gone.

Boston will deal just fine thanks to Gordon from Utah.

People think they overpaid for Kyrie. So if that's the case keep Crowder and the draft pick. Let Isaiah rehab and be the second best team in the Easy like they would be with Kyrie.

Cleveland isn't getting anymore. Rescind the deal. The Celtics can take a step back. They have Marcus smart on a contract year.
Cleveland wants Tatum and they aren't getting him.

 

[Alsacs]

Pretty much my exact thoughts. Kyrie going back to Cavs annoyed isn't that big of a deal because it sounds like there's been distunction there for awhile. Kyrie isn't stupid either. He knows his endorsement money and sponsors wont like him having a subpar year or grabbing headlines for not showing up to camp.

Celtics culture was one of comraderie and toughness and IT was the face of that. He was all over the place here in Boston and a fan favorite. Now you ship him off and have local media pound their chest on how you fleeced Cleveland by shipping him their way, fans celebrating him leaving and KI coming and how Ainge had no intention of paying him what he wanted anyways. How can you bring him back and expect it to be fine? His trade value after a failed physical would be crushed too.

This is much worse for Boston if the trade falls through.

Everyone outside of Boston thinks they overpaid for Kyrie.

Boston may not have leverage but neither does Cleveland.

They want assets for now and the future. Nobody can give them a high lottery pick outside of the Knicks.

Fail the physical it's fine. Boston wasn't doing this trade for next year. They were doing it for 2-3 years from now.

Cleveland can take Brogdon and Middleton and be better next year then.

Thomas was a fan favorite but he wasn't going to take a 3 year 90 million contract from Boston he wanted 5 years supermax.
He will get his money from Philly or elsewhere now.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge have done nothing but praise Isaiah.

Danny Ainge has done nothing but praise IT? Nothing?

Nothing?

 

[Knicks411]

Danny Ainge has done nothing but praise IT? Nothing?

Nothing?

Does trading him away count as praising him?

I am doubting IT gets a max. Not sure that has anything to do with this issue here, just throwing my opinion out there.

 

[Ward]

Everyone outside of Boston thinks they overpaid for Kyrie.

Boston may not have leverage but neither does Cleveland.

They want assets for now and the future. Nobody can give them a high lottery pick outside of the Knicks.

Fail the physical it's fine. Boston wasn't doing this trade for next year. They were doing it for 2-3 years from now.

Cleveland can take Brogdon and Middleton and be better next year then.

Thomas was a fan favorite but he wasn't going to take a 3 year 90 million contract from Boston he wanted 5 years supermax.
He will get his money from Philly or elsewhere now.

If I'm Cleveland and I know LeBron is leaving I don't think it's the end of the world to just try calling Kyrie's bluff and see how the year goes. Then you sell to him he's the face of the franchise after LeBron leaves and still has Love, TT and the rest of their supporting cast to prove he's the man. I'd think with how putrid the east is that a Kyrie, Love, Thompson led team with JR and co. can be a top 4 seed if Kyrie is who he thinks he is.

I always thought the X factor in this trade was whatever that Brooklyn pick ends up being. If it's top 3 then Cavs made a great haul, if it was later then Celtics cashed in at the right time. My reasoning for why this hurts Boston more like I said is that you've basically destroyed your franchises relationship with the guy who is hugely responsible for their big jump the year prior and who you'll need if you want to replicate it this year.

 

[Trueblue25]

Lol if cleveland rescinds, Boston will have crowder and a draft pick out for another quality option by next week. There's no stopping Ainge now, and Cleveland will just be optioning for less or an angry Kyrie.


Let the domino's fall, the Celtics send their regards.

 

[Alsacs]

Danny Ainge has done nothing but praise IT? Nothing?

Nothing?

Since he traded him was my point.

I guess that context wasn't obvious.
My point was he has praised him since he traded him he didn't trash him on the way out.

 

[Alsacs]

If I'm Cleveland and I know LeBron is leaving I don't think it's the end of the world to just try calling Kyrie's bluff and see how the year goes. Then you sell to him he's the face of the franchise after LeBron leaves and still has Love, TT and the rest of their supporting cast to prove he's the man. I'd think with how putrid the east is that a Kyrie, Love, Thompson led team with JR and co. can be a top 4 seed if Kyrie is who he thinks he is.

I always thought the X factor in this trade was whatever that Brooklyn pick ends up being. If it's top 3 then Cavs made a great haul, if it was later then Celtics cashed in at the right time. My reasoning for why this hurts Boston more like I said is that you've basically destroyed your franchises relationship with the guy who is hugely responsible for their big jump the year prior and who you'll need if you want to replicate it this year.

Kyrie doesn't trust Gilbert.

He wants out of Cleveland.
If the Cavs want to fail the physical then fail the physical.

Boston should call their bluff. Isaiah is gone no matter what fine.

Boston isn't winning next year. So they will move on.

Cleveland can take the Bucks offer.

 

[Alsacs]

Cleveland wants the pick.

If they wanted the best package of players they would have taken the Milwaukee offer. They are trying to get more out of Boston.

So I say fail the physical. Take Brogdon/Middleton.

 

[Ward]

Kyrie doesn't trust Gilbert.

He wants out of Cleveland.
If the Cavs want to fail the physical then fail the physical.

Boston should call their bluff. Isaiah is gone no matter what fine.

Boston isn't winning next year. So they will move on.

Cleveland can take the Bucks offer.

If Kyrie is leaving because of Gilbert then yea get rid of him. But if Thomas effectiveness is significantly hindered by his hip this year then this isn't a good trade for Cleveland. That version of IT isn't going to really come close to making up for what they lost in Kyrie and they'd effectively be punting their franchise's last potential year of LeBron. Which if that's your approach then they should look into what a franchise would give up for a season of mercenary LeBron.

I think you're really underselling IT contributions to the Celtics success. They can't just lose their best player and guy who carried them for stretches to a 1 seed and ECF with nothing in return and not have it make a big impact on things.

 

[Alsacs]

If Kyrie is leaving because of Gilbert then yea get rid of him. But if Thomas effectiveness is significantly hindered by his hip this year then this isn't a good trade for Cleveland. That version of IT isn't going to really come close to making up for what they lost in Kyrie and they'd effectively be punting their franchise's last potential year of LeBron. Which if that's your approach then they should look into what a franchise would give up for a season of mercenary LeBron.

I think you're really underselling IT contributions to the Celtics success. They can't just lose their best player and guy who carried them for stretches to a 1 seed and ECF with nothing in return and not have it make a big impact on things.

IT was Iverson like last year.

He was tremendous offensively. He just isn't going to be as good as last year again. The team had no other scoring options outside of Bradley.
With Hayward/Tatum and Brown developing they have more options now.
The team won't be better without IT but they will survive and be fine.
IT was 27-28 years old going to be 28-29 and gets beaten up and hammered a lot.

The guy wanted a max. Boston wasn't giving him 30+ million for 4-5 years.

If the trade is rescinded he will rehab and come back and finish the year to save his value for FA.
Ainge isn't going to give more when people nationally already think he overpaid.

 

[Melancer46]

I have a hard time seeing this trade get voided ultimately. Like Alsacs said, Cleveland was taking this trade offer for the Brooklyn pick. That's simply something that Milwaukee cannot offer.

The only real alternative I could see is giving Phoenix another chance to offer up Josh Jackson or something but I think this trade ultimately ends up going through.

 

[MSOrange]

Cavaliers reportedly weighing trade options

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Since he traded him was my point.

I guess that context wasn't obvious.
My point was he has praised him since he traded him he didn't trash him on the way out.

Didn't say he did. I don't think it matters though. The act of the trade is way more significant than any words that happen after.