ND/ACC finalizing rest of acc schedule

[rrlbees]

Its quite simple and Alsacs refuses to acknowledge that we signed this contract in 2009. From an article, "The deal between Syracuse University and MetLife Stadium, including the game against USC on Saturday and matchups with Notre Dame on Sept. 27, 2014, and Sept. 3, 2016, was announced in August 2009. Since then, Penn State has signed on to play Syracuse at MetLife Stadium in August 2013. And in March 2011, it was announced that the 82,566-capacity stadium will include 10 additional Syracuse football games to be scheduled between 2019 and 2038." A different article from Axe states, "Games against Penn State in 2013 and Notre Dame in 2014 and 2016 are locked in. Ten more games beyond the year 2018 are also on tap." These games against Notre Dame were locked in long before we joined the ACC or they joined the ACC. We can't just throw away a contract, we would obviously have to pay a lot of money to get out of this contract. Money that we clearly don't have, and these games as much as we don't like them create a lot of money. It seems like we may be able to get out of the future games, the 10 that have not already been scheduled. But in two different articles it clearly states that these games were locked in. Its the only reason we are one of the only teams to get ND 2 times in there first 3 years in the ACC. Idk why you continue to look past these facts when you get on your high horse about these games. No one likes these games, I understand that. But we have a contract that was signed well before we got an invite from the ACC. These were locked in games.

Contracts are made to be broken. Break it.

We may have signed it because we were down and needing money. Guess the thought was we'd suck for at least another 20 years.

 

[Stevenson]

I love the Met Life series. Always a marquee match-up that will be on TV and a nice game in prime recruiting territory. Great PR move and great for the program and the fans.

I don't care where we play Notre Dame. Always good to play against college football's biggest draw. Again, great PR move for the program and great for the fans.

CNY has about 20k core Syracuse football fans. We have seen from history that this core will be pissed off no matter what the athletic department does.

So we will play ND four or five times in twelve years. 2 in NYC and 2 at ND and maybe 1 in Syracuse for the non-fairgoers/leaf-rakers, . I have absolutely no problem with any of it.

I have seasons and would rather drive to NYC than Syracuse anyway.

 

[TheCusian]

Contracts are made to be broken. Break it. We may have signed it because we were down and needing money. Guess the thought was we'd suck for at least another 20 years.

That's easy to say without seeing the terms of the agreement. Also: $ issues still abound on the hill, despite ACC money according to some.

 

[Alsacs]

So money in the coffers has no long-term benefits to the fans? Screwing the local fan base to move games closer to alumni who live downstate, many of which make tons more money than upstate fans?

This "no benefit" crusade you've been on is a little much.

If your a season ticket holder what benefit do you receive from Notre Dame's 5 ACC games? The answer nothing.

 

[Bayside44]

We lose alot of money also. We sold our most attractive opponents to "neutral" sites where the opponent would outdraw us and win each contest. Now we're spending money to try to attract the 5,550 additional fans we had averaged from 1990 through 2006 with freebies, discounts, package deals.

The only people who were hurt were the core loyal fans who attended every game at the dome through the dark times and were naive in believing that their faith would be rewarded when the team improved. This has been a multiple team deal over multiple years with ND being the worst offender. Wake Forest, Duke football etc never kowtowed to ND etc and their fans will reap the rewards we sold. ND won the negotiations with us and they will continue to for the unforeseen future through coaching and possibly AD changes. That's sad and sadder yet that some still believe that's the only way we can get high quality opponents to play us. With the LSU deal, I'd think some would realize that isn't true. If USC , Penn St, Alabama etc ever dreamed of playing us in basketball then I'd hope any high level negotiator would realize the leverage we have in helping continue re-establishing the respect the football team deserves.

Not really - the post below on the contract signed in 2009 is pretty straighforward. PSU was a one-one-one deal.

USC, maybe they go to the Dome, maybe they buy it out. We did ND back when we were struggling to survive. It is what it is.

Rewarding some fans verse making a lot more money - the guy in charge will pick money every single time.

 

[Alsacs]

I love the Met Life series. Always a marquee match-up that will be on TV and a nice game in prime recruiting territory. Great PR move and great for the program and the fans.

I don't care where we play Notre Dame. Always good to play against college football's biggest draw. Again, great PR move for the program and great for the fans.

CNY has about 20k core Syracuse football fans. We have seen from history that this core will be pissed off no matter what the athletic department does.

So we will play ND four or five times in twelve years. 2 in NYC and 2 at ND and maybe 1 in Syracuse for the non-fairgoers/leaf-rakers, . I have absolutely no problem with any of it.

I have seasons and would rather drive to NYC than Syracuse anyway.

I agree let's uproot the entire University and relocate to New York City. Are you a season ticket holder? Do you donate to the AD?

 

[Bayside44]

If your a season ticket holder what benefit do you receive from Notre Dame's 5 ACC games? The answer nothing.

If it makes the ACC stronger (which it does) then we are in a stronger conference (which we are).

 

[Alsacs]

Not really - the post below on the contract signed in 2009 is pretty straighforward. PSU was a one-one-one deal.

USC, maybe they go to the Dome, maybe they buy it out. We did ND back when we were struggling to survive. It is what it is.

Rewarding some fans verse making a lot more money - the guy in charge will pick money every single time.

USC WAS N-E-V-E-R I repeat N-E-V-E-R buying that game out. They are playing BC in Boston this year they agreed to the series out of respect for Gross.

These excuses are exactly that excuses. Its a crap deal and Gross wants to sweep under the rug and excuses like yours allow him to without accountability.

 

[KaiserUEO]

My god I couldn't have said it any better. Thank you

good.

so you support my position.

 

[orange79]

What damages do Metlife suffer? If they paid a a signing bonus you return it and move on. Facts are simple ND has stuck it on us. Pitt and BC had games with ND as well both of them just got rid of them. Getting out of a contract isn't that hard if the non-breaching party isn't suffering anything but nominal damages.

I would have to assume (and that's what I am doing - just like you are in most of your posts here, since you don't know all the details) that no one but MetLife and the 2 parties involved know the guarantees and the expected gate. I would think that breaking this contract would be harder than you may believe.

But you go ahead believing that mean ol' Doc Gross got bamboozled by the evil empire. It's not like our future was assured and we needed money, or anything. He should have known we would be invited to the ACC and ND would commit to 5 games a year. Damnit, he should have known!

 

[Alsacs]

If it makes the ACC stronger (which it does) then we are in a stronger conference (which we are).

Then all the weak teams should go to South Bend and only Clemson, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Miami should host the Irish because that makes the ACC strongers as well being ND.

 

[Bayside44]

USC WAS N-E-V-E-R I repeat N-E-V-E-R buying that game out. They are playing BC in Boston this year they agreed to the series out of respect for Gross.

These excuses are exactly that excuses. Its a crap deal and Gross wants to sweep under the rug and excuses like yours allow him to without accountability.

You have no idea on that. Syracuse isn't Boston either. Their respect for Gross could've ended at the NJ state line.

You just don't like it. The deal was done to make more money for a more viable AD.

You obviously want big time football - for what we are, there are certain things we need to do to compete. Clearly selling lower level Dome tickets isn't the answer.

 

[Alsacs]

I swear to goodness I wish I could negotiate against the people fighting me.

 

[Madbiker]

If I was Gross I tell ND you play your basketball home conference games at MSG. This deal has screwed Syracuse beyond belief and to say otherwise is a spin job of Baghdad Bob/RutgersAl proportion.

In fairness didn't Gross make the Meadowlands deal before ND to ACC was announced? He didn't know.

 

[Bayside44]

Then all the weak teams should go to South Bend and only Clemson, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Miami should host the Irish because that makes the ACC strongers as well being ND.

You wanted to know the benefits of ND playing this schedule. Again, it makes the conference stronger (if for no reason that ND doesn't park it's business somewhere else). You just don't like that undeniable fact. Which is fine.

 

[Bayside44]

I swear to goodness I wish I could negotiate against the people fighting me.

My guess is you would throw a tantrum and leave the room.

 

[Alsacs]

You have no idea on that. Syracuse isn't Boston either. Their respect for Gross could've ended at the NJ state line.

You just don't like it. The deal was done to make more money for a more viable AD.

You obviously want big time football - for what we are, there are certain things we need to do to compete. Clearly selling lower level Dome tickets isn't the answer.

If honestly think USC had anything to do with us playing at Metlife you are just fighting me to fight me. This position is a line in the sand if you fight that maybe I just quit the board because you hate my guts that much to fight.

 

[Alsacs]

My guess is you would throw a tantrum and leave the room.

Nah, because satisfying your wishes would be to easy as you would probably take the first offer I threw out. If Gross thought 2-0-2 in 2009 was a good deal he was nuts then. He used basketball the entire time to make up for lost football revenue the AD wasn't exactly dying at that time. The deal was crap then and is crap now. However, because its obvious that only Kaiser, Cusian, Htown are the only one fighting without a personal dislike of me I am done with you. When Bees and I agree then I know something is up.

 

[orange79]

Not for nuthin', but making assumptions and then stating them as facts and basing all your arguments on them might not be the way to go. ust sayin'...

 

[Alsacs]

Not for nuthin', but making assumptions and then stating them as facts and basing all your arguments on them might not be the way to go. ust sayin'...

Listen, my opinion is my opinion. The only fact I will say is USC would have played us at the Dome. When somebody wants to speculate otherwise I will lose it. My opinion is known and nobody has given a good defense except atleast I respect Kaiser and Htown's opinions as well. Each has their own opinion I disagree with Kaiser likes the branding with Metlife/NYC and Htown says this was done with a Big East mindset. I can agree to disagree, but people who want to fight me because its me DRIVE ME CRAZY.

 

[orange79]

So I raise a legitimate point and people want to fight this is why I go crazy. When your wrong admit your wrong and its okay. However, defending something when your spinning is not going to change the facts. That DEAL F'ED Syracuse and ND could have done Syracuse a solid the contract was between Syracuse and Notre Dame. What consideration did Metlife give Syracuse? These games were scheduled before the Metlfe deal.

Listen, my opinion is my opinion. The only fact I will say is USC would have played us at the Dome. When somebody wants to speculate otherwise I will lose it. My opinion is known and nobody has given a good defense except atleast I respect Kaiser and Htown's opinions as well. Each has their own opinion I disagree with Kaiser likes the branding with Metlife/NYC and Htown says this was done with a Big East mindset. I can agree to disagree, but people who want to fight me because its me DRIVE ME CRAZY.

I guess it drives me crazy when you have an 'opinion' and if someone doesn't agree with you, then they're wrong.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Listen, my opinion is my opinion. The only fact I will say is USC would have played us at the Dome. When somebody wants to speculate otherwise I will lose it. My opinion is known and nobody has given a good defense except atleast I respect Kaiser and Htown's opinions as well. Each has their own opinion I disagree with Kaiser likes the branding with Metlife/NYC and Htown says this was done with a Big East mindset. I can agree to disagree, but people who want to fight me because its me DRIVE ME CRAZY.

relax Al, i think at the end of the day everyone will agree that you have a strong position.

and its not often we see an out of town alumnus (i believe you are) fighting for the locals.

tell those leaf-rakers to stiff the paperboy, cobble together a few nickels and buy you a beer.

 

[Chip]

We lose alot of money also. We sold our most attractive opponents to "neutral" sites where the opponent would outdraw us and win each contest. Now we're spending money to try to attract the 5,550 additional fans we had averaged from 1990 through 2006 with freebies, discounts, package deals.

I think these are 2 separate issues though. The only home game we sold to a neutral site was USC.

Penn State was truly a neutral game for both sides. Sure they had more people there, but when the deal was signed as a 1-1-1, everyone thought it was fair. Somehow it ultimately was lumped in with the possible Dome games we gave away, especially now that the back end of the home and home might be cancelled.

Notre Dame was a take it or leave it. There was never a conversation about a 4 game series in Syracuse and South Bend. It was NYC and South Bend, or play someone else. If we knew then what we knew now, we would have not scheduled that series. And I'm sure it was complicated to get out of it.

LSU is coming to the Dome. I think that shows we're moving back in the right direction with attracting big opponents. Being in a Power 5 conference helps us do that. I remain skeptical that the rest of the NYC games that were loosely announced for the future, will ever happen.

The 2nd issue (attracting of the 5,550 additional fans), in my opinion, runs a lot deeper than NYC. The program flatlined and is only now at the point that they were in 2004 when things started their descent. They've done nothing to change the premium pricing model, which leaves giant holes in the middle of the field. And for most of that period, we were stuck in a completely uninteresting conference.

 

[Todd Gack]

If your a season ticket holder what benefit do you receive from Notre Dame's 5 ACC games? The answer nothing.

Right or wrong, ND is in the top three biggest games of every Saturday. Why not be a part of it? I remember little about my international relations classes, but I do remember this maxim: "The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Notre Dame is stronger than us. They certainly must've said, "Play us in NYC or we'll move on." There are a bunch of "pros" for playing them there -- but at the top of the list: What if we win?

Side note: I don't think I'm alone in engaging in pop pscyhology with posters here, but the way you dig in, Alsacs, I have to know if you're a local or not. Same with Kaiser -- with whom I agree on this issue, but is a queen on the "more orange" one.

 

[TheCusian]

If your a season ticket holder what benefit do you receive from Notre Dame's 5 ACC games? The answer nothing.

There is no immediate benefit to the season ticket holder. Sometimes, in life you have to swallow less than ideal now for the better later (like eating your vegetables ). There are tons of long-term benefits for the league, SU, $, etc. Plus the deal was already done and we don't know the details. That's why there have been a lot of people saying "meh" ...