Non-revenue sports discussion

[Cusefan69]

Heyyyy!
Me: I put the Carter thread on ignore as I was tired of seeing the back and forth.

Mods: We will just cut and paste out of the Carter thread and plop it down into Non Rev sports.

Me: Hey cool what's this Non revenue thread about? DOH!! Its the same kvetching from the ignore thread.

 

[money3189]

Its and educated guess I would wager ... think about it like this ... top attendance getter is UMD at roughly 5K per game. Second is UConn at more than 1K behind ... average is at best 2,500 per game. So assuming that there aren't close to enough games to drive over 3.3 million unique views and most games aren't even on TV.

Assuming we that 25% of the people who care about the team watch live and 75% don't then look at the abysmal TV numbers for the sport. Only 4000 attendees in the title game TV viewership ... What we lose sight of is that 1% of the population is roughly 3.3 million .. 2% roughly 6.6 million ... how many ncaa men's college soccer fans you know? We see that 1% as small but its a large group when you consider the population as a whole.

Here ... only 195K even watched the title game on TV



This is what I mean ... on top of the 195K that watched (including myself) you need to find 3.1 million more invested souls ... not easy to do. Is it impossible? No but difficult nonetheless when you only have 199K viewers (TV + live) for a championship event in the sport.

You lost me at educated guess. I can’t read through all that. I don’t debate hypotheticals.

 

[wfschrec]

You lost me at educated guess. I can’t read through all that. I don’t debate hypotheticals.

Nothing was hypothetical ... I used real attendance and viewership figures FFS.

 

[money3189]

Nothing was hypothetical ... I used real attendance and viewership figures FFS.

Educated guess is not facts. I’m still waiting for you to come up with something that proves that 99% of Americans don’t care for soccer. Did you do a poll or study?

 

[wfschrec]

Educated guess is not facts. I’m still waiting for you to come up with something that proves that 99% of Americans don’t care for soccer. Did you do a poll or study?

I'm waiting for you to show me 3.3 million NCAA men's soccer fans ... see how that works ... I at least am showing you that viewership doesn't even support 1% you keep dancing in the same circle ... good on you.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You said ( it’s a fact) that 99% of people in the US don’t care about men’s soccer or women’s lacrosse. I never got the evidence of that.

Where is the evidence that it is more than 1%?

I like soccer. College men's soccer is barely the same sport as MLS soccer. MLS soccer is barely the same sport as the UEFA leagues. College soccer is really hard to watch. When you have a sport at such a low quality of play, you will not have many fans. There is also no connection or culture that created alumni who are fans. I want SU men's soccer to do well, but I am not taking the time to watch a regular season match and never will.

You can say the same about women's lax. I will watch the title game, but that is it. I don't know how they even call it lacrosse. Not because women are playing but because of the rules dumbing down the game.

If you look at the games on TV and attendance, you could say the same about men's college hockey. There is no interest in it. College sports it is football, basketball (both men and women), baseball, and softball. That is what airs on TV. That is what gets people to show up to watch in person.

If there was more than 1% interest the networks would put big regular season games on TV.

 

[money3189]

I'm waiting for you to show me 3.3 million NCAA men's soccer fans ... see how that works ... I at least am showing you that viewership doesn't even support 1% you keep dancing in the same circle ... good on you.

Lol I’m not disputing that because that was never my question. I’ve said several times that we know what sports are watched in America. No one is debating that. I want to know how do you know if they care or not. That’s been my question right from the start. Been asking since last night.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Heyyyy!
Me: I put the Carter thread on ignore as I was tired of seeing the back and forth.

Mods: We will just cut and paste out of the Carter thread and plop it down into Non Rev sports.

Me: Hey cool what's this Non revenue thread about? DOH!! Its the same kvetching from the ignore thread.

You can run, but you can't hide.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Better shut all the soccer and lax programs down

If we could divert those resources to help level the playing field for revenue sports the let’s do it.

 

[money3189]

Where is the evidence that it is more than 1%?

I like soccer. College men's soccer is barely the same sport as MLS soccer. MLS soccer is barely the same sport as the UEFA leagues. College soccer is really hard to watch. When you have a sport at such a low quality of play, you will not have many fans. There is also no connection or culture that created alumni who are fans. I want SU men's soccer to do well, but I am not taking the time to watch a regular season match and never will.

You can say the same about women's lax. I will watch the title game, but that is it. I don't know how they even call it lacrosse. Not because women are playing but because of the rules dumbing down the game.

If you look at the games on TV and attendance, you could say the same about men's college hockey. There is no interest in it. College sports it is football, basketball (both men and women), baseball, and softball. That is what airs on TV. That is what gets people to show up to watch in person.

If there was more than 1% interest the networks would put big regular season games on TV.

You are saying things I already know. The key word is “care” How do we know that? What source can you provide that says 99% don’t care for men’s soccer? Because I know people that care a lot about soccer but don’t really watch it.

 

[FrancoPizza]

SEC gymnastics meets regularly draw 15,000+.

Isn’t that mainly for the hot LSU influencer chick?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You are saying things I already know. The key word is “care” How do we know that? What source can you provide that says 99% don’t care for men’s soccer? Because I know people that care a lot about soccer but don’t really watch it.

College soccer or soccer? Again where is your proof that is over 1%? You should be able to point to something, anything.

 

[wfschrec]

Lol I’m not disputing that because that was never my question. I’ve said several times that we know what sports are watched in America. No one is debating that. I want to know how do you know if they care or not. That’s been my question right from the start. Been asking since last night. View attachment 227377

So you're arguing with him over a remark he made, regarding a team that you admittedly don't watch playing a sport you don't yourself enjoy? And you do this in spite of the fact that no one watches college soccer to begin with, which while not the silver bullet answer, can still give you a basis of estimate for who cares which is still sub 1% (3.3 million people ish) and this is what you're lathered up about?

15 million people in the US watched the US World Cup game ... that isn't even 5% of the population and was the most watched soccer event in US history and you're all over him for saying 1% when NCAA viewership is a fraction of the number of people who would watch the world cup? Now that's funny and a bit melancholy at the same time. Compound that with the fact that you can't produce something stating a contrarian position and being so insistent he defend himself is flat out bizarre.

 

[money3189]

College soccer or soccer? Again where is your proof that is over 1%? You should be able to point to something, anything.

I didn’t make the statement. I said I find it hard to believe so show me the proof.

 

[FrancoPizza]

You trying to correlate who likes a sport because of how many attend a college game...isnt being serious. Too many other factors that may keep people from attending

We’re asking the wrong questions. It isn’t about who “likes” the sport. Everyone in the country has kids playing pee wee soccer and lax. We lead the world in soccer moms. We are the birthplace of lax. It’s very popular as a fall/spring sport. Soccer and lax are rites of passage in American families raising kids, but that doesn’t translate to fanhood at the higher levels and that’s a HUGE difference. When you get to the college and pro level, the only people who care enough to follow are families of the student athletes (generally speaking).

I’m shocked we even have to spell this out.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This past season no one averaged over 3k per game. Only SIX schools averaged over 2k. Another 26 teams averaged over 1k. Just taking the Top 25 schools the average was 1685 per game.

 

[money3189]

So you're arguing with him over a remark he made, regarding a team that you admittedly don't watch playing a sport you don't yourself enjoy? And you do this in spite of the fact that no one watches college soccer to begin with, which while not the silver bullet answer, can still give you a basis of estimate for who cares which is still sub 1% (3.3 million people ish) and this is what you're lathered up about?

15 million people in the US watched the US World Cup game ... that isn't even 5% of the population and was the most watched soccer event in US history and you're all over him for saying 1% when NCAA viewership is a fraction of the number of people who would watch the world cup? Now that's funny and a bit melancholy at the same time. Compound that with the fact that you can't produce something stating a contrarian position and being so insistent he defend himself is flat out bizarre.

My main issue is why crap on a national chip because football isn’t good and where does the 99% come from?

 

[wfschrec]

My main issue is why crap on a national chip because football isn’t good and where does the 99% come from?

That I agree with, it shouldn't be dismissed. However the problem is you have a national perception to battle ... most college sports fans only really care about hoop and fb ... I feel a national championship in hockey is akin to that of soccer .. awesome we won it but not something a college sports fan boasts about ... like our 2003 hoops title for instance.

Like gmoney and everyone else on this board, I feel it would be great to be seen as a football school again ... it would change the outward perception of our AD. Unfortunately for better or worse the casual fan isn't going to get jazzed over a chip like soccer. I did watch the title game and I support all Cuse athletics but much like HRE I don't watch regular season games or follow them ... I don't have a vested interest and really don't care per se .. that coupled with stats from earlier and I can easily see coming to the conclusion roughly 1% of the population cares ... hell just trying to find viewership numbers is hard enough for NCAA soccer .. plenty for World Cup though which further feeds into the no one cares about NCAA soccer mantra honestly.

 

[money3189]

That I agree with, it shouldn't be dismissed. However the problem is you have a national perception to battle ... most college sports fans only really care about hoop and fb ... I feel a national championship in hockey is akin to that of soccer .. awesome we won it but not something a college sports fan boasts about ... like our 2003 hoops title for instance.

Like gmoney and everyone else on this board, I feel it would be great to be seen as a football school again ... it would change the outward perception of our AD. Unfortunately for better or worse the casual fan isn't going to get jazzed over a chip like soccer. I did watch the title game and I support all Cuse athletics but much like HRE I don't watch regular season games or follow them ... I don't have a vested interest and really don't care per se .. that coupled with stats from earlier and I can easily see coming to the conclusion roughly 1% of the population cares ... hell just trying to find viewership numbers is hard enough for NCAA soccer .. plenty for World Cup though which further feeds into the no one cares about NCAA soccer mantra honestly.

I’m very involved with football in NYS but I wouldn’t devalue a national chip because the football team isn’t doing great. The soccer team has nothing to do with that.

 

[wfschrec]

I’m very involved with football in NYS but I wouldn’t devalue a national chip because the football team isn’t doing great. The soccer team has nothing to do with that.

I totally agree and yes I know you are very involved in NYS football. Inherently I don't think he is intending to trash the championship ... I think like the rest of us he wants to be a football power again and winning a chip in soccer isn't going to scratch that itch. I mean if I'm being honest I would love to be talking about a top 25 football and hoops school with my friends ... most don't want to hear me tell them we beat their asses in soccer because they don't care. Its more of that perception thing for fans.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Isn’t that mainly for the hot LSU influencer chick?

Good lord, is this 1987? Women only have merit based on attractiveness?

Gymnastics is always one of the top draws for Olympic coverage, and now the SEC has actual Olympians competing. The level of competition is incredibly high, making it a strong draw.

 

[upperdeck]

There are a set number of fans who follow a sport
there are a set number of fans who will follow a team
there are a set number of fans who will attend games
there are a set number who will tune in to watch

There is an overlap. In some sports the overlap is large in some it is not.

Volleyball at SU has a small following. Volleyball at Neb has a huge following.

Hockey around syracuse has a decent Crunch presence and a decent HS presence but has that transcended to SU womens games? Not as much

Lax around Syracuse has a big HS following and a big SU following, does that mean that all watch it on TV? I watch most every game but have not been to a game in yrs.

Soccer around Syracuse has a decent HS following and with SU men being pretty good a decent group there.. Most likely though less people watch SU soccer on ESPN+ than do LAX. Its probably the X number that would attend that would also watch. Where as Lax has vastly more that would watch than would ever attend.

College hockey is huge in some areas with crowds of 10-15K in some of those towns, the playoffs and Final 4 are well attended but you go to a game at Cornell and will get a bigger crowd than most any routine game in Boston.

Soccer is big in the US but its the dedicated people attending and watching not the casual fan. Lots of people turn on TV and see a fball/bball game and may not turn the channel but soccer isnt holding them. When the US plays a big game in a town and draws 20-30-40k that might be 50% of the locals that care but fball does it and its 5% of the people who care.

 

[upperdeck]

Good lord, is this 1987? Women only have merit based on attractiveness?

Gymnastics is always one of the top draws for Olympic coverage, and now the SEC has actual Olympians competing. The level of competition is incredibly high, making it a strong draw.

college gymnastics draws peanuts though and the reality is while some big time stars compete most do not. But the same issue happens.. you have those kids who areinto the sport and get few chances to watch and go to a meet. Very few others care about it.. the record SEC crowd of 9K showed up and much of that was based on the buzz and the LSU girl didnt even compete

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

college gymnastics draws peanuts though and the reality is while some big time stars compete most do not. But the same issue happens.. you have those kids who areinto the sport and get few chances to watch and go to a meet. Very few others care about it.. the record SEC crowd of 9K showed up and much of that was based on the buzz and the LSU girl didnt even compete

This whole thread started to say by saying that Syracuse is terrible because sports they're good at don't matter, and now people are systematically trying to point to back that point up. Just incredible.

Also, LSU Gymnastics drew 11,887 to its meet against Florida earlier this year. Utah averaged 15k in 2019-2020.

People care about many things.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

There are a set number of fans who follow a sport
there are a set number of fans who will follow a team
there are a set number of fans who will attend games
there are a set number who will tune in to watch

There is an overlap. In some sports the overlap is large in some it is not.

Volleyball at SU has a small following. Volleyball at Neb has a huge following.

Hockey around syracuse has a decent Crunch presence and a decent HS presence but has that transcended to SU womens games? Not as much

Lax around Syracuse has a big HS following and a big SU following, does that mean that all watch it on TV? I watch most every game but have not been to a game in yrs.

Soccer around Syracuse has a decent HS following and with SU men being pretty good a decent group there.. Most likely though less people watch SU soccer on ESPN+ than do LAX. Its probably the X number that would attend that would also watch. Where as Lax has vastly more that would watch than would ever attend.

College hockey is huge in some areas with crowds of 10-15K in some of those towns, the playoffs and Final 4 are well attended but you go to a game at Cornell and will get a bigger crowd than most any routine game in Boston.

Soccer is big in the US but its the dedicated people attending and watching not the casual fan. Lots of people turn on TV and see a fball/bball game and may not turn the channel but soccer isnt holding them. When the US plays a big game in a town and draws 20-30-40k that might be 50% of the locals that care but fball does it and its 5% of the people who care.

I wouldn't call college hockey huge in some areas. It has a good following in some niche areas. The 4th best average attendance was 6544 this year. Only one school had more than 10k. That being said there are a lot more people going to hockey games than soccer games. Probably about 3x more. Most people outside the niche don't have a clue about the sport. But at least they have a niche unlike soccer.