NBA Thread 2022-23 Season

[Melancer46]

Yeah I agree - Bud had a rough series but his two stars ch...- froze is a good way to put it - and you can't really put that on Bud.

And froze doesn't even apply to Jrue, who solidified himself as one of the worst All Star playoff performers you'll ever see. He's officially reached Eric Bledsoe levels of play with the Bucks pretty much every postseason.

 

[Melancer46]

Yeah I'm thinking more when those guys froze. But I believe the Bucks bench was on the other side of the floor from where the possession was, maybe its hard to get a TO called there.

Even if they could have gotten it off, I don't think you're going to get a better look than what those guys all had. Giannis could have easily gotten down hill and then just decided not to. Middleton could have shot it off the catch and then just decided not to. And then Grayson was as open as you could ever hope to be for a mid-range jumper and just didn't take it. All three were good opportunities that Bud must have been thrilled with.

 

[Melancer46]

The tweeter is a respected sports journalist (currently The Athletic, formerly SI).

I just love that he apologized multiple times to Eric lol. It really was a pretty good answer; Giannis was pretty forth-coming that entire press conference.

 

[Red Holzman]

That push off by Butler before his game tying shot was pretty significant. Tough no call for Bucks fans, but apparently not controversial.

 

[Orangezoo]

I just love that he apologized multiple times to Eric lol. It really was a pretty good answer; Giannis was pretty forth-coming that entire press conference.

It would be wonderful to see this level of being grounded, honest and wise across spectrum of other sports and non sports.

 

[Melancer46]

Milwaukee need to change things up outside of Bud. Holliday and/or Middleton need to be shipped out while they still have some value.

Lopez had his best and most available season in at least 5 years, but he is 34 so I won't be surprised if he takes a step back next season.

Outside of Giannis, Portis and Allen that team is starting to age.

Like I said after Game 4, they just don't have many levers they can realistically pull. Middleton can opt out of his deal and hit free agency this offseason; Milwaukee may be forced to give him a max contract or lose him for nothing and I'm not sure either of those outcomes are good for Milwaukee.

I tend to doubt Jrue will be moved as he's a pretty important part of their identity, but I suppose their identity could change depending on if they fire Budenholzer. It's even trickier because Jrue is turning 33 in a month and if you move on from him, you're probably doing it to bring back an all-star caliber PG for it to make sense...who are they going to pursue? Trae Young, pretty much the exact opposite player of Jrue? Damian Lillard, who's about to turn 33 as well? Fred VanVleet, who's a bit younger but also a significant downgrade? I think there's some semblance of a chance they could make a good enough offer for Trae or Dame if those two play hardball with their current teams, but it's probably a long shot. And I'm not sure swapping Jrue for FVV makes much sense aside from "They have to do something".

Brook is a free agent and was maybe their 2nd best player for most of the season and arguably their best player in the Miami series, but he just turned 35 and has been played off the floor in prior postseasons.

If they let Middleton or Brook walk, they'll have pretty much no cap space to replace them so those are just straight up massive downgrades.

They don't have a pick until the late 50s in this year's draft, so they won't be getting an influx of talent there either.

Bobby Portis should probably be shopped, but he's the 2nd most popular player on the team and it will look pretty terrible if they trade him after he took what was perceived to be a massive discount to come back.

 

[Melancer46]

That push off by Butler before his game tying shot was pretty significant. Tough no call for Bucks fans, but apparently not controversial.

It was pretty blatant, but there's almost always pushoffs in those situations and they never call them against the offensive player. I was honestly surprised he didn't get an and-1 since he tried to flop on it too. I can't be too mad about that; by the end, I wanted Milwaukee to lose.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Like I said after Game 4, they just don't have many levers they can realistically pull. Middleton can opt out of his deal and hit free agency this offseason; Milwaukee may be forced to give him a max contract or lose him for nothing and I'm not sure either of those outcomes are good for Milwaukee.

I tend to doubt Jrue will be moved as he's a pretty important part of their identity, but I suppose their identity could change depending on if they fire Budenholzer. It's even trickier because Jrue is turning 33 in a month and if you move on from him, you're probably doing it to bring back an all-star caliber PG for it to make sense...who are they going to pursue? Trae Young, pretty much the exact opposite player of Jrue? Damian Lillard, who's about to turn 33 as well? Fred VanVleet, who's a bit younger but also a significant downgrade? I think there's some semblance of a chance they could make a good enough offer for Trae or Dame if those two play hardball with their current teams, but it's probably a long shot. And I'm not sure swapping Jrue for FVV makes much sense aside from "They have to do something".

Brook is a free agent and was maybe their 2nd best player for most of the season and arguably their best player in the Miami series, but he just turned 35 and has been played off the floor in prior postseasons.

If they let Middleton or Brook walk, they'll have pretty much no cap space to replace them so those are just straight up massive downgrades.

They don't have a pick until the late 50s in this year's draft, so they won't be getting an influx of talent there either.

Bobby Portis should probably be shopped, but he's the 2nd most popular player on the team and it will look pretty terrible if they trade him after he took what was perceived to be a massive discount to come back.

Yikes. I didn't realize Middleton had an opt out.

 

[Melancer46]

Yikes. I didn't realize Middleton had an opt out.

Yep. I believe he has an option for ~40 mil that he can opt out of. And I think he played well enough in this series to solidify option out unless he just wants to do the Bucks a solid.

 

[Knicks411]

Yep. I believe he has an option for ~40 mil that he can opt out of. And I think he played well enough in this series to solidify option out unless he just wants to do the Bucks a solid.

Player option for $40.4. He's been banged up enough the last few years where he probably should opt out and sign back with the Bucks? Are there any contenders that really have the cap space? Maybe Dallas if they let Kyrie go.

 

[Melancer46]

Player option for $40.4. He's been banged up enough the last few years where he probably should opt out and sign back with the Bucks? Are there any contenders that really have the cap space? Maybe Dallas if they let Kyrie go.

Based on Spotrac's "Projected Practical Cap Space" numbers, the following seem to have a chance at getting close to $40 mil:

• Houston - Been rumored to be trying to bring Harden back, but their projected cap space is over $60 million so maybe there's a world where they could figure out a way to get both Harden and Middleton. Seems unlikely though but if they miss out on Harden, they could theoretically pivot towards Middleton.
• Orlando - Their GM is the guy that traded for Middleton in Milwaukee, so there's a chance.
• San Antonio - Seems unlikely given the state of their franchise.
• Utah - Seems unlikely to me, but maybe our resident Jazz fan feels differently.
• Oklahoma City - I suppose if OKC feels like they're ready to make the jump, they could try to make a splash signing, but I doubt it.
• Detroit - Middleton's original team; they obviously had a horrendous season but they were dealing with a lot of injuries too. Still, seems like an unlikely match.
• Charlotte - stretching here as I think they top out closer to $30 mil barring finding a taker for Hayward or something.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Giannis had a tough game even tho he had huge production. But Bud has to go. Losing games where Jimmy Buckets is climbing a mountaing back is unacceptable. They had to bounce Doug from MJ, Riley was the one that landed with Magic and Kareem, etc. Coaching matters.

Giannis with Bud, Luka with Kidd, etc.

Giannis is going to end up like a top 15 guy of all time and Luka needs to win, but his ceiling is super high as well.

People can laugh at the Bucks right now, but they still have Giannis. Will win another 50 some odd games next year and be right back in it.

This is why I love Butler though.

There are very few guys that can win by will power. I can't explain it, but he's one of them.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Based on Spotrac's "Projected Practical Cap Space" numbers, the following seem to have a chance at getting close to $40 mil:

• Houston - Been rumored to be trying to bring Harden back, but their projected cap space is over $60 million so maybe there's a world where they could figure out a way to get both Harden and Middleton. Seems unlikely though but if they miss out on Harden, they could theoretically pivot towards Middleton.
• Orlando - Their GM is the guy that traded for Middleton in Milwaukee, so there's a chance.
• San Antonio - Seems unlikely given the state of their franchise.
• Utah - Seems unlikely to me, but maybe our resident Jazz fan feels differently.
• Oklahoma City - I suppose if OKC feels like they're ready to make the jump, they could try to make a splash signing, but I doubt it.
• Detroit - Middleton's original team; they obviously had a horrendous season but they were dealing with a lot of injuries too. Still, seems like an unlikely match.
• Charlotte - stretching here as I think they top out closer to $30 mil barring finding a taker for Hayward or something.

I think you'd be more likely to snag a 1st rounder from the Jazz.

 

[MikeSU02]

This is why I love Butler though.

There are very few guys that can win by will power. I can't explain it, but he's one of them.

Agree, I just don't think he's good enough to ever get you a chip.

 

[Knicks411]

Based on Spotrac's "Projected Practical Cap Space" numbers, the following seem to have a chance at getting close to $40 mil:

• Houston - Been rumored to be trying to bring Harden back, but their projected cap space is over $60 million so maybe there's a world where they could figure out a way to get both Harden and Middleton. Seems unlikely though but if they miss out on Harden, they could theoretically pivot towards Middleton.
• Orlando - Their GM is the guy that traded for Middleton in Milwaukee, so there's a chance.
• San Antonio - Seems unlikely given the state of their franchise.
• Utah - Seems unlikely to me, but maybe our resident Jazz fan feels differently.
• Oklahoma City - I suppose if OKC feels like they're ready to make the jump, they could try to make a splash signing, but I doubt it.
• Detroit - Middleton's original team; they obviously had a horrendous season but they were dealing with a lot of injuries too. Still, seems like an unlikely match.
• Charlotte - stretching here as I think they top out closer to $30 mil barring finding a taker for Hayward or something.

As long as the Bucks are somewhat competitive financially I would think Middleton would rather stick with them than go to one of the bad cap space teams? Maybe not though.

Orlando could be a little interesting. They started to put things together toward the end of the season.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Giannis had a tough game even tho he had huge production. But Bud has to go. Losing games where Jimmy Buckets is climbing a mountaing back is unacceptable. They had to bounce Doug from MJ, Riley was the one that landed with Magic and Kareem, etc. Coaching matters.

Giannis with Bud, Luka with Kidd, etc.

Giannis is going to end up like a top 15 guy of all time and Luka needs to win, but his ceiling is super high as well.

People can laugh at the Bucks right now, but they still have Giannis. Will win another 50 some odd games next year and be right back in it.

being a Pels fan I think Holiday has been a bit overrated the past few years, no denying he's usually a great reliable defender but he is wildly inconsistent on offense, in all aspects and always has been. he has some really awful games on offense and they aren't few and far between. Not sure I would want him as my primary ball handler anymore either. He's also having to work his tail off on defense which doesn't help. He went from not getting enough "love" to probably too much the past few years. He's also getting older. He and Middleton were shadows of their former selves and all the wings the Bucks went out and got either stink or too old now. Not very athletic. And yeah Bud is as stubborn as they come

 

[Knicks411]

being a Pels fan I think Holiday has been a bit overrated the past few years, no denying he's usually a great reliable defender but he is wildly inconsistent on offense, in all aspects and always has been. he has some really awful games on offense and they aren't few and far between. Not sure I would want him as my primary ball handler anymore either. He's also having to work his tail off on defense which doesn't help. He went from not getting enough "love" to probably too much the past few years. He's also getting older. He and Middleton were shadows of their former selves and all the wings the Bucks went out and got either stink or too old now. Not very athletic. And yeah Bud is as stubborn as they come

Holiday is an incredible defender. Like, incredible. Offensively, hit or miss for sure. (I read he has like a 48% career TS in the playoffs with the Bucks)

The Bucks are a weird elite team because their franchise player isn't really a #1 on offense. He's not a great iso player, and he's not a great playmaker either. He's just awesome because he overwhelms everyone. But it kinda forces Middleton and Jrue to play up a spot offensively. If Middleton is your #2 offensively, and Holiday you're #3 I think you are probably in pretty good shape. But it's not really fair to say Giannis is their #3 offensively. It's a weird offensive team

Even the year they won the title, they were a below average offense in the playoffs. 112.9 offensive rating vs 114.3 league average in the playoffs. But they were, not surprisingly, #1 in defense.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Holiday is an incredible defender. Like, incredible. Offensively, hit or miss for sure. (I read he has like a 48% career TS in the playoffs with the Bucks)

The Bucks are a weird elite team because their franchise player isn't really a #1 on offense. He's not a great iso player, and he's not a great playmaker either. He's just awesome because he overwhelms everyone. But it kinda forces Middleton and Jrue to play up a spot offensively. If Middleton is your #2 offensively, and Holiday you're #3 I think you are probably in pretty good shape. But it's not really fair to say Giannis is their #3 offensively. It's a weird offensive team

Even the year they won the title, they were a below average offense in the playoffs. 112.9 offensive rating vs 114.3 league average in the playoffs. But they were, not surprisingly, #1 in defense.

he is a great defender but at age 32-33 it's a lot to ask to be a lock down defender on the team's best offensive player at the 1-3 spots, and handle a serious load on offense as well. dude is in incredible shape and definitely one of the good guys in the NBA as well. I just think it's beginning to unravel a bit

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Agree, I just don't think he's good enough to ever get you a chip.

A lot of guys aren't until they are.

He's on the downside of his career so it probably won't happen.

Still, getting that Heat team to the finals was a major accomplish. Guys he's played with that are considered better haven't done that.

 

[UpstateSM]

I can't believe Miami is +130 for the series against the Knicks

 

[Melancer46]

I can't believe Miami is +130 for the series against the Knicks

You think they should be bigger underdogs or favorites?

 

[UpstateSM]

You think they should be bigger underdogs or favorites?

I bet +130 pretty heavy. I get NY has home court but I don't think they are on the same level as Miami.

Cleveland played probably the worst playoff series that I have ever seen.

 

[jncuse]

I guess Grayson Allen was too busy sweeping legs at Duke and missed the meeting on clock managemt.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Knicks fans hopefully feel some satisfaction making it further in the playoffs than the guy you didn't trade for, AND being the team that knocked him out.