NHL Playoffs

[jncuse]

Is there a Western Canada vs. Eastern Canada beef?

Yes. Many Western Canadians do not like Toronto / Ontario or Quebec... but I would say the dislike for each of Toronto / Quebec are for different reasons. Toronto for acting like its the "Center of the Universe" and a bit for its liberal political leanings. Quebec partially for being French but more so because of them doing whatever they feel like, feeling overly entitled and also feeling they are owed something / separatists **.

I would also say that many in Ontario have a certain dislike for some elements of Alberta as it has the most conservative population in Canada (although not all of its people are that way either). As an example right on this board, Cowtown has once suggested that I am not that far from a communist for supporting the Liberal party, which is really silly stuff but is typical Western Canada political drivel. You don't have to like liberals, or like Trudeau (I don't as of now), but to then state nonsense like its communist is just silly.

** I am a French Canadian living in Ontario, but that doesn't mean I support what Quebec does or support their separation rationale. I have no affiliation to Quebec, yet some people have harassed, vandalized, and bullied me and my family in the past (especially around the 1980 separation vote) purely because we were French. I still have one friend who still thinks I want to separate with the rest of Quebec, even if I don't live there and decry it as totally illogical. Other then that he is a good guy.

 

[jncuse]

They had one, but they didn't want to support it. Typical pequistes, they wanted government to carry the ball for them (if you'll pardon the metaphor) - even as they were preparing for another referendum on separation.

Nordiques Move to Colorado

This article was originally published in Maclean’s magazine on June 5, 1995. Partner content is not updated. The writing, in both languages, had been on t...

www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca

You are misrepresenting things. This is very clear based on the info you have picked from the article you have provided. The real issues as indicated in the article were weak ownership which irritated a fan base (a common problem in Canadian professional sports at the time) and the cost issue. It was also tough to compete with many American cities who get government subsidies for infrastructure that for the most part Canadian governments have not provided (rightly so).

Quebec was getting decent attendance and support compared to other American teams-- as was Winnipeg, as was Ottawa, as was Edmonton. And they almost all lost their teams in the 1990's. The revenue to cost structure in the 90's was very different in the NHL for Canadian teams as was the makeup of ownership groups (generally). They did not have large media revenues to offset some of the real cost issues they were facing at the time.

The early to mid 90's (really all the 90's) was a tough time for many Canadian NHL teams not just Quebec. Winnipeg lost its team, Ottawa struggled hard (saved itself in part by going bankrupt) and Edmonton was also exploring options. The owners that held many Canadian teams had nowhere near the wealth outside of hockey or security that they do now to take on losses. In Canada there was not an appetite amongst bigger businesses or media businesses to invest in hockey (or other professional sports).

Remember some of these owners were legacy WHA guys where the investment was quite low -- so when the costs of running a business in the NHL went up rapidly due to escalating salaries in the early 90's it was very difficult for them as they lacked other wealth. It was a double gut punch when the CAD$ would decline in value rapidly at that time as salaries were paid in USD and gate revenues were generally locked in at CAD.

Salary costs were fluctuating rapidly (and rising) , Local TV Broadcast rights were very small compared to today, so most revenues were gate driven and therefore fixed. That's not an easy business model and local ownership groups were not jumping into to save hockey franchises because of it. The only two markets to generally breeze by in the environment were Toronto and Montreal... and even the Montreal franchise value took a big hit at the time.

Of course this all started to change in the early 2000's when the Canadian markets started to effectively monetize local TV broadcast rights (they rose substantially) and gain enough revenues to offset the risks from this cost uncertainty issue. And even more so now where they all have healthy local TV revenues. The Canadian markets are all amongst the strongest in the league except for maybe Ottawa and part of that is on the owner. When Quebec and Winnipeg lost their teams the revenue to cost structure of the league was so different.

This issue wasn't even only in Hockey -- even the Toronto Blue Jays had a hard time getting decent value for their franchise and building in the 90's. The Grizzlies lost there team and the Raptors struggled as well. In the early 90's the Montreal Expos went from a stable ownership group to a local consortium who refused to invest any cash into the team. And we saw what happened with them.

 

[jncuse]

I understand both of these, and I understand what Foligno said, whether I support it or not. I also understand it's going to be a long series, and it would not be good if this was allowed to fester for several games, nobody knowing what was going to happen or when. This way it's dealt with right on the spot, right where it happened, and we can all get on with the hockey.

The bigger problem is the NHL doesn't want to police the things that lead up to fights. There's always been an inverted snobbery in the league about how "it's a real man's game and real men don't need rule books to regulate behavior." At the time of the six team expansion about 20% of the players had a HS education, and that's the pool from which most coaches, scouts, executives, etc came from. The league was run for a long time by dinosaurs. I've never been a supporter of fighting, but it's been in the game for a long time and there's also a lot less than there used to be.

And then there's the point that Perry has been an instigating AH for well over a decade. Everyone I know simply hates him. He could be on the receiving end of another dozen like Foligno put on him, and he'd deserve everything he got.

Perry deserves to get beaten up for the stupid crap he does.
But not for what he did last night. To me its sends a bit of a silly message about the NHL -- I agree with much of what you said in the second paragraph.

I am not upset at Foligno, even if what I think what he did was wrong and a mistake on his part. Some people are making a real big issue of the post fight and whether it should be code or not code. Until fighting is outlawed its a 5 minute penalty and it ends there.

 

[OburgOrange]

You are misrepresenting things. This is very clear based on the info you have picked from the article you have provided. The real issues as indicated in the article were weak ownership which irritated a fan base (a common problem in Canadian professional sports at the time) and the cost issue. It was also tough to compete with many American cities who get government subsidies for infrastructure that for the most part Canadian governments have not provided (rightly so).

Quebec was getting decent attendance and support compared to other American teams-- as was Winnipeg, as was Ottawa, as was Edmonton. And they almost all lost their teams in the 1990's. The revenue to cost structure in the 90's was very different in the NHL for Canadian teams as was the makeup of ownership groups (generally). They did not have large media revenues to offset some of the real cost issues they were facing at the time.

The early to mid 90's (really all the 90's) was a tough time for many Canadian NHL teams not just Quebec. Winnipeg lost its team, Ottawa struggled hard (saved itself in part by going bankrupt) and Edmonton was also exploring options. The owners that held many Canadian teams had nowhere near the wealth outside of hockey or security that they do now to take on losses. In Canada there was not an appetite amongst bigger businesses or media businesses to invest in hockey (or other professional sports).

Remember some of these owners were legacy WHA guys where the investment was quite low -- so when the costs of running a business in the NHL went up rapidly due to escalating salaries in the early 90's it was very difficult for them as they lacked other wealth. It was a double gut punch when the CAD$ would decline in value rapidly at that time as salaries were paid in USD and gate revenues were generally locked in at CAD.

Salary costs were fluctuating rapidly (and rising) , Local TV Broadcast rights were very small compared to today, so most revenues were gate driven and therefore fixed. That's not an easy business model and local ownership groups were not jumping into to save hockey franchises because of it. The only two markets to generally breeze by in the environment were Toronto and Montreal... and even the Montreal franchise value took a big hit at the time.

Of course this all started to change in the early 2000's when the Canadian markets started to effectively monetize local TV broadcast rights (they rose substantially) and gain enough revenues to offset the risks from this cost uncertainty issue. And even more so now where they all have healthy local TV revenues. The Canadian markets are all amongst the strongest in the league except for maybe Ottawa and part of that is on the owner. When Quebec and Winnipeg lost their teams the revenue to cost structure of the league was so different.

This issue wasn't even only in Hockey -- even the Toronto Blue Jays had a hard time getting decent value for their franchise and building in the 90's. The Grizzlies lost there team and the Raptors struggled as well. In the early 90's the Montreal Expos went from a stable ownership group to a local consortium who refused to invest any cash into the team. And we saw what happened with them.

Excellent post. Nailed it

 

[Cowtown]

Yes. Many Western Canadians do not like Toronto / Ontario or Quebec... but I would say the dislike for each of Toronto / Quebec are for different reasons. Toronto for acting like its the "Center of the Universe" and a bit for its liberal political leanings. Quebec partially for being French but more so because of them doing whatever they feel like, feeling overly entitled and also feeling they are owed something / separatists **.

I would also say that many in Ontario have a certain dislike for some elements of Alberta as it has the most conservative population in Canada (although not all of its people are that way either). As an example right on this board, Cowtown has once suggested that I am not that far from a communist for supporting the Liberal party, which is really silly stuff but is typical Western Canada political drivel. You don't have to like liberals, or like Trudeau (I don't as of now), but to then state nonsense like its communist is just silly.

** I am a French Canadian living in Ontario, but that doesn't mean I support what Quebec does or support their separation rationale. I have no affiliation to Quebec, yet some people have harassed, vandalized, and bullied me and my family in the past (especially around the 1980 separation vote) purely because we were French. I still have one friend who still thinks I want to separate with the rest of Quebec, even if I don't live there and decry it as totally illogical. Other then that he is a good guy.

Don't try to tell people in the west - or the Arctic or the Maritimes, either - about how they feel, or should feel, about relations with Laurentian Canada. If you want to offer an intelligent comment on how westerners think or feel, come on out and live here. And I don't mean for a week or two. All this does is confirm why I have you on mute. Later.

 

[jncuse]

Don't try to tell people in the west - or the Arctic or the Maritimes, either - about how they feel, or should feel, about relations with Laurentian Canada. If you want to offer an intelligent comment on how westerners think or feel, come on out and live here. And I don't mean for a week or two. All this does is confirm why I have you on mute. Later.

Great thanks. Could I hang out at your place for a few years?

 

[jncuse]

Excellent post. Nailed it

I am a bit surprised it never happened as Expansion. Their parallels as a market to Winnipeg are very similar (past and current), and I would suspect they could get similar success as a mid level revenue NHL team. I guess the NHL is more keen on them as a relocation site and using the Quebec City market for leverage perhaps for teams to get a little more either in the current market or on a sale.

I'm not going to lose sleep either way if they get it or not, but it would be nice if they got it purely from a rivalry perspective.

There is only one pro sports team that I really want back in Quebec and that is the Montreal Expos. But I am not getting my hopes high for this one -- perhaps to protect myself from any disappointment.

I was listening to Montreal radio last week, and apparently the 1/2 season Tampa / 1/2 season Montreal baseball season is still a thing -- it seems absurd to me on so many fronts.

 

[Alsacs]

I miss playing the Leafs and Habs.
Playing this old Atlantic division teams every game has gotten old.
I am sick of playing the Captials.

I don’t think the Bruins will blow the 3-1 lead because the Capitals have goalie injuries.
The Penguins seem likely next round.

I think Avs-Knights might be the SCF next round.
Lightning are probably the only other team to be favored.
The Canadian division any of the 4 teams could come out.

 

[OburgOrange]

I am a bit surprised it never happened as Expansion. Their parallels as a market to Winnipeg are very similar (past and current), and I would suspect they could get similar success as a mid level revenue NHL team. I guess the NHL is more keen on them as a relocation site and using the Quebec City market for leverage perhaps for teams to get a little more either in the current market or on a sale.

I'm not going to lose sleep either way if they get it or not, but it would be nice if they got it purely from a rivalry perspective.

There is only one pro sports team that I really want back in Quebec and that is the Montreal Expos. But I am not getting my hopes high for this one -- perhaps to protect myself from any disappointment.

I was listening to Montreal radio last week, and apparently the 1/2 season Tampa / 1/2 season Montreal baseball season is still a thing -- it seems absurd to me on so many fronts.

I stopped watching baseball because of the strike in 94 , the Expos could have won the whole thing that year, and eventually left Montreal

 

[CanadianSU]

Say what you want about Price and his contract but when the playoffs come around he’s a gem.

 

[samspann1]

So Kadri gets 8 games, and Wilson gets a slap on the wrist, with a $5k fine? I mean, Kadri is a scumbag is his own right, but Wilson is in another stratosphere.

Meanwhile, Florida goons it up against TB late in their blowout loss. Mason Marchment apparently is a scumbag like his dad. Let's see what Parros does about it.

 

[Alsacs]

 

[Alsacs]

Question for Canadian posters who can’t thess playoff games have any fans in the arenas?
Is Covid doing that poorly up in Canada?
Even a limited capacity seems like it could happen.
Any idea on the timetable?

 

[jncuse]

Question for Canadian posters who can’t thess playoff games have any fans in the arenas?
Is Covid doing that poorly up in Canada?
Even a limited capacity seems like it could happen.
Any idea on the timetable?

At a high level at least for Ontario. The numbers were the worse we ever had in April (the Indian variant was significant), so they took extra lockdown measures effective mid April (for example no indoor dining, that is now extended until June 2nd in Ontario. Golf courses which were open until Mid-April just opened up today -- the fact that they were closed was ridiculous. The restrictions are still fairly significant after some loosening this week -- kids can't even play team sports but can practice in smaller groups apparently -- and I am not even sure scientists are in line with the haphazard stuff that our Ontario government is doing with outdoor activity. In all this, the optics of letting fans into arenas would look bad and contradict everything else. Ontario has put in specific vaccination targets before it moves to a new opening stage over the next 2 months. I don't see fans at Leafs games any time soon.

Alberta and Manitoba had high numbers too recently -- I don't believe they have as harsh restrictions, but they do have restrictions and I don't think they are at the stage of opening the areans. given the other stuff.

In Quebec, they will be allowing 2500 fans into the arena effective May 28 (so game 6 of the series if there is one). They announced earlier this week that they are opening up things quite a bit next week --- bars, restaurants.


Canada was slow on procurement on vaccines, did not have self production facilities. Now the vaccines are rolling in rapidly -- I suspect because the US has hit a bit of wall. Due to the slow procurement and uncertainty Canada initially took a strategy except for the most at risk, to take one dose first and the second one about 4 months later.

It was going slow until about month ago, but it has really picked up. We are now at 50.2% with one dose, and within a month everybody that wants one should have their first dose. But we are only at 5% with 2 doses. In 3 months time the number with 2 doses will be quite a bit higher. My guess is that most provinces are largely waiting until enough people have had 2 doses, and that everyone who wanted a dose could get one before they really ease restrictions.

 

[OburgOrange]

Question for Canadian posters who can’t thess playoff games have any fans in the arenas?
Is Covid doing that poorly up in Canada?
Even a limited capacity seems like it could happen.
Any idea on the timetable?

Ontario is on major lockdown currently. The roll out of the vaccines have been very, very slow. Border closure extended again recently

 

[jncuse]

Ontario is on major lockdown currently. The roll out of the vaccines have been very, very slow. Border closure extended again recently

Vaccines are finally picking up, but as you said they were painfully slow (the Trudeau government crapped the bed on early procurement) -- I suspect it is now picking up because the Pfizer now has some left over to US vaccine hesitancy We finally hit 50% on one dose -- we may have been at 10-15% at the time of the lockdown, and the crap was hitting the fan with the new variant. So the new lockdown started at that time -- with some worthwhile restrictions and some dumb ones.

The land border thing is sort of silly, since air flight coming in and out of Canada is fully open, which is much more risky.

I think in about 3-4 months we will be in a good spot with vaccines. I know my first was in April and my second one is planned in August -- but with the inflow not coming in steadily I would not be surprised to get my second shot by July.

 

[samspann1]

https://twitter.com/oldtakesexposed/status/1396614866702635010?s=21

 

[Alsacs]

Gentlemen’s sweep for the Bruins over the Capitals.

I actually think the Penguins are a better matchup for Boston than the islanders.

 

[samspann1]

Gentlemen’s sweep for the Bruins over the Capitals.

I actually think the Penguins are a better matchup for Boston than the islanders.

First round has been kind of a dud so far, other than Nashville/Carolina.

i expect Toronto to beat MTL in 5 or 6.

 

[ScrabbCuse]

Oilers completely unraveled last night. Down 3-0 now. This season is set up perfectly for the Leafs to make it to the semis. If they don’t, might be riots in Toronto.

 

[Alsacs]

Oilers completely unraveled last night. Down 3-0 now. This season is set up perfectly for the Leafs to make it to the semis. If they don’t, might be riots in Toronto.

Can’t wait hope we get another Leafs-Bruins series.

 

[Cowtown]

Oilers completely unraveled last night. Down 3-0 now. This season is set up perfectly for the Leafs to make it to the semis. If they don’t, might be riots in Toronto.

At the end of the day, Edmonton's problem is the same as last year: no depth. If McDavid and Draisaitl don't get it done, it doesn't happen for them. This is despite having five first overall draft picks in eight years.* They've labored for years with incompetence in the head office driven by the idea their old-timers would help them reclaim their glory days, led by Kevin Lowe's compelling mediocrity as GM and Director of Hockey Operations.

*Edmonton Oilers Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[CanadianSU]

Question for Canadian posters who can’t thess playoff games have any fans in the arenas?
Is Covid doing that poorly up in Canada?
Even a limited capacity seems like it could happen.
Any idea on the timetable?

No fans.
Yes. It’s an embarrassment with the Vax rollout.
Mtl was going to have fans for game 6 but we suck so that won’t happen.

 

[upperdeck]

crazy that Montreal has found a way to go 6 games in a row on the PP and almost 20 min of no goalie without a goal vs Toronto.. thats close to a full game of extra man with no goals..

 

[jncuse]

Go Leafs Choke!
Go Leafs Choke!
Go Leafs Choke!