NBA Thread 2019-20 Season

[Day2]

Like 1993-2001 Shaq that was in his 20s didn’t take games off. He just had a few unlucky injuries in the middle years of that stretch.

But after that he did. And if you were living in LA at the time, you heard him talk about it. How the goal was to be healthy for the playoffs.

 

[Knicks411]

It’s already a rule for nationally televised games.

Here’s my question: Why is this only a debate for basketball? Nobody says anything when players rest in baseball and hockey.

I think for a few reasons

1) In baseball it is somewhat expected, basically no one plays 162 games. There's a game nearly every day. Plus, teams play multiple game series, if Mike Trout sits out Friday night, theres a game Saturday and Sunday.
2) The NBA is way more of a star driven league.

 

[OrangeDW]

But after that he did. And if you were living in LA at the time, you heard him talk about it. How the goal was to be healthy for the playoffs.

Yeah, in his last few Lakers years. But a lot of that was injuries, not rest. He famously said something like “I got hurt on company time so I’m healing on company time.”

 

[OrangeDW]

Harden took 41 shots and 22 3’s. How could anyone enjoy playing with him?

 

[Knicks411]

Harden took 41 shots and 22 3’s. How could anyone enjoy playing with him?

I think last night he kinda had to. They were down a ton of guys, Ben McLemore and Austin Rivers each played nearly 40 minutes!

Devonte Graham has really turned himself into something. Killed the Knicks last night; 9 threes!

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Right now, the Blazers and Carmelo Anthony need each other

The arrangement between Carmelo Anthony and Portland isn't flawless, but timing and circumstances make it logical.

www.espn.com

 

[moqui]

Why wasn’t load management an issue for Michael Jordan, Kareem, Magic Era?

the same reason efg%, ts%, ws, per, etc weren't

 

[moqui]

Load Management Leonard sits again, Clips lose to lowly Pelicans.

I’d be heated if I was a Clips fan and bought tickets and this guy was just hanging out that night.

as a clips fan, let me tell you we don't mind
bev, trez & sweet lou usually are worth the price of admission even when one of the headliners is out

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Dwight Howard's reaction to Danny Green's one-handed putback slam is gold, as is his cool coif.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Dwight Howard's reaction to Danny Green's one-handed putback slam is gold, as is his cool coif.

Didn't take long for tweeters to react to Green's highlight by bringing up the time Danny teabagged Greg Paulus in a 2008 Carolina-Duke game.

 

[MikeSU02]

Why wasn’t load management an issue for Michael Jordan, Kareem, Magic Era?
It just reinforces the belief the regular season really doesn’t matter.
Everyone should take less money owners/players reduce the season and the product becomes better.
Sitting out if a player isn’t healthy is fine but if it’s just scheduled rest it’s a joke.

MJ took 1.5 years off in the middle of his prime. Kareem had to start yoga to extend his career. Magic obviously retired early and, I think we can all agree, wasn't exactly a force on defense during his playing time.

The guys in the 80s weren't exactly in tip top shape. You should know that (and I know you do) extremely well as a Celtics fan with Bird (and I love Bird). These guys are monsters now, comparatively.

Guys now are in way better shape and have to run way more than they did in the 80s. Maybe the game was more physical back then in a grab and clutch and hard foul sort of way, but not nearly in rotations and distance traveled during a game.

To your point about regular season / playoffs - I think everyone realizes that killing all back to backs and/or reducing the number of games to somewhere between 70-75 is the right thing to do.

The issue with the complaints about sitting out a healthy player is that you can't say "well, we sat X player this game because our magic 8 ball said he would tear his MCL in 20 games if we didn't". So you can't argue all the injuries that haven't occurred. However, I think after last year, it's safe to say that you're going to take 60 regular season games from Kawhi and a title versus 80 games and no title. I also think with KD's injury, no star player is really going to chance it.

Finally, is this that big an issue outside of Kawhi? It just seems like every time Kawhi sits, it's considered a systemic issue across all teams. And Kawhi has a chronic injury. He's going to do this until he retires. If you sign him, you sign up for this, period. But you are also getting arguably the best two way player in the league when he's on.

 

[OrangeDW]

MJ took 1.5 years off in the middle of his prime. Kareem had to start yoga to extend his career. Magic obviously retired early and, I think we can all agree, wasn't exactly a force on defense during his playing time.

The guys in the 80s weren't exactly in tip top shape. You should know that (and I know you do) extremely well as a Celtics fan with Bird (and I love Bird). These guys are monsters now, comparatively.

Guys now are in way better shape and have to run way more than they did in the 80s. Maybe the game was more physical back then in a grab and clutch and hard foul sort of way, but not nearly in rotations and distance traveled during a game.

To your point about regular season / playoffs - I think everyone realizes that killing all back to backs and/or reducing the number of games to somewhere between 70-75 is the right thing to do.

The issue with the complaints about sitting out a healthy player is that you can't say "well, we sat X player this game because our magic 8 ball said he would tear his MCL in 20 games if we didn't". So you can't argue all the injuries that haven't occurred. However, I think after last year, it's safe to say that you're going to take 60 regular season games from Kawhi and a title versus 80 games and no title. I also think with KD's injury, no star player is really going to chance it.

Finally, is this that big an issue outside of Kawhi? It just seems like every time Kawhi sits, it's considered a systemic issue across all teams. And Kawhi has a chronic injury. He's going to do this until he retires. If you sign him, you sign up for this, period. But you are also getting arguably the best two way player in the league when he's on.

I agree with killing all back to backs. That’s just common sense, IMO. Pretty tough for even the youngest and in the best shape players to play hard and then come back the next day and have their legs and be at their best.

 

[Knicks411]

I agree with killing all back to backs. That’s just common sense, IMO. Pretty tough for even the youngest and in the best shape players to play hard and then come back the next day and have their legs and be at their best.

It's unbelievable to think it wasnt that long ago we had some 4 games in 5 nights

 

[Day2]

Just want to point out that Leonard is missing his third straight game tonight. So, I don’t know, maybe he’s actually dealing with something and not playing hooky to spite all you superfans.

 

[OrangeDW]

Just want to point out that Leonard is missing his third straight game tonight. So, I don’t know, maybe he’s actually dealing with something and not playing hooky to spite all you superfans.

I mean...if he’s got a chronic condition, then it makes sense. I think the Sixers have been pretty smart with Embiid.

I remember talk about Greg Oden back in the day about just let him sit out for a year or two - and then manage his games. It’s unfortunate that didn’t work out.

Thats basically what happened with Grant Hill, and he was able to come back and be productive.

Certainly gotta be smart about managing guys with a chronic injury or something.

The guys who are healthy but just resting a day...eh. Though if you get rid of back to backs, that probably largely gets rid of that.

 

[Alsacs]

This happened 15 years ago today.

I remember watching Syracuse playing Memphis during the game and then the studio showing the highlight of this and my buddies and I immediately switched to this incident.

Most of us were probably watching Hakim and GMac beating Memphis during this game.

 

[Alsacs]

Carmelo is going to wear Kevin Duckworth’s old jersey number for the Blazers.

 

[Melancer46]

Giannis watch: His stats this year are literally unprecedented in NBA history and he's become a credible threat from the 3 point line and a legitimately good threat from mid-range BUT

His FT% is down to 62% on the year after hovering around 75% every other year and he leads the NBA with 105 airballed free throws so far this year (slight exaggeration but only slight).

 

[Knicks411]

Carmelo is going to wear Kevin Duckworth’s old jersey number for the Blazers.

Robert Parish to me. My buddy had the Duckworth pull as well, for some reason I don't remember that.

Giannis watch: His stats this year are literally unprecedented in NBA history and he's become a credible threat from the 3 point line and a legitimately good threat from mid-range BUT

His FT% is down to 62% on the year after hovering around 75% every other year and he leads the NBA with 105 airballed free throws so far this year (slight exaggeration but only slight).

Obviously not to knock Giannis or anything, the guy is unreal, but I read a piece from someone at the Athletic laying out what is easy enough for anyone to see; due to the pace and style of the game now, there are more stats (points, reb, ast) etc available to guys. Seems like every team has at least one guy with a ridiculous stat line. That said, 30-14-6 is insane. And here's another one; James Harden is averaging 39 points a game.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Robert Parish to me. My buddy had the Duckworth pull as well, for some reason I don't remember that.



Obviously not to knock Giannis or anything, the guy is unreal, but I read a piece from someone at the Athletic laying out what is easy enough for anyone to see; due to the pace and style of the game now, there are more stats (points, reb, ast) etc available to guys. Seems like every team has at least one guy with a ridiculous stat line. That said, 30-14-6 is insane. And here's another one; James Harden is averaging 39 points a game.

Yeah, but, Harden's a turd.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, but, Harden's a turd.

Hot take that somebody who hates the modern NBA would say, but I agree with: 1988 Jordan would average 45 in today’s game.

 

[Knicks411]

Hot take that somebody who hates the modern NBA would say, but I agree with: 1988 Jordan would average 45 in today’s game.

I was thinking about this recently actually. In 87 he averaged 37.1 (that was a few years before I followed sports and it just blew my mind someone could score 37 a game when I read about it growing up).
Something I didn't know until I just looked it up; the 87 Bulls played at the slowest pace in the league, about 93 possessions per game. Last year the Rockets were also near the bottom of the league, around 98 possessions per game.

So I think if you brought Jordan forward to today, he would be picking up a few possessions a game, not exactly worth a lot, but not nothing. But the biggest thing you would be the way the game is officiated, I have to assume that like Harden, Jordan would be absolutely living at the line. It also blows my mind that Jordan scored 37 points per game that year and made 12 three pointers all season. (The bulls made 78 all season as a team. They took 299 as a team. Harden took 3.4x as many himself last year.

I know you were half joking, but like I said, I was wondering it myself. Something working against Jordan would be I think defenses now are overall better. God, the rest of that Bulls team was such garbage. Realistically though, Harden is about maxing out usage and efficiency, I am not sure how much more anyone could really score than him.

 

[OrangeDW]

I was thinking about this recently actually. In 87 he averaged 37.1 (that was a few years before I followed sports and it just blew my mind someone could score 37 a game when I read about it growing up).
Something I didn't know until I just looked it up; the 87 Bulls played at the slowest pace in the league, about 93 possessions per game. Last year the Rockets were also near the bottom of the league, around 98 possessions per game.

So I think if you brought Jordan forward to today, he would be picking up a few possessions a game, not exactly worth a lot, but not nothing. But the biggest thing you would be the way the game is officiated, I have to assume that like Harden, Jordan would be absolutely living at the line. It also blows my mind that Jordan scored 37 points per game that year and made 12 three pointers all season. (The bulls made 78 all season as a team. They took 299 as a team. Harden took 3.4x as many himself last year.

I know you were half joking, but like I said, I was wondering it myself. Something working against Jordan would be I think defenses now are overall better. God, the rest of that Bulls team was such garbage. Realistically though, Harden is about maxing out usage and efficiency, I am not sure how much more anyone could really score than him.

Thing is, if Jordan played under these conditions I have no doubt he’d be a great three point shooter. He had a great stroke. Who the hell plays now that is a great shooter from 18 and that’s it? He’d be hitting all kinds of 3s in this era. He didn’t need to back then. He did what he had to do in that era to win.

* I was a way too emotional Lakers and Magic Johnson fan who was bitter as hell that MJ took his spot as the best player and beat us in the ‘91 finals, and my dad’s(and by default my second fav.) Barkley led Sixers also got booted from the playoffs by Mike in a season where they had a real shot and Barkley arguably could’ve been MVP. And all the other kids who didn’t know squat about basketball were talking about Jordan which just pissed me off more. I didn’t root for Mike until 97(I hated Utah so much), so I’m not some biased Mike fanboy.

 

[Knicks411]

Thing is, if Jordan played under these conditions I have no doubt he’d be a great three point shooter. He had a great stroke. Who the hell plays now that is a great shooter from 18 and that’s it? He’d be hitting all kinds of 3s in this era. He didn’t need to back then. He did what he had to do in that era to win.

* I was a way too emotional Lakers and Magic Johnson fan who was bitter as hell that MJ took his spot as the best player and beat us in the ‘91 finals, and my dad’s(and by default my second fav.) Barkley led Sixers also got booted from the playoffs by Mike in a season where they had a real shot and Barkley arguably could’ve been MVP. And all the other kids who didn’t know squat about basketball were talking about Jordan which just pissed me off more. I didn’t root for Mike until 97(I hated Utah so much), so I’m not some biased Mike fanboy.

Yup I was definitely thinking about that. I could totally see him playing now, getting it drilled into his head how valuable 3 pointers are, and then taking a million three pointers every day in practice and becoming a 38% shooter or something.

You really need to look at the roster of the 87 Bulls. It's...not good. I guess it answers the question of how you can not even be 500 with Michael Jordan on your roster. would love to see some of the on/off splits for Jordan that year.

1986-87 Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats for 1986-87 on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[OrangeDW]

Yup I was definitely thinking about that. I could totally see him playing now, getting it drilled into his head how valuable 3 pointers are, and then taking a million three pointers every day in practice and becoming a 38% shooter or something.

You really need to look at the roster of the 87 Bulls. It's...not good. I guess it answers the question of how you can not even be 500 with Michael Jordan on your roster. would love to see some of the on/off splits for Jordan that year.

1986-87 Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats for 1986-87 on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

I think good proof of this is his second act: Mike actually shot 43% from 3 in ‘96 and 37% in ‘97. Completely different style of play, but yeah if the 3 was the goal instead of the post up turnaround fade-away J? We know what would’ve happened...he would’ve shot a lot more 3s and made a lot more.

Should also add that Mark Price was my second favorite player for basically 89-94. I was SO salty when Jordan hit “the shot” to knock out the Cavs in 89. I was really young and had arrogantly determined the series to already be over during the stoppage in play before the shot. Still remember exactly where I was standing on the couch in that living room. Mike booted “my guy” in 89(Price), 90(Barkley), AND 91 (Magic), lmao.