NBA Thread 2022-23 Season

[Cusefan0307]

What has Dame done again to merit Portland bending over backwards to help him. He has been very well compensated for keeping the Blazers a total non-factor in the league for most of his career. Good player but way overrated. Heard a guy on the radio today say he was better than Isiaha Thomas...huh

They’ve had no front line most of his career though. He did take the Blazers to the WCF a few years ago. He’s basically this era’s Allen Iverson without the headache.

 

[kirbivore]

What was the offer? All I saw was Herro and maybe Robinson.

I did hear that Lillard will cause trouble if they don’t give in. The players do still have most of the power at the end of the day.

Then keep paying him to stay away from the team until a proper deal can be made. More opportunity to see what they got in Scoot.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Grant Williams for three 2nd round picks. I hate the Celtics but love Grant Williams. This is the new NBA. Can't afford to pay everyone.

 

[djcon57]

Grant Williams and Kyrie? I love Luka, but no way am I pulling for that team

 

[cuseattle]

I don't quite understand it yet, but it looks like fun.

NBA Today to reveal details of inaugural NBA In-Season Tournament tonight | NBA.com

A special edition of ESPN's NBA Today (Saturday, 7:30 p.m. ET) will unveil complete details for the inaugural NBA In-Season Tournament.

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[Capt. Tuttle]

Hockey and baseball aren’t basketball.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't understand Sacramento playing Keegan Murray in summer league. Of course he's going to dominate everyone.

 

[Knicks411]

What has Dame done again to merit Portland bending over backwards to help him. He has been very well compensated for keeping the Blazers a total non-factor in the league for most of his career. Good player but way overrated. Heard a guy on the radio today say he was better than Isiaha Thomas...huh

Dame has pretty much been a model employee and is the best player in team history. They've sucked the last 2 years but prior to that they were a consistent good team. They won 54, 51, 44, 41, 49, 53, 39, and 48 games. (the last 2 total I am projecting out to 82 games)

That said I am not saying Portland should send him to Miami for whatever garbage package Miami wants to offer just because Dame wants to go there, but I think the guy deserves a little consideration.

 

[OrangeDW]

Dame has pretty much been a model employee and is the best player in team history. They've sucked the last 2 years but prior to that they were a consistent good team. They won 54, 51, 44, 41, 49, 53, 39, and 48 games. (the last 2 total I am projecting out to 82 games)

That said I am not saying Portland should send him to Miami for whatever garbage package Miami wants to offer just because Dame wants to go there, but I think the guy deserves a little consideration.

Right, they’ve generally been pretty good with him - usually a playoff team and made a WCF run. Never had a ton to work with - he carried them to better than they should’ve been, for the most part. Kinda like Carmelo in Denver.

 

[Newhouser]

Dame has pretty much been a model employee and is the best player in team history. They've sucked the last 2 years but prior to that they were a consistent good team. They won 54, 51, 44, 41, 49, 53, 39, and 48 games. (the last 2 total I am projecting out to 82 games)

That said I am not saying Portland should send him to Miami for whatever garbage package Miami wants to offer just because Dame wants to go there, but I think the guy deserves a little consideration.

Totally get that but for me he has not earned the right to dictate his exit - he has been paid handsomely and made one WCF where they were swept and frankly he was not good. Very good player but loyalty and longevity while making $$$ seems like the franchise has treated him fairly well, and of course LaRue Martin is the greatest player in franchise history.

 

[Melancer46]

They need a third or fourth team to make this work. If I'm PDX, I want off of the Nurk contract, I want picks and young talent, especially in terms of bigs.

Betting on Dame is a big risk, imo. Small guard, no defense, ties up your cap... you are really banking on an offensive juggernaut can hold.

Pretty sure all the PDX fans want Jodi Allen to sell and reset and get rid of Cronin and Chauncey. If you are rebuilding, Chauncey probably is not the guy you want as HC.

Honestly, all due respect to Dame and his HoF career, they should have probably unloaded him already.

Realistically, unless the other 28 teams are just afraid/not interested in trading for Lillard, I don't think there's any way for Miami to end up being the best offer even if a deal is expanded to include multiple teams. Miami simply doesn't have the assets to get it done if other teams aggressively pursue Lillard. A third or fourth team isn't going to pitch in the value that Miami needs added to the deal for free. Like, at best maybe a team offers up one more first round pick for Herro? It's still a very poor return for Dame.

It sucks that this is how things ended up. Portland had so many opportunities to build a contender around Lillard and seemingly made the wrong decision at every turn. It's not as bad as things were in Washington, but it's similarly been obvious for a few years now that Portland had missed their opportunity to be a contender with Dame.

It also sucks that Dame signed the supermax and is trying to force a trade for pennies a year later. It's bad enough that teams like Portland are incapable of signing stars (or even nowadays trading for stars as more and more guys go the Lillard path of forcing their way to a destination city), but now they can't even trade the stars that they do get for a competitive package of assets? The deck has always been stacked against teams like Portland but it's getting more and more difficult for them with each passing year.

 

[Melancer46]

I don't understand Sacramento playing Keegan Murray in summer league. Of course he's going to dominate everyone.

I assume they'll shut him down either now or very shortly. It's a good opportunity to let him play with the ball in his hands and see if the work he's put in trying to expand his game has paid off. Early returns look good.

 

[Melancer46]

Dame has pretty much been a model employee and is the best player in team history. They've sucked the last 2 years but prior to that they were a consistent good team. They won 54, 51, 44, 41, 49, 53, 39, and 48 games. (the last 2 total I am projecting out to 82 games)

That said I am not saying Portland should send him to Miami for whatever garbage package Miami wants to offer just because Dame wants to go there, but I think the guy deserves a little consideration.

It's nitpicking as it doesn't really matter that much if he was the best or second best, but was he really better than Drexler? Drexler had more all-star appearances as a Blazer and was at least an MVP runner up the one time and got them to the playoffs far more often. Lillard has a couple more All-NBAs.

I don't know; I've always felt Lillard was overrated as a player personally and Drexler was kinda tailing off by the time I started following basketball

 

[Cusefan0307]

Realistically, unless the other 28 teams are just afraid/not interested in trading for Lillard, I don't think there's any way for Miami to end up being the best offer even if a deal is expanded to include multiple teams. Miami simply doesn't have the assets to get it done if other teams aggressively pursue Lillard. A third or fourth team isn't going to pitch in the value that Miami needs added to the deal for free. Like, at best maybe a team offers up one more first round pick for Herro? It's still a very poor return for Dame.

It sucks that this is how things ended up. Portland had so many opportunities to build a contender around Lillard and seemingly made the wrong decision at every turn. It's not as bad as things were in Washington, but it's similarly been obvious for a few years now that Portland had missed their opportunity to be a contender with Dame.

It also sucks that Dame signed the supermax and is trying to force a trade for pennies a year later. It's bad enough that teams like Portland are incapable of signing stars (or even nowadays trading for stars as more and more guys go the Lillard path of forcing their way to a destination city), but now they can't even trade the stars that they do get for a competitive package of assets? The deck has always been stacked against teams like Portland but it's getting more and more difficult for them with each passing year.

JMO, but Drexler was the better player. He got the Blazers to 2 finals. Granted he had better supporting casts, but he also played elite defense.

 

[Knicks411]

It's nitpicking as it doesn't really matter that much if he was the best or second best, but was he really better than Drexler? Drexler had more all-star appearances as a Blazer and was at least an MVP runner up the one time and got them to the playoffs far more often. Lillard has a couple more All-NBAs.

I don't know; I've always felt Lillard was overrated as a player personally and Drexler was kinda tailing off by the time I started following basketball

Yeah maybe.

Drexler has 100 more games than Lillard as a Blazer. Lillard is the teams all time leading scorer, Drexler has him in BBref WS. Drexler 8 AS teams as a Blazer, Dame 7. Drexler made first team all league once, second team twice, and third team twice. (One of the third teams was the year he was traded, I'll give it to him). Lillard made all NBA first team once, second team 4 times, and third team twice. (He was second team in the 19-20 season and was first team in the seeding games, which I now remember is a thing. Maybe you want to bump that up and say he made first team all league 1.5 times or something). Drexler was second in MVP voting one year. He did make the two finals, plus another conf finals. So maybe it's still Clyde.

Something I just noticed, Portland had some weird playoff history with Clyde. They made the finals in 90 and 92, and the conf finals in 91. Outside of that, they only won one playoff series in the rest of his career there, in 85, his second year in the league.

 

[OrangeDW]

Portland would’ve been the worst team in the league the last decade without Dame. Picking him was pretty much the only good move they’ve made.

 

[Melancer46]

Portland would’ve been the worst team in the league the last decade without Dame. Picking him was pretty much the only good move they’ve made.

They had so many assets to play with in this era too. They waited for McCollum's stock to hit rock bottom before moving him for example even though it was apparent pretty much immediately that Lillard and McCollum couldn't win a title together. Had one or two offseasons where they were loaded with cap space and spent it on the likes of guys like Evan Turner. Had tons of draft picks and generally drafted bad players or traded the picks for players that made no real impact. And somehow along the way their GM earned a reputation as one of the best out there; he survived way longer than he should have.

 

[Knicks411]

If you look at the 2015 Blazers, Dame's third year in the league. They went 51-31, lost in rd 1 of the playoffs. Solid season. Dame lead the team in minutes played, made the all star team, he was really good. The rest of their starting lineup that season was: Wes Matthews, Nic Batum, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Robin Lopez. Chris Kamaan started a few games when Lopez was out, ditto Arron Affalo.

That off-season, Aldridge went to the Spurs as a FA. Batum was traded to Charlotte for Gerald Henderson and Noah Vonley. Wes Matthews signed with Dallas. Robin Lopez signed with the Knicks, as did Aaron Afflalo. Steve Blake, who didnt start a game for them but was 6th in minutes played, was traded for Mason Plumlee. Of the 6 guys who played the most minutes for the Blazers in 2015, the only guy who came back for the 2016 season was Dame. Chris Kamaan, who started a few games and was 8th in minutes played, barely played in 2016 and retired. CJ McCollum was 8th in minutes.

So they basically completely turned the roster over, aside from Dame, and still won 44 games and a playoff series the next year. I don't really have a point here, I guess. But the guy was basically the only constant in Portland for the last decade

 

[MikeSU02]

This is A+

 

[shandeezy7]

They had so many assets to play with in this era too. They waited for McCollum's stock to hit rock bottom before moving him for example even though it was apparent pretty much immediately that Lillard and McCollum couldn't win a title together. Had one or two offseasons where they were loaded with cap space and spent it on the likes of guys like Evan Turner. Had tons of draft picks and generally drafted bad players or traded the picks for players that made no real impact. And somehow along the way their GM earned a reputation as one of the best out there; he survived way longer than he should have.

To be fair to my fellow Le Moyne grad, Neil Olshey, the Blazers were pretty bad before he arrived in 2012. They hadn't won a playoff series since 2000. He was responsible for drafting Lillard (perennial All-NBA, future hall of famer) , McCollum (borderline all-star caliber guy) and Anfernee Simons (above average starter that just signed a $100M extenstion). You're right that there were trades that didn't work out and misses in free agency, but Portland is a small market team that is never going to be a free agency hot spot, which is probably a big reason why they held onto McCollum for too long.

 

[MikeSU02]

It's nitpicking as it doesn't really matter that much if he was the best or second best, but was he really better than Drexler? Drexler had more all-star appearances as a Blazer and was at least an MVP runner up the one time and got them to the playoffs far more often. Lillard has a couple more All-NBAs.

I don't know; I've always felt Lillard was overrated as a player personally and Drexler was kinda tailing off by the time I started following basketball

Bill Walton, hands down.

Maybe a short peak, but they got a banner.

 

[MikeSU02]

If you look at the 2015 Blazers, Dame's third year in the league. They went 51-31, lost in rd 1 of the playoffs. Solid season. Dame lead the team in minutes played, made the all star team, he was really good. The rest of their starting lineup that season was: Wes Matthews, Nic Batum, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Robin Lopez. Chris Kamaan started a few games when Lopez was out, ditto Arron Affalo.

That off-season, Aldridge went to the Spurs as a FA. Batum was traded to Charlotte for Gerald Henderson and Noah Vonley. Wes Matthews signed with Dallas. Robin Lopez signed with the Knicks, as did Aaron Afflalo. Steve Blake, who didnt start a game for them but was 6th in minutes played, was traded for Mason Plumlee. Of the 6 guys who played the most minutes for the Blazers in 2015, the only guy who came back for the 2016 season was Dame. Chris Kamaan, who started a few games and was 8th in minutes played, barely played in 2016 and retired. CJ McCollum was 8th in minutes.

So they basically completely turned the roster over, aside from Dame, and still won 44 games and a playoff series the next year. I don't really have a point here, I guess. But the guy was basically the only constant in Portland for the last decade

I mean, the other thing is are we just overrating Dame? Where would you rank him on best players of his era?

Bron, KD, Steph, Kawhi, Harden, Embiid, Giannis, Jokic, Luka, CP3? I mean, I guess CP3 has been starting to tail off.

I'm not even counting the top level of PG13 when he was going toe to toe with Bron. Heck, even Russ for all his faults at least has an argument to have been better than him. I can go on with this group.

I do think there could have been better drafting to an extent and def offfloading CJ earlier, but I think a lot comes down to if Dame is your best player, you'll be good, but probably not getting a chip.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Bill Walton, hands down.

Maybe a short peak, but they got a banner.

The longevity thing though matters. Idk. I have Clyde, Lillard, Walton. At their peak, obviously, Walton is at the top.

 

[Knicks411]

I mean, the other thing is are we just overrating Dame? Where would you rank him on best players of his era?

Bron, KD, Steph, Kawhi, Harden, Embiid, Giannis, Jokic, Luka, CP3? I mean, I guess CP3 has been starting to tail off.

I'm not even counting the top level of PG13 when he was going toe to toe with Bron. Heck, even Russ for all his faults at least has an argument to have been better than him. I can go on with this group.

I do think there could have been better drafting to an extent and def offfloading CJ earlier, but I think a lot comes down to if Dame is your best player, you'll be good, but probably not getting a chip.

I don't know, I think there is a lot of overlapping of eras so it's a little hard to say. I think Dame at his best has probably been one of the ten best players in the league, probably somewhere like 8-10. I think that matches up with his accolades. One first team, 3 second teams, he's been in the top 8 of MVP voting 5 different times. If he's your best player, especially if your second best player is another smallish guard who isn't good defensively, you are not winning a title or really getting all that close.

Bill Walton, hands down.

Maybe a short peak, but they got a banner.

I'm drawing a distinction between best guy who ever played with them and best blazer. Bill walton in 77 and 78 was probably one of the 5 or 10 best players ever, but he wasn't there that long. Lillard or Drexler (I am actually leaning Drexler now) were/are the Blazers in a way I dont think Walton can be just because of how short the tenure was. In the context of how the team/front office treats a trade request, i do think thats a distinction worth making

 

[MikeSU02]

I don't know, I think there is a lot of overlapping of eras so it's a little hard to say. I think Dame at his best has probably been one of the ten best players in the league, probably somewhere like 8-10. I think that matches up with his accolades. One first team, 3 second teams, he's been in the top 8 of MVP voting 5 different times. If he's your best player, especially if your second best player is another smallish guard who isn't good defensively, you are not winning a title or really getting all that close.



I'm drawing a distinction between best guy who ever played with them and best blazer. Bill walton in 77 and 78 was probably one of the 5 or 10 best players ever, but he wasn't there that long. Lillard or Drexler (I am actually leaning Drexler now) were/are the Blazers in a way I dont think Walton can be just because of how short the tenure was. In the context of how the team/front office treats a trade request, i do think thats a distinction worth making

I just don't think Dame ever hit the level of elite guys that you have a shot to win a chip with, whatever that number is each year.

There is no way he's better than Harden was, for example. I know people hate Harden, but dude was a CP3 hamstring away from probably having a chip.

I'll take two years of Walton as the best team member. But maybe that's just me. And, again, it's an example of someone who is at the highest level vs a Dame, who is just below.